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Old 11-19-2021, 09:19 AM   #1
Moose29
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Why is my Antifeeze freezing?

So, winterizing my rig for the first time.
Blew out all the lines with air, then drained all lowpoints and tanks ( fresh and waste ) Drained and bypassed the HW tank first.
Put 4 gals of -50 Walmart RV anti freeze in the fresh and ran it through all the fixtures. Then topped up all the traps straight from the jug.
Checked a couple of days later ( -5 to -8 over night low ) and the antifreeze in the toilet bowl was slush!
So drained the fresh tank with the antifreeze again, and put in 2 more gals of antifreeze. Pumped all that through.
Flushed the toilet and added Antifreeze straight to the bowl from the jug.
2 days later, the anti freeze is slush agian from -8 over night low! WTF!
Checked all the antifreeze with a tester and it showed off the scale ( tester only goes down to -45 )
This cant be normal? Is it?
Temps last year here in Calgary got down to -30C

Thinking about blowing the whole thing out again, and just leaving the antifreeze residue in the lines. And taking all the traps apart as they don't have drains in them.
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Old 11-19-2021, 09:33 AM   #2
GHen
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My understanding is slush is what it does, it won’t freeze hard and expand.
Our weather is not as cold as yours so I’m sure others will explain their thoughts.
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Old 11-19-2021, 09:33 AM   #3
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RV antifreeze will turn to slush and/or freeze solid... That's perfectly OK as long as you have the correct amount of antifreeze to water....

The "claim to fame" for RV antifreeze is that it doesn't expand when it freezes. Unlike water, when RV antifreeze does "turn to slush or turn solid" it doesn't expand, so it won't "split or crack the components it is protecting.

I agree, it's "un-nerving at best" to open the toilet and see a chunk of wine colored ice in the bowl... As long as you ran the pump long enough to flush out any remaining water, you'll be OK.

As a "old timer's hint": I always leave my faucets turned on after running antifreeze through them. That way, even if there is some residual water in the faucet, the valve is open, not closed, so there's no "contained space" that the ice formation could damage, even if there's some water left behind..... Same with holding tank valves. I leave them open for a couple of days after parking and winterizing so all of the "extra black/gray tank contents can settle as the trailer settles and I don't get any fluid buildup at the drain valve that might freeze against the rubber seals. After 3 or 4 days of "draining into a 5 gallon bucket, I close the drain valves but leave the faucet valves open.
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Old 11-19-2021, 11:27 AM   #4
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Absolutely correct. RV antifreeze can, and does, freeze, but it does not expand. You's is OK. Relax and enjoy the winter!
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Old 11-19-2021, 12:36 PM   #5
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Thanks,
I was so confused, as I knew I was doing everything right!
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Old 11-19-2021, 02:11 PM   #6
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I agree with everything above. RV antifreeze gets slushy but does not freeze solid or expand
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Old 11-19-2021, 02:15 PM   #7
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Thanks everyone!
I was seriously loossing sleep over this!
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Old 11-19-2021, 02:18 PM   #8
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Everything freezes in Calgary
Hi and to the forum
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Old 11-19-2021, 03:41 PM   #9
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Short video
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Old 11-19-2021, 03:57 PM   #10
Moose29
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So if I wanted to de-winterize, as we are coming into a warm snap, all my lines are filled with slush and would be hard to push thru?
Is there an RV Anti freeze that stays liquid?

Thanks for all the responses!
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Old 11-19-2021, 04:19 PM   #11
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I'm not aware of any that remains liquid. Most is rated either -20F, -30F or -50F. I believe that is the point where it solidifies. The lower the rating the more expensive the container.. It must be the container since the antifreeze is all the same color <G>

Usually, even if it's cold and the antifreeze is "slushy" by the time you get the cabin warm enough to work without gloves, the antifreeze is liquid enough to flow easily when you flush the lines.
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Old 11-19-2021, 05:08 PM   #12
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Is there a concern with the method? If 4 gallons are dumped into the fresh, is it possible there is residual water that might dilute the AF and raise its freezing point with some risk of expansion?

All my rigs have had a winterizing line to feed the pump directly, and I blow out the lines first, so I'm confident that I have nearly 100% concentrated AF in the lines.
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Old 11-19-2021, 05:23 PM   #13
Moose29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoobler View Post
Is there a concern with the method? If 4 gallons are dumped into the fresh, is it possible there is residual water that might dilute the AF and raise its freezing point with some risk of expansion?

