30 AMP Plug replacement

[LHaven]

I see a 30 amp socket with obvious charring on one of the conductors, indicating it needs replacement. I don't see any associated breaker. If the breaker isn't a 30 amp breaker, that's one problem. If the socket is wired incorrectly, that's another, and it would take your electrician to determine that.

[jasin1]

The receptacle looks like it’s worn out and needs replacing on the pedestal…it is getting hot on the one contact point from people wiggling the plug in and out..I’d have them replace it right away…that’s probably all that is wrong with the pedestal..or the wire to that particular slot in the receptacle is loose..either way have them replace it and get yourself a new cord…that’s what I think burned yours up

[KathyAnn]

Thank you again! I'll be talking with the park land owner about what I've learned.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by KathyAnn

Thank you again! I'll be talking with the park land owner about what I've learned.

Also look at the sticker above the receptacle in your picture…always turn off the breaker or disconnect switch on the pedestal ( or next to the pedestal…have them show you) while your plugging in or unplugging the shore power cord

[flybouy]

Wow, a couple of possabilities here. First off have the electrician check the park's outlet for proper wireing. This can be done from the outside without opening the pedestal. Let's talk about that pedestal first.

The park pedestal, you stated the breaker that you were told and energized was a 50 amp 240 volt breaker. If that's the case then a pedestal connection should have a 30 amp breaker inside the box with the 30 amp receptical. That box looks to be fairly new, it should have also had a 15 amp gfi receptival and 15 amp breaker in it as well. How far away was the breaker from the receptical? If you could not see the receptical from the breaker that doesn’t meet code. You'll know for sure when your electrician arrives.

From the looks of things (and looks can and often are deceiving) it might appear as the park did or had someone do a pedestal replacement and bought the cheapest RV box available and possibly wired it incorrectly. I say this as a "first blush" impression as the information is insufficiant to make a true determination. In this scenario the replacement would have to have been done between the last user and your arrival. If it was wired incorrectly this would have happened to someone else. One thing is certian and that is that receptical needs to be replaced before using that pedestal. If the park removes it before the electrician arrives they may fix their misteak.

Now let's talk about the plug/ shore cable on your trailer. From looking at your first post pictures the ground connector (the round connector by itself) looks to be bent. Was this a result of the "meltdown" or was it like this when you plugged it in? What did that plug look like and was it warm when you removed it at the last location? Lastly, how do you remove it when you unplug the trailer? If you are afraid of being shocked and you pull on the wire and not the plug you will cause damage to both over time which could cause the type of failure you experienced. Most 30 amp plugs these days have a built in "finger hold" that makes removing the plug straight very easy. I've seen folks afraid of getting shocked yank the cord and I've seen people "rock the plug back and forth" when it's tight. Both practices will cause damage. Turning the breaker off before manipulating the plug elimibates the chance of being shocked. Replacing the plug with one that has a "handle" eliminates the mechanical issue when removing the plug.

Going forward, if the electrician finds the outlet wired incorrectly then the park needs to compensate you for your damages. If this was caused from the plug and cord on the trailer being abused then consider it a learning experience. Purchasing an EMS can stop most of these type issues from turning catastrophic. An inexpensivs way to test an outlet is to but a 30 amp male to 15 amp female adapter (about $5 for a "hockey puck" style). Into that plug in a 15 amp circuit tester/analyzer. It will have a series of LED lights that indicate if the outlet is wired correctly. The circuit tester can be aquired for about $10. I keep this setup in the door pocket of my truck. When I pull up to a site I'll get out with tester in hand and check the pedestal. If it's ok then I turn on the water. If water flow and color appear ok then I'll back in and set up. This eliminates backing in, setting up, and then realizing the there's an issue that will either delay getting hooked up or worse making you move to another site with working utilities. BTDT.

Let use know what the electrician finds.

[KathyAnn]

I am so grateful to all who posted replies. I found the information extremely helