My brake issue

[Lee]

Morn'un,

Went to elk camp and pulled my trailer 2013 Cougar 21RBSWE with my trusty old 1970 Ford F-250, all seemed ok.

Returned from elk camp with my Dodge Ram which has a Prodogy P2 controller and I noticed no brakes. As soon as I touch the brake pedal the Controller jumps to “14” no matter where Gain is set to.

As a test, I pulled the breakaway pin and found no brake action. I Measured voltage at 7-pin and have 13v which indicates that the breakaway switch is functional. With breakaway pin back installed, Ohmed between the 2 pins of the 7-pin plug.. INFINITE…. Should have read ~.9ohms.


Got the trailer home and started trouble-shooting.

Climbed under and found passenger side front axle brake wiring damaged (see pic).


Decided to rewire entire brake system from junction box at the tongue back to all brakes. Used duplex 10ga wire. Removed all factory wiring, even in axle tubes. Ohmed out each magnet after removing factory wiring and found each magnet open. Even tried 2 different meters. Should have ~3.8ohms per magnet. Ordered replacement magnets from etrailer.

Pulled the curb side front drum and found the left-hand shoe’s retaining coil spring was off and was loose in the bottom of the drum. Pads on shoes were gone, Had metal on metal. Also you can see the wire for the magnet is melted where it passes through the backing plate.


Will replace entire assembly.

More to come.

[ChuckS]

Nice pics and detailed info on your findings.. I pull my hubs each spring about a month before we head out for first trip of the year..

Gives me time to get things fixed if needed...

Annual inspection is just key to long reliable performance

[chuckster57]

Good job finding and fixing the problem!! Your better than some of the "techs" I work with

[Lee]

The rest of the story.....

So the axles on my TT are AL-KO 4400lb axles. AL-KO was bought out by Dexter and for a short time Dexter carried replacement brake assembly / backing plates for the AL-KO axles.

But not anymore!!!!!!!

According to all my research, my only option now is to replace the axles!!!!!!

OMG, this is crazy. All I need is one backing plate / brake assembly ($210) and now It looks like I have to buy (2) axles at ~$800 each plus install labor as 4400lb axles are not made and I will have to upgrade to 5200lb units.

Has anyone else been down this road and can offer advise???

Thanks,

[chuckster57]

Can you just replace the magnets?

[bobbecky]

Are these the right parts you are looking for? https://www.etrailer.com/search/al+ko+4400+lb+axle

[Lee]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Can you just replace the magnets?

The one drum in the picture, the one that lost the coil spring, the shoes are metal on metal and the drum is ruined. Need shoes, springs, and a drum,... which aren't available anymore.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

Are these the right parts you are looking for? https://www.etrailer.com/search/al+ko+4400+lb+axle

According to the folks at etrailer, these only fit the Dexter axle as the old AL-KO placed the wheel hub in a 1-off position.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Lee

All I need is one backing plate / brake assembly ($210) and now It looks like I have to buy (2) axles at ~$800 each plus install labor as 4400lb axles are not made and I will have to upgrade to 5200lb units.

Has anyone else been down this road and can offer advise???

Salvage yard? eBay?

[JRTJH]

There are a couple of old threads posted by members who were looking for parts for the AlKo 4400 pound axle hubs. One of them changed out his axles, one found a machine shop that took on the task of rebuilding his spindles so the Dexter parts would fit. You might do some searching on the forum, but the "fix" seems at this point, either to remachine your spindles or buy new axles.

Years ago, when Dexter bought AlKo, they didn't need two axles in the same category, so the kept theirs and discontinued AlKo's 4400 pound line. Manufacturing parts for "obsolete" axles tapered off and once what was on the shelf were sold, there simply aren't any more.

Yes, it's a situation that is very frustrating for those who are still towing trailers with the AlKo 4400 pound axle series....

That said, it's somewhere between a miracle and impossible to find parts for my 2002 T-bird. Ford did the same thing Dexter did, about 10 years ago and now, even finding a spare tire in the correct size is impossible. Sure, someone can find "something that works, made in China, but that decreases the value of a "classic".....

So, it's not just Dexter not supplying parts for an old AlKo axle, but the parts availability for a lot of other products follows the same "no longer available"...

I just got an email today from HP. They no longer are providing tech support or parts for my laptop. It's 3 years old. At least Dexter had parts for 10 years and Ford for about 12 before they abandoned their customers. HP did it in less than 4.....

But, check the older threads if you're looking for other member's solutions.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There are a couple of old threads posted by members who were looking for parts for the AlKo 4400 pound axle hubs. One of them changed out his axles, one found a machine shop that took on the task of rebuilding his spindles so the Dexter parts would fit. You might do some searching on the forum, but the "fix" seems at this point, either to remachine your spindles or buy new axles.

Years ago, when Dexter bought AlKo, they didn't need two axles in the same category, so the kept theirs and discontinued AlKo's 4400 pound line. Manufacturing parts for "obsolete" axles tapered off and once what was on the shelf were sold, there simply aren't any more.

Yes, it's a situation that is very frustrating for those who are still towing trailers with the AlKo 4400 pound axle series....

That said, it's somewhere between a miracle and impossible to find parts for my 2002 T-bird. Ford did the same thing Dexter did, about 10 years ago and now, even finding a spare tire in the correct size is impossible. Sure, someone can find "something that works, made in China, but that decreases the value of a "classic".....

So, it's not just Dexter not supplying parts for an old AlKo axle, but the parts availability for a lot of other products follows the same "no longer available"...

I just got an email today from HP. They no longer are providing tech support or parts for my laptop. It's 3 years old. At least Dexter had parts for 10 years and Ford for about 12 before they abandoned their customers. HP did it in less than 4.....

