200W solar panels

AnolaBob · 04-24-2013, 05:15 PM

Sorry to bring up this well worn topic.
I have been researching solar for the last week and would like opinions on what I can run with 200W. I am looking at a 2 panel/100W system with a 20A MPPT controller. I don't know how many batteries I need yet.

Simply put the DW wants to use the hairdryer and curling iron for 5 minutes. Sirius radio all day, blender in the afternoon. Battery recharge would be good, run the bathroom fan and the water pump as required. Maybe the microwave for a few minutes??
Phantom power for the 5th wheel and thats it.

Can this be done????

f6bits · 04-24-2013, 05:40 PM

Solar, for the most part, is only good for recharging batteries. So the bigger question is what inverter will do the job. 2000 watts would handle a hairdryer or microwave, but part of the trick is that the microwave will have to be plugged into the inverter.

An inverter will draw about 200 amps which is about what two golf cart batteries are rated at for an hour, but you should only pull them down to about 50%. So that's about a half hour.

A very rough estimate is that it takes ten times as long to recharge the batteries with 200W solar on a good day compared to the time you max out the 2000W inverter. Going with that rough estimate is that 5 minutes of hair dryer will take an hour to recharge.

That other stuff you describe (fan, radio, water pump) aren't very taxing.

Maybe some can check my numbers and let me know if I'm on the right track. If I am, then a 2000W inverter with 200W solar sounds like a pretty nice setup.

Ok, just read some good review on a 2000W inverter which doesn't bode well for high load usage:
http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWat...owViewpoints=1
Short summary is that you need very heavy wiring with the inverter very close to the battery bank to hit 1500 watts.

SteveC7010 · 04-24-2013, 05:59 PM

I am presuming that you're planning on doing some serious boondocking without 110vac available. And, no mention of a generator which would seriously change the way you are proposing to use the solar/inverter. Any one of the 2000 watt generators that are popular for camping would drive any of those appliances easily.

Regardless if you are relying exclusively on solar or a generator or a mix of the two, I'd strongly urge you to consider LED conversion for many of your interior lights. Along with your inverter consumption, incandescent lighting will consume a fair chunk of your battery reserve. LED's use a bit less than 10% of the juice needed to drive a comparable incandescent bulb. You can upfit for about $4 or even a bit less per bulb these days. There are a number of extensive threads on the topic plus a good sticky.

I have a friend who went to great lengths to install a solar system that would maintain a bank of four large 6vdc batteries that powered an inverter big enough to run his air conditioner. It's probably more than most of us would want to invest in, but it's a great example of what can be done.
http://everymilesamemory.com/feature/our-rolling-home/
Pat's analysis of living with solar in an RV is one of the best I've ever read. Lots of good info throughout his website.

AnolaBob · 04-24-2013, 07:26 PM

I have a 4000W generator but if possible I would rather not use it. At about $600.00 for the solar panels/controller I hoped it would get things done. If I have to throw an inverter into the mix I might as well listen to the generator if the solar cant do more than the DW hair for the day.

What is the cost of the inverter, rough numbers. And if so will I be able to do what I want. We primarily dry camp only for three weeks at a go.

It's funny some sites say you can do just about anything
With 200W. Gotta love salespeople

Maxzd · 04-24-2013, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnolaBob

I have a 4000W generator but if possible I would rather not use it. At about $600.00 for the solar panels/controller I hoped it would get things done. If I have to throw an inverter into the mix I might as well listen to the generator if the solar cant do more than the DW hair for the day.

What is the cost of the inverter, rough numbers. And if so will I be able to do what I want. We primarily dry camp only for three weeks at a go.

It's funny some sites say you can do just about anything
With 200W. Gotta love salespeople

I have two 123 watt solar panels and a 25 amp MPPT solar charger. I have 4 batteries with about 400 amp hours total. I have a 1500 watt inverter that is connected to the battery bank and wired into a transfer switch. One button press and the inverter fires up and feeds 110v to the unit.

There are amp calculators available to determine your daily usage versus how many batteries and how much solar panel capacity needed. You are probably best to google those terms fill out your daily power consumption. I camped for weeks last year in mild sunny weather and never once used my generator. I use the TV and satellite, toaster, microwave and more. All the things you describe....

