Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Tires, Tires, Tires!
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-07-2020, 03:58 PM   #61
HDroadglide
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Briggs
Posts: 54
yep
never had to add air. They are Bridgestone original tires but now it is time to replace them.
HDroadglide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2020, 09:39 AM   #62
Mongoose9400
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Arlington
Posts: 97
I got all four tires and the spare mounted and balanced today. Got them installed and will tow the trailer for repairs in a few days and see how they do!

The OEM tires were date code 2617, spare was 3017.

The new tires I purchased from Amazon are only a few months old, very pleased with the order.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	4219DAF8-895A-4CB5-A37F-4431CB628FF8.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	481.9 KB
ID:	29083  
__________________

2015 F-350 CC LB SRW Platinum
-Michelin LTX A/T 2 - LT275/65R20E Tires
-B&W Ford Puck Mount Companion Hitch
2018 Raptor Predator Series 3513P, GVWR 16,820 lbs.
-Carlisle All Steel CSL16 - ST235/80R16F Tires
Mongoose9400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2020, 10:05 AM   #63
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoose9400 View Post
I got all four tires and the spare mounted and balanced today. Got them installed and will tow the trailer for repairs in a few days and see how they do!

The OEM tires were date code 2617, spare was 3017.

The new tires I purchased from Amazon are only a few months old, very pleased with the order.
What brand/load range did you go with?
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2020, 11:04 AM   #64
Mongoose9400
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Arlington
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
What brand/load range did you go with?
Carlisle 235/80R16 All Steel, Load Range G, 81 MPH speed rating.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3202607B-3C9E-4A8B-B961-5C63CD2B5A89.jpeg
Views:	78
Size:	111.9 KB
ID:	29090  
__________________

2015 F-350 CC LB SRW Platinum
-Michelin LTX A/T 2 - LT275/65R20E Tires
-B&W Ford Puck Mount Companion Hitch
2018 Raptor Predator Series 3513P, GVWR 16,820 lbs.
-Carlisle All Steel CSL16 - ST235/80R16F Tires
Mongoose9400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2020, 01:55 PM   #65
lcarver02
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Pleasantview
Posts: 72
Rim Impact Tire Failure Clear

I agree with Tireman9. You hit something sharp and hard to do that damage to the rim. This caused the tire failure and subsequent damage to your RV. If insurance adjusters see this, they may not cover the damage. Some advice is a TPMS system and double check before you hit the freeway. I hit a toilet once in Houston and it blew out my tires. Some people think the freeway is their private dump.
lcarver02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2020, 02:01 PM   #66
lcarver02
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Pleasantview
Posts: 72
This is a good tire, I hope it is made in the U.S. you can see this on the tire sidewall. Not sure if this is a 12 ply or 14, but it is a high load tire for sure to get a G rating and 81 MPH. I make it a point to buy American. Goodyear has a very good new tire - Endurance. My Trail Kings lasted for a short 4 years with average use. One blow out, one bulge and they only have 8/32 new. Beware of Road Hazards.
lcarver02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2020, 02:07 PM   #67
lcarver02
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Pleasantview
Posts: 72
I think the photos from Page 3 are from Spaceman and not your Trailer, my comments were about these photo's. Sorry for the mistake, easy to hijack a thread.
lcarver02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2020, 02:32 PM   #68
notanlines
Senior Member
 
notanlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,309
Icarver, "If insurance adjusters see this, they may not cover the damage" Might we ask for some reference to this? Are you saying if you run a red light and broadside a truck and your insurance won't cover? Same thing and I'm not buying it.
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
notanlines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2020, 04:19 PM   #69
tech740
Senior Member
 
tech740's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hemlock
Posts: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcarver02 View Post
This is a good tire, I hope it is made in the U.S. you can see this on the tire sidewall. Not sure if this is a 12 ply or 14, but it is a high load tire for sure to get a G rating and 81 MPH. I make it a point to buy American. Goodyear has a very good new tire - Endurance. My Trail Kings lasted for a short 4 years with average use. One blow out, one bulge and they only have 8/32 new. Beware of Road Hazards.
Load range G is 14 ply. "4 short years" is great for trailer kings. Normal life of a "good" tire is 5 years.
__________________
R.J. and Ginger