But, check the older threads if you're looking for other member's solutions.

^^^^LOL. Throw smartphones into that. My Galaxy S7 wasn't maybe 3-4 years old and I went to the phone store to get another Otterbox Defender because I have a propensity to break them. The guy looked at me like I was a loon; "S7" he says? "Those are obsolete, we don't carry anything for them".....say what? I kept that thing until this year (or last - S23+) because there was nothing wrong with it. Worked fine when I sent it in but was tired of not getting updates and that sort of thing. Planned obsolescence is such a waste.

[Lee]

Follow up.

After much research, I have decided with replacement 4400 lb axles from Lippert.

Originally, I looked at upgrading to 5200 lb units but I couldn't find any that met the spring perch center-to-center measurement or hub measurement. This means I would have to have custom axles made$$$. Also, could not find any that are "over slung". This meant I would also have to buy replacement spring perches and hire a welder to install$$$$.

The Lippert axles are the correct measurement (Hub and spring perch) and already over slung. Upgraded to the self-adjusting brakes. Look's like $605/Ea shipped.

I plan on re-using my leaf springs as I previously installed a wet-bolt kit in them.

I plan on replacing the U-bolts though.

Comments? Advice?

[JRTJH]

Just to "verify", but are the hubs 10 or 12 inches? And is the lug spacing correct for your wheels????

Some of Lippert's 4400 pound axles are "upsized 3500 pound axles" and some are "downsized 5200 pound axles"...

The "upsized ones" typically have 10" brakes and 5/5 lug spacing while the "downsized ones" typically have 12" brakes with 6/5 lug spacing.....

That said, 12" brakes/hubs won't fit 14" wheels even if the lug spacing is correct. The "open space on the back of 14" wheels is too small to clear the larger hubs/brakes on 12" systems....

You may already know and have already addressed these concerns, but if you haven't, before they ship them, I'd verify....

And, you're right, the 86.5 hubface/68.5 hanger space in overslung axles is hard to find, but that's just about all Keystone (and most other RV trailer manufacturers use these days.... I guess there's a lot more axles used for utility and specialty trailers than for RV trailers, but they shouldn't be as hard to find as they are... When I lost a hub, there were ABSOLUTELY NO axles anywhere near or around the Detroit/Lansing/Grand Rapids areas in lower Michigan.... Quite the surprise to find a "desert with no oasis" on axles.....

[Lee]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Just to "verify", but are the hubs 10 or 12 inches? And is the lug spacing correct for your wheels????

Some of Lippert's 4400 pound axles are "upsized 3500 pound axles" and some are "downsized 5200 pound axles"...

The "upsized ones" typically have 10" brakes and 5/5 lug spacing while the "downsized ones" typically have 12" brakes with 6/5 lug spacing.....

That said, 12" brakes/hubs won't fit 14" wheels even if the lug spacing is correct. The "open space on the back of 14" wheels is too small to clear the larger hubs/brakes on 12" systems....

You may already know and have already addressed these concerns, but if you haven't, before they ship them, I'd verify....

And, you're right, the 86.5 hubface/68.5 hanger space in overslung axles is hard to find, but that's just about all Keystone (and most other RV trailer manufacturers use these days.... I guess there's a lot more axles used for utility and specialty trailers than for RV trailers, but they shouldn't be as hard to find as they are... When I lost a hub, there were ABSOLUTELY NO axles anywhere near or around the Detroit/Lansing/Grand Rapids areas in lower Michigan.... Quite the surprise to find a "desert with no oasis" on axles.....

Hi John,

Thanks for the input !!

The axles are: 6 wheel bolts on 5.50" bolt circle - 10" Hub. So, Not really an "up-size" or "down-size", ... somewhere in between.

[Lee]

Update:

First off, I am blessed that considering I live in the Great North-Wet, I have covered parking on my property for my TT and it sits on a concrete slab.

Today, I removed the front axle so I could get accurate measurements on spring perches and hub to hub measurements as,.... axle manufacture has a no exchange no return policy.

Considering that my axles are "over slung", meaning the leaf springs are over the axle, not below, the process of removal was really easy. Just remove the U-bolts and drop the axle. Thank goodness for my Transmission jack!!!

I supported the TT on the frame rails with jack stands.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Lee

Update:

First off, I am blessed that considering I live in the Great North-Wet, I have covered parking on my property for my TT and it sits on a concrete slab.

Today, I removed the front axle so I could get accurate measurements on spring perches and hub to hub measurements as,.... axle manufacture has a no exchange no return policy.

Considering that my axles are "over slung", meaning the leaf springs are over the axle, not below, the process of removal was really easy. Just remove the U-bolts and drop the axle. Thank goodness for my Transmission jack!!!

I supported the TT on the frame rails with jack stands.

Your hubface measurement should be 86.5 inches and the spring perch should be 68.5". If it's anything other than that, please let us know. As far as I know, all Keystone/Lippert frames have been that measurement for the last 10 or so years.... If it changed for a trailer line, I'd like to log that info away for the future.

Thanks

[Lee]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Your hubface measurement should be 86.5 inches and the spring perch should be 68.5". If it's anything other than that, please let us know. As far as I know, all Keystone/Lippert frames have been that measurement for the last 10 or so years.... If it changed for a trailer line, I'd like to log that info away for the future.

Thanks

John,

Yesterday I finally found time to make the measurements on the axle. They are VERY close to your quoted measurements.

I have also attached a pic of the Sticker on the axle from AL-KO which matched my measurements of Hub to Hub face = 85. Spring perch center to center = 68.5.

The Lippert axle I am ordering matches the measurements exactly for the non-self adjusting brakes but,... The self adjusting brakes have a hub face to hub face measurement 1 inch wider (86) which shouldn't be a problem.

Comments?