Cloudy weather, with some conservative approach to power, we still do not need shore power or generator. Worth the investment IMHO...

AnolaBob · 04-25-2013, 03:48 AM

I will further explore the solar issue based on your experience. 250W worth of panels and 4 batteries, inverter and the MPPT controller

Going to search out info on inverters.

Do to the cost of the duty and shipping buying in Canada seems the only practical solution. I went to the local guy here and he wants more $$$ than buying two quiet generators

Anybody got a reputable solar dealer I could speak with?

Festus2 · 04-25-2013, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnolaBob

I will further explore the solar issue based on your experience. 250W worth of panels and 4 batteries, inverter and the MPPT controller

Going to search out info on inverters.

Do to the cost of the duty and shipping buying in Canada seems the only practical solution. I went to the local guy here and he wants more $$$ than buying two quiet generators

Anybody got a reputable solar dealer I could speak with?

Not sure how far you live from the US/Canada border, but if you live close and there is a "Ship Happens" outlet on the US side, you can eliminate the shipping charges and may be able to cut out the duty as well depending on how long you stay in the US.

I bought a 85W Kyrocera online from a US distributor but wouldn't do that again for the reasons that you mentioned about shipping and duty charges.

Any thoughts about buying your solar equipment and batteries in the US while on a vacation there? Lots of places in Arizona and other "sunshine" states have them at flea markets.

I agree with the previous poster that you would need at least 4, good-quality 6volt batteries (Trojans would be my choice) to do what you are considering.

Also remember that a 200w solar panel will only give you that amount under optimum operating conditions; and in most cases, will function at about 80% or 160w. I would tend to use the 80% factor when determining your power requirements and that will give you a more realistic number.

If possible, I would suggest a 2000w inverter but 1500w would be an absolute minimum. I believe you can also get a 1750w.

There are a number of solar and solar panel sites which provide charts and other information that you can research to determine the best set up for your needs.

My wife has a butane-powered curling iron ----- something to consider along with swapping out all of your interior lights to LED's. I did and the extended battery "life" is significant. Well worth the conversion especially if you do a lot of dry camping.

AnolaBob · 04-25-2013, 12:40 PM

Thanks guys for the info. I will go ahead with the 2000W inverter but I definitely will not do the recommendation on the butane curling iron. That sounds way too explosive. Not the curling iron, the wife. LOL.

Based on the 80% rule, I should opt for a 250W system to get the original 200W service.

One question: Does the inverter not do the same thing as the converter - change the DC to AC? It seems to me they will accomplish the same task. And is it placed between the solar panel controller and the converter??

**JRTJH** · 04-25-2013, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnolaBob

One question: Does the inverter not do the same thing as the converter - change the DC to AC? It seems to me they will accomplish the same task. And is it placed between the solar panel controller and the converter??

No they do not do the same thing. The CONVERTER changes shore power AC into battery charge power DC. The INVERTER changes battery power DC into "shore power" AC.

They essentially do the opposite of each other.

AnolaBob · 04-25-2013, 02:48 PM

Okay they do the opposite, good info. Then how does the power get to the TV and such from the inverter? I see there are outlet plugs in the inverter but I can't imagine you need to run an extension cord from the inverter to the TV. I have a good sized gap in my brain as I can't figure out the configuration between all the components.

Please advise.

Festus2 · 04-25-2013, 03:03 PM

The converter in your RV converts 110VAC to 12VDC whereas an inverter does the opposite --- it changes 12VDC to 110VAC. They both change the voltage but not in the same way.

Maxzd has his system wired into his RV converter and his inverter would be between the solar panel and its regulator and the RV converter. As he pointed out, a 1500w inverter meets his requirements but if you are using a hair dryer for example, that usually uses 1500 watts as do most small "heater" type appliances - toasters, etc.