2019 Ram 3500 6.7 HO, Aisin Trans 3:73
Reese Goosebox
2019 Sandpiper 379FLOK
tech740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 05:05 AM   #70
Bill-2020
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDroadglide View Post
More and more places have nitrogen. Like car dealers, our 2017 chevy came with Nitrogen and now has 73,000 miles and never had to add any to them. Just saying...
Unless a dealer buys and “maintains” a true nitrogen generator, the nitrogen their tire inflator will not produce nitrogen that’s much better than what we already breathe. I have, and use daily in my business two nitrogen generators that produce just under pure nitrogen. N2 is a critical component in our production process. Initial cost was just over $30,000 each. Yearly filter maintenance runs $900 per year, per generator (quarterly, semi-annually, annually filter changes). I highly doubt any auto dealer in the US actually uses a near pure nitrogen in their tire filling stations. And nitrogen generators do not push high pressures. We push about 75 psi, but our purpose is not based psi but rather volume of nitrogen.
__________________
2023 Cougar HT 23MLE
2020 F250 XLT CC 6.2 4WD
Bill-2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 05:11 AM   #71
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-2020 View Post
Unless a dealer buys and “maintains” a true nitrogen generator, the nitrogen their tire inflator will not produce nitrogen that’s much better than what we already breathe. I have, and use daily in my business two nitrogen generators that produce just under pure nitrogen. N2 is a critical component in our production process. Initial cost was just over $30,000 each. Yearly filter maintenance runs $900 per year, per generator (quarterly, semi-annually, annually filter changes). I highly doubt any auto dealer in the US actually uses a near pure nitrogen in their tire filling stations. And nitrogen generators do not push high pressures. We push about 75 psi, but our purpose is not based psi but rather volume of nitrogen.
I imagine most places that offer nitrogen for tires get tanks filled by a gas company. Beverage canning facilities use bulk tank nitrogen delivery/storage for canning non carbonated drinks like ice tea.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 05:40 AM   #72
notanlines
Senior Member
 
notanlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,309
I found this post I made in 2016 concerning the nitrogen argument. It still stands as a good read to debunk the myth surrounding the element in tires:

" I have followed the nitrogen/air argument for years. I have stayed with common air from our compressor, but it still interests me. This website has a fairly good comparison/tests and is worth a read, although a little long.
https://powertank.com/truth.or.hype/
I am reprinting their conclusion here.
"Conclusion of High Pressure Gas Test:
At the higher tire pressure commonly seen in RV tires we took the gases through a temperature range of 154ºF (-20ºF up to 134ºF). Our start pressure was 80 PSI @ -20ºF and over the 154ºF temperature increase we saw the gas pressures all increase virtually the same amount to within 2 PSI of each other. In the end, the N2 and "air" test samples topped at 108 PSI while the CO2 sample topped out at 110 PSI. Note that the pressure changes that we saw in our bottles are the same as what you'd experience in your big RV tires despite the difference in volume. What does this mean? No matter which of these gases is in your RV tires, your handling, performance and tire wear will be the same."
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
notanlines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 05:59 AM   #73
Bill-2020
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
I imagine most places that offer nitrogen for tires get tanks filled by a gas company. Beverage canning facilities use bulk tank nitrogen delivery/storage for canning non carbonated drinks like ice tea.
Yes, you would think. However bulk storage isn’t cost effective. Tire inflators are much less expensive overall, they produce poor levels of nitrogen but the dealer can/does charge huge amounts to customers to get that nitrogen tire fill, and the customer thinks they are getting pure stuff. The ROI on a Nitrogen tire inflator is next to nothing with uninformed consumers opening their wallets.
__________________
2023 Cougar HT 23MLE
2020 F250 XLT CC 6.2 4WD
Bill-2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 06:56 AM   #74
Bill-2020
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
Furthermore, you’ll never have 100% nitrogen in your tires anyway. It’s impossible to get all of the normal air out of a tire Before you begin to inflate with N2. It’s like changing the oil in your vehicle, you’ll never get all of the “old“ oil out before you pour in the new.
__________________
2023 Cougar HT 23MLE
2020 F250 XLT CC 6.2 4WD
Bill-2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 09:06 AM   #75
Ribtip
Senior Member
 
Ribtip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Braidwood
Posts: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Sorry to read about your problems, Some observations and comments on your info and the posts of others.

Travel speed at time of failure is not critical information as belt separations take hundreds if not thousands of miles to initiate, and then grow large enough to actually result in the tire coming apart.

The sidewall split, seen in one picture, could be the confirmation of prior damage from pot hole or hitting "road trash" I covered this in my blog post of Jan 10, 2020
It is possible that the complete failure could have been avoided if a "Free-Spin" inspection had been done starting at 2 years of age.