All my rigs have had a winterizing line to feed the pump directly, and I blow out the lines first, so I'm confident that I have nearly 100% concentrated AF in the lines.
No. the method was good. Even raised the rig on opposite side so all water would drain out.
Then drained again and re-filled with 100% -50 AF.
Our over night low was only -8. No possible way it was diluted! And I tested it from all faucets, all at -50.
Thanks for your relply , but Im going with and hoping the all the replies that the AF just goes to slush and does not expand is true.
Calgary winters hit -30C with -40C windchill!
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Old 11-19-2021, 05:33 PM   #14
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Sounds good. The difference in method just got me thinking. If you took steps to maximize tank drain, I would agree you have nothing to worry about.
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Old 11-19-2021, 05:40 PM   #15
Moose29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoobler View Post
Sounds good. The difference in method just got me thinking. If you took steps to maximize tank drain, I would agree you have nothing to worry about.
Do you even have to winertize in Mesa?
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Old 11-19-2021, 06:04 PM   #16
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All RV antifreeze "works the same way" even though there are a couple of different "chemistries" involved. Here's one website that more or less explains how it works: https://www.splashwash.com/products/.../rv-marine-50f

Another is the e-trailer website: https://www.etrailer.com/faq-facts-a...ze.aspx#freeze

Don't put more worry and concern into the question, "Am I OK" than it deserves.... If you drained the water system, used the pump (not the fresh water tank) and pumped "good undiluted antifreeze" into the pump and subsequently into the hot/cold water lines, you'll be OK. I would suggest leaving the faucets turned on to eliminate a "trapped space that could be damaged if there is any water trapped inside the faucet. Other than that, the water system will be OK. Don't forget the outside shower and the black tank flush line.....
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Old 11-19-2021, 06:15 PM   #17
Moose29
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
All RV antifreeze "works the same way" even though there are a couple of different "chemistries" involved. Here's one website that more or less explains how it works: https://www.souththompsonrv.com/blog...antifreeze-faq

Another is the e-trailer website: https://www.etrailer.com/faq-facts-a...ze.aspx#freeze

Don't put more worry and concern into the question, "Am I OK" than it deserves.... If you drained the water system, used the pump (not the fresh water tank) and pumped "good undiluted antifreeze" into the pump and subsequently into the hot/cold water lines, you'll be OK. I would suggest leaving the faucets turned on to eliminate a "trapped space that could be damaged if there is any water trapped inside the faucet. Other than that, the water system will be OK. Don't forget the outside shower and the black tank flush line.....
Thanks John
Should I be leaving the caps off the low point drains too? They are the most exposed water lines on the traile! But at -30c everything freezes, inside and out!
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Old 11-19-2021, 06:41 PM   #18
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I winterize, leave the faucets turned on, and if I have any "concern or worry" about water being in the lines, I remove the low point drain lines, let them drip until they stop dripping and then recap them. My way of thinking, if there's going to be any water accumulation, it'll probably be in the low point drains, so uncapping them allows that "diluted antifreeze or water to drain.

We usually have temps that hover around -20F (around -29 to -30 C) for a couple of weeks every year. I've never had any freeze damage caused by antifreeze failure. Actually, since I started winterizing my trailer myself (stopped relying on the dealers around here to do it) I've had no problems. Prior to that, I did have things like lost low point caps, missing anode, anti-siphon valve installed backwards on the black tank flush and "pink stains in every sink" (I think that's the sloppy way the dealer can prove he used antifreeze in the trailer. LOL

Remember, PEX is "very forgiving" when it comes to freeze damage, it's the fittings that usually suffer. Luckily, the low point drains are PEX tubing with a cheap cap screwed on the end. If there's going to be any damage, it'll usually be the cap, a $2 part from Lowe's or Home Depot.
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Old 11-19-2021, 06:45 PM   #19
Moose29
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Thanks agian John.
Quite impressed by all the replies to my first post.
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:36 AM   #20
Coach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose29 View Post
So, winterizing my rig for the first time.
Blew out all the lines with air, then drained all lowpoints and tanks ( fresh and waste ) Drained and bypassed the HW tank first.
Put 4 gals of -50 Walmart RV anti freeze in the fresh and ran it through all the fixtures. Then topped up all the traps straight from the jug.
Checked a couple of days later ( -5 to -8 over night low ) and the antifreeze in the toilet bowl was slush!
So drained the fresh tank with the antifreeze again, and put in 2 more gals of antifreeze. Pumped all that through.
Flushed the toilet and added Antifreeze straight to the bowl from the jug.
2 days later, the anti freeze is slush agian from -8 over night low! WTF!
Checked all the antifreeze with a tester and it showed off the scale ( tester only goes down to -45 )
This cant be normal? Is it?
Temps last year here in Calgary got down to -30C

Thinking about blowing the whole thing out again, and just leaving the antifreeze residue in the lines. And taking all the traps apart as they don't have drains in them.
I live 80 miles NE of Calgary so very similar weather to yours. I can appreciate you don't want a bad surprise in spring, none of us do. Here is my procedure. I drain HW tank and isolate. drain fresh water tank and low points in fresh water supply. Then disconnect freshwater suction line and put on a short one which I use to pump out of 4 litter container of RV antifreeze. I use 8 liters which is more than enough, ( rig is Raptor toy hauler ). Never a problem when de winterizing. (Do not forget the outside shower and any other water user device on outside)
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