Need help with floor please!

BADOS · 02-15-2012, 08:22 AM

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum as of today. I hope someone can help me with a floor problem I have. I did a search and found a similar problem, but mine may be more extensive.

I have a 2008 Passport 285RL. I noticed the floor in front of the couch opposite the bar cabinet is getting soft.

I took the camper to a repair dealer and this is what he said, "Normally we remove the vinyl, carpet and underlayment. Once exposed, any rotted floor frame members are replaced and new underlayment is installed etc.

I suspect your underlayment is laminated to foam with a few aluminum cross members. If so, we have to remove the foam and install wood cross members and fiberglass insulation then new underlayment." He said the cost for this would be $ 3000.00.

I am physically disabled and cannot attempt to do the work myself.

Second opinons PLEASE and THANKS. Ken

**hankpage** · 02-15-2012, 08:53 AM

$$$$ Ouch! ..... First let me welcome you to the forum.

Did the dealer say what caused the damage and did the quote include fixing that. From your description I'm guessing a leak that has been there for a while and must be stopped before any repairs are completed. It sounds like the dealer would be making the proper repair but not knowing the extent of the damage I can't comment on the price. (He most likely doesn't know the full extent either until he gets into it) This is probably not what you wanted to hear and is only my opinion, Hank

BADOS · 02-15-2012, 10:09 AM

Thanks Hank for responding. Don't think this was caused by a leak. Called another dealer to get a ball park of between $2,800 and $3,200. He said unfortunately it can't be fixed from the underneath. It has to be fixed by ripping out the floor and some cabinetry. From some research I've done, sometimes it is caused by not enough glue on the wood and foam.

SAABDOCTOR · 02-15-2012, 11:51 AM

Hi there i think i agree with hank! Had to get wet.to rot sure sorry you have to go through this.

Terrydactile · 02-15-2012, 03:15 PM

Does not have to get wet to get soft in the Passport. It has a laminated floor and the layers have probably come apart. Mine has done the same thing in two spots. I repaired mine by adding supports under the floor. Its not really a repair because the layers are still separated but more of a beefing up.

Festus2 · 02-15-2012, 05:01 PM

If the cause of the separation is similar to Terrydactile's, then a repair similar to his might be feasible and carried out by someone who has some carpentry skills - a friend or neighbor perhaps?? If, however, the separation has been caused by some kind of leak, that is a much bigger problem which could result in a fairly extensive and, unfortunately, expensive fix. The source of the leak would have to be found and fixed and then the rotted wood, lino, carpet, etc., would have to be replaced as well.
If the soft spot is nearer to the center of the floor as opposed to the edges, then there is a possibility that it just might be caused by the separation of the laminates and not by water intrusion.
Hard to say without a careful and thorough inspection of the floor and surrounding area........ Let us know how this turns out. Hope you find that the problem is neither extensive or expensive.

Handysam · 02-15-2012, 05:55 PM

I think I would have to agree with Festus, in that the first post noted that the damage was in front of the couch which makes me think the damage is more towards the middle of the floor and not the edge. This would make me think that it's not caused by water damage, although I/anyone could not know for sure without at least taking up the carpet and perhaps the first layer of plywood or laminate. If you could just get the carpet up with a little help for a visual, it may reveal something, also once the carpet is up, you could try and run a couple of long trim screws to pull the ply's together. Just a thought, Good Luck, Happy Camping, Sam

f6bits · 02-15-2012, 06:03 PM

I recall some thread where someone noted that the kitchen floor had some give, and others mentioned that that area wasn’t well-braced. Is there a way to tell if the give is due to delimitation, or full give of the floor?

Terrydactile · 02-16-2012, 04:34 AM

The Passport has very little floor support and relies on the layers of the floor to form a solid layer by being glued together. Imagine if you will, a piece of ply wood that all the layers were loose from one another. It would not be strong but flexable. This is the way my floor had become in a few spots. The floor rests on the two main I-beams and floor joists that are probably 4 feet apart. Not sure about the exact distance without crawing back under it but they are a good ways apart.

I choose not to pull up the flooring because I was absolutely sure it was not water damage and everything is built on top of the flooring. I felt that adding support was my best option. I fastened metal joists hangers to the inside of the I-beams in the area of the soft spots and inserted two 2 X 6 joists in the area of the soft floor. Sorry I don't have any pictures.

If the damage is not from water then I would try to find someone to look at adding support underneath. This sure beats having to pull up flooring, cabinets and anything else in the way.

BADOS · 02-17-2012, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handysam

I think I would have to agree with Festus, in that the first post noted that the damage was in front of the couch which makes me think the damage is more towards the middle of the floor and not the edge. This would make me think that it's not caused by water damage, although I/anyone could not know for sure without at least taking up the carpet and perhaps the first layer of plywood or laminate. If you could just get the carpet up with a little help for a visual, it may reveal something, also once the carpet is up, you could try and run a couple of long trim screws to pull the ply's together. Just a thought, Good Luck, Happy Camping, Sam

It's under the linoleum and not carpeted area.