"Made in China" is no more of a reason for failure than "Made in Indiana" is the reason for any problem with most RVs.

Yes knowing the actual DOT serial would help in any investigation.

While always inflating to the sidewall pressure (pressure on the RV Certification label) is the preferred place to start as tests have shown that very few people can correctly identify the actual load on a tire or the tire's inflation by visual inspection.

RE Inflation Have you ever compared your pressure gauge to a known source to confirm it is reasonable accurate (+/- 5 psi)?

Yes replacing other tires, when one has failed and been run for some unknown number of miles. As the "mate" had to pick-up and support the load which in many cases means that tire was 100% overloaded.

A "Belt Detachment", improperly called a tread separation in this case, can many times be discovered during the annual "Free Spin" inspection.

Yes running a TPMS is always a good idea but I think this failure was the result of long term use, heat, high speed (higher than 65 mph) coupled with low reserve load and impact.

Yes Load imbalance - Not 50/50 split between axles PLUS not 50/50 load split axle end to axle end) probably means one or more tires were in overload even if inflated to the tire sidewall 100 psi.

For that size and Load Range many like Sailun brand. ST 235/85R16 might be OK But you MUST confirm tire to tire clearance and that the new tire has equal or greater load capacity.


Yes Radial vs Bias can make a difference. RE who made a "mistake" It is the vehicle manufacturer's responsibility to select and specify the appropriate tire and inflation. This is not the responsibility of the tire manufacturer.

I thought it was established the tires were LR-F so I do not understand the comments on LR-E. But I thnk the options might include LR-G. If switching to radial be sure the wheels are rated for radial tires. If you need to change wheels you might even consider actual truck tires ( 17.5 wheel diameter)

Once you know your actual scale weights on each tire position then you can look for replacement tires that offer at least a +15% "Reserve Load" capacity.

RE Speed Rating of ST type tires. The "Speed Symbol" is really just an indication of heat resistance and handling capability. The load formula used to generate the numbers published in ALL the Load inflation tables for ST type tires was and still is based on an assumed 65 mph MAX. Not average or occasionally but MAX. No one tells you this because they don't wan to lose the sale and many people insist on traveling faster than 63 mph simply because they can pull that fast. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

"Definitely under-inflation can shorten tire life. Over-inflation of radials ( + 5 to 10%) doesn't result in structural failures based on the thousands of tires I inspected in my career.


Sorry but I am not allowed to post direct hot links to my blog on this forum.
Tireman. Is there a point where to stiff of a tire ex. Motorhome or mac tires become to much for the camper to handle. As in kind of beating it to death. Meaning not enough flex. Lots of good info here. Thanks for your reply in advance.
Ribtip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 10:03 AM   #76
Tireman9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Akron
Posts: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribtip View Post
Tireman. Is there a point where to stiff of a tire ex. Motorhome or mac tires become to much for the camper to handle. As in kind of beating it to death. Meaning not enough flex. Lots of good info here. Thanks for your reply in advance.



While it is true that not all tires of the same size and Load Range and inflation have identical ride, you do need to start with selecting a tire that can support the measured load.
When i was working in OE Tire Development part of my job was to compare tires back to back which meant having a test route 2 to 6 miles and running a set of tire A then doing a change over and then riding set B. Both A and B were brand new tires.
You can't properly evaluate worn out tire A against new tire B.


In the RV industry I have not seen or heard of anyone doing similar direct comparisons. Someone might do that but apparently not many RV or Tire companies go to the same effort. Probably because of cost.


If you are going to sell 100,000 or 1,000,000 tires based on a comparison you can absorb the cost but is you are selling 10,000 or maybe only 2,000 a year it doesn't make sense.