Before purchasing any of your solar package, I would do some research to see what you need to run whatever things you want to operate. Some of the questions you need to answer are:
1) what are my requirements? 2) solar panels --- wattage and how many? where will I mount them?
3) solar panel regulator 4) batteries --- 6v? 12v? how many? what brand? storage space and weight issues?
5) Inverter..... 1500? 1750? 2000? pure sine wave or other?
6) electrical connection to RV converter..... transfer switch, etc.

azlee56 · 04-25-2013, 03:11 PM

I want to know this too, whatever I read goes right over my head

Festus2 · 04-25-2013, 03:17 PM

AnolaBob -
Yes, there are at least 2 110vAC "outlets" on the inverter but you do not need to run extension cords to the inverter from whatever you are using. There will probably be only one wire/cord and that will go from the inverter to your RV converter. It won't go directly there but will be broken by a transfer switch.

Folks who use a built-in generator, have a transfer switch that switches the power source from shore power to generator power. In your case, the transfer switch would switch the power source to the converter to your inverter which in turn is powered by your batteries which are powered by the solar panel. They are all linked together.

The transfer switch simply allows you to select how you would like your converter to operate- by 110 v shore power or by solar power.

People who only use an inverter for running the TV or for other single operations, may want to use an extension cord for just that one or two items. But in your case, you are looking at multiple usage and you don't want a bunch of extension cords all over the place and having to plug and unplug them every time you want to use a different item. That would not be the way that you would want to have your system set up.
The transfer switch eliminates the need for extension cords running all over the place and keeps things nice and neat and tidy.

Not sure if I have explained this well enough but if I haven't, you can always Google "transfer switches" and read up on how they function.

cdawrld · 04-26-2013, 04:44 AM

Festus2... Would this be a better option to install than a small stand alone inverter?
Tripp Lite APS2012 Inverter / Charger 2000W 12V DC to 120V AC 25A/100A Hardwire
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-APS...I1RN0SNCGPU0KN
With this installed all outlets would have power.
Thanks for your valuable information.

Festus2 · 04-26-2013, 06:24 AM

cdawrld -
I am not familiar with that particular product but it might be worthwhile to read the accompanying reviews. Some of the comments are not overly favourable but, like all reviews, you get a mixed bag of opinions.

Products from Xantrex are very good but pricey as are those from AIMS.

One item that I found that caught my attention has the inverter, battery charger and transfer switch all in the same unit is the KISAE Abso 2000. I saw this on www.DonRowe.com for $650.

Marine supply outlets such as West Marine have a fairly decent inventory of inverters, battery chargers, and other solar supplies that might be worth checking into.

AnolaBob · 04-26-2013, 08:03 AM

Thanks for the info on transfer switches Festus2.

I'm on a search for some good equipment.

So far the 30/40A Blue Sky Energy Solar Boost 3024iL looks like a good controller.
I have seen some inverters that have a battery charger with a transfer switch but not a good one yet.

Also looking for around 250-300W worth of solar panels.

Lots of stuff in this market but also lots of overseas junk.

I'm certainly open to any suggestions but based on duty and delivery I have to buy Canadian.

Thanks for all the great info guys.

Bob

jforrest · 04-29-2013, 11:24 AM

This site is pretty good for explaining Solar for RV's. Read this before you do anything.

http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/t...ging-puzzle-2/

Ideally you will probably want 4 six volt batteries, Trojan 105 golf cart type, Magnum modified sine inverter 3000w min., 300w+ solar panels, upgrade wiring on solar system.

AnolaBob · 04-29-2013, 08:17 PM

I am wondering why long haul truckers do not have a trade in specialty items they can bring back from the States? I figure if a guy like me wants a product and someone is in the States for a week, why wouldn't they declare it and bring it over for a fee. Typically all the items I have looked at for my solar panel project are all around $650.00. To get them to my door its at least $825.00 or more. A fee would certainly be paid for the service.

Is this illegal perhaps?

Maybe its the frustration talking because all the eastern Canada dealers who don't return phone calls/ emails or if you can reach them they put you one hold for 5 minutes before you give up.

I'm sorry if I'm complaining but as a business owner we give 100% towards services our customers needs. I believe that holds true for most businesses this side and south of the line.

Anybody got any ideas or am I out to lunch?

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