Festus2 · 02-17-2012, 08:04 AM

What you might consider doing is having a pressure test, followed by a lengthy hosing down of your RV, carried out which then might reveal any possible sources of leaks - windows, vents, etc. If that test doesn't reveal anything, check for any gaps or loose molding on the bottom exterior and around the slides and the slide seals. Check all your caulking on the roof and windows and remove and recaulk if necessary.
If, by then, it appears as though there is no water penetration, then get someone to do a support repair from below similar to the one outlined by terrydactile in his post above. I would try that first rather than ripping everything apart.

CincyGus · 02-17-2012, 10:14 AM

I think what Terrydactile is telling you is the first thing I would do if it were my camper. He is correct that the floors are built with a 48" aluminum frame.

At about 1:16 of the "Construction" video it shows the frame and then mentions that it's a 2" think, 48" on center framing for the floor.

http://www.keystone-passport.com/index.php?page=videos2

I'm thinking and inspection underneath and beefing up the support is the first thing I would try rather than ripping up from above and spending all that $$$$.

BADOS · 02-18-2012, 06:57 AM

I think you guys are right about adding supports from underneath. Can the material that seals in the underneath be resealed easily after you pull it apart to do the fix?

f6bits · 02-18-2012, 08:03 AM

If you’re talking about the coroplast (corrugated plastic - like cardboard), then yes, it’s easy to work with. Mine is bolted up to the frame and gaps are filled with foam sealant.

EDIT: More info…as Festus says below, keep some of it attached. I think you’ll find that you won’t be able to drop all the coroplast, so it’ll line up easily enough. You definitely have to drop it starting at one end of the trailer. In my case, from the rear. The front is hemmed in by my A-Frame for the hitch and my propane line. The spots that are filled with foam will need to be cleared away, then re-sealed with the foam filler found at DIY stores in the building materials department. It’ll probably be a multi-day job, so be prepared to leave the underside open, or find a way to prop the coroplast back up, like with milk crates/cardboard boxes.

As I recall, you said you won’t be able to do the repairs yourself, so whoever does it will be crawling around like an auto mechanic. When I work on mine, I wish I had one of those rollies to lay down on.

Festus2 · 02-18-2012, 08:09 AM

When you start removing the coroplast, I would try to leave a portion of an end or side still attached so that when you go to refasten the coroplast, it will be easier to put back in the right place having at least some of the metal screws still aligned and in place.

Terrydactile · 02-18-2012, 11:44 AM

In my case I did not have to remove all of the underbelly coroplast but had to take it down from both sides from the front to about 1/2 way back. I rolled it up as I went. I had to take down my hard piped LP line and a few of its brackets. It was difficult to put back up by myself but its doable. Would have been a ton easier with a helper. Of course it depends completely on where your floor needs repaired as to how much of it you have to take down. I hope I never have to take it down in the axle area as I can see that would be a lot more difficult.

Don't be suprised by all the wires hanging all over the place. Its a mess under there. I think Keystone uses the covering more as a labor saving device to cover up all the wiring instead of routing and fastening it up as it should be. No one would buy this trailer if the bottom wasn't covered.

Lluker · 06-01-2012, 05:04 PM

Welcome Passport owner, we too have a 2008 Passport 285RLS. Have not had an outing as of yet and hope to by the end of the month. Hope you find a practical and economical fix for your problem with the floor. Good to find another Passport 285RLS owner on the forum.

Terrydactile · 06-01-2012, 06:44 PM

Hey BADOS, curious to find out if you got your floor fixed.

atrochman · 10-12-2013, 06:12 PM

My 2010 27RLSWE Cougar's floor started getting soft in the center after we lived in it for over one year. The floor had grown soft and spongy from the rear easy chair area all the way up to the bed with spot by table sinking over 1" when we stepped on it. It also sank quite abit by the shower. Dealer told me 'it just has to be water damage' (along whole trailer in the middle???), but I never found any evidence of any water leaks. They also told me my chances of Keystone footing the repair bill were very slim as it was almost 4 years old and that the bill was likely to exceed $3000. So, I crawled underneath and took down the underside cover from the back almost to the front and found that there are only 2 real frame supports between the rear living area and the bedroom which had several soft areas in the center of the floor. I found that there was 70" between rear sink and entertainment area which is where the most severe softness was. Floor would sink over 1" when we stepped on it between the table and the sink. It looks like Keystone built the floor using 1/4" plywood on bottom with 2x2 aluminum frame with almost 48" between any inner floor supports, then it fills this in with styrofoam and covers it all with 3/8" top layer of plywood. This is all glued together to provide strength like plywood, but I think it comes unglued after heavy use and gets more spongy and flexible.

So I placed 1/2" plywood strips under floor (slid them between floor and tanks) and braced them with 4 new 2x6 wooden beams which greatly improved the firmness of the floor. The floor still flexes a little which is understandable given the light nature of the trailer, but it no longer sinks 1" like it used to. We still love our trailer (except for this problem), and we plan to take some more round the country trips in it so all the work was worth it to us.

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