In general however higher aspect ratio ( the 75 or 80 or 85 number in tire sizing) will give a slightly softer ride.
Obviously lower inflation will give better ride


So if you have a choice of sizes the tire with higher Aspect AND also needing less air to support the load you probably will get better ride.
__________________
Retired Tire Design Engineer (40 years). Serve on FMCA Tech Advisory Committee. Write a blog RV Tire Safety. Read THIS post on Why Tires Fail.
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 11:08 AM   #77
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoose9400 View Post
I ended up ordering 5 Carlisle tires since they had a better speed rating, load capacity, and weighed more (I assume more weigh = more material = stronger tire). Tires will carry 4,400 lbs at 110 psi, 81 mph speed rating and are the same size as my stock tires. I double checked my rims and they say max 120 psi. Tires should arrive tomorrow and I’ll get them mounted over the weekend.
The tire in your picture produces 4080# of load capacity at 110 PSI.

https://www.carlislebrandtires.com/o...-detail/csl16/
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 11:14 AM   #78
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
While it is true that not all tires of the same size and Load Range and inflation have identical ride, you do need to start with selecting a tire that can support the measured load.
When i was working in OE Tire Development part of my job was to compare tires back to back which meant having a test route 2 to 6 miles and running a set of tire A then doing a change over and then riding set B. Both A and B were brand new tires.
You can't properly evaluate worn out tire A against new tire B.


In the RV industry I have not seen or heard of anyone doing similar direct comparisons. Someone might do that but apparently not many RV or Tire companies go to the same effort. Probably because of cost.


If you are going to sell 100,000 or 1,000,000 tires based on a comparison you can absorb the cost but is you are selling 10,000 or maybe only 2,000 a year it doesn't make sense.


In general however higher aspect ratio ( the 75 or 80 or 85 number in tire sizing) will give a slightly softer ride.
Obviously lower inflation will give better ride


So if you have a choice of sizes the tire with higher Aspect AND also needing less air to support the load you probably will get better ride.
I was hoping you would chime in here and give us some insight on how Trailer King got 3860# of load capacity out of a LRF tire at 100 PSI????

Has Trailer King made a massive mistake with those LRF tires or is it just another bastardized load and inflation pressure from our China friends????

http://www.trailerkingtires.com/tire...2-product-line

Something about this posters OE tires smells. His trailer is a 2018 model. That clearly would require Keystone to insure the OE tires provided 10% in load capacity reserves. According to the trailer specs the vehicle GAWRs are 14K. That would require a minimum load capacity of 3850# to pass the 10% RVIA requirement. A normal ST235/80R16 LRF only provides 3750#. When you take that designated size to a LRG and drop back to 100 PSI you get 3860# of load capacity. HMMMMM???

https://fifthwheelst.com/documents/C...T-Modified.pdf
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 01:04 PM   #79
Tireman9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Akron
Posts: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
I was hoping you would chime in here and give us some insight on how Trailer King got 3860# of load capacity out of a LRF tire at 100 PSI????

Has Trailer King made a massive mistake with those LRF tires or is it just another bastardized load and inflation pressure from our China friends????

http://www.trailerkingtires.com/tire...2-product-line

Something about this posters OE tires smells. His trailer is a 2018 model. That clearly would require Keystone to insure the OE tires provided 10% in load capacity reserves. According to the trailer specs the vehicle GAWRs are 14K. That would require a minimum load capacity of 3850# to pass the 10% RVIA requirement. A normal ST235/80R16 LRF only provides 3750#. When you take that designated size to a LRG and drop back to 100 PSI you get 3860# of load capacity. HMMMMM???

https://fifthwheelst.com/documents/C...T-Modified.pdf



Well we are missing some information RVIA 110% is based on the stated GAWR and no one has provided a nice picture of the tire certification label so we get all the information in one place.


It's Keystone that sets the inflation number and GAWR, They can select any tire that has the numbers published.


New sizes and Load Range combinations get added to TRA tables when a tire company requests. So it could be a one off, but having more facts would help.
__________________
Retired Tire Design Engineer (40 years). Serve on FMCA Tech Advisory Committee. Write a blog RV Tire Safety. Read THIS post on Why Tires Fail.
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 02:31 PM   #80
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Well we are missing some information RVIA 110% is based on the stated GAWR and no one has provided a nice picture of the tire certification label so we get all the information in one place.


It's Keystone that sets the inflation number and GAWR, They can select any tire that has the numbers published.


New sizes and Load Range combinations get added to TRA tables when a tire company requests. So it could be a one off, but having more facts would help.
I'll put it a different way. According to the specs for the OPs trailer the GAWRs cannot be LESS than 7000#.

Sorry, I thought you might provide more light. I already knew everything you have posted.

FMVSS allows more than one measured load for tires. An example is the ST235/80R16 LRE with three different load capacities at 80 PSI. FMVSS tells the vehicle manufacturer they can use the higher load when documented. Without documentation the load defaults to the lowest load.

In this case the load is equal to one step up on the inflation chart, providing a completely different picture for selection of future replacements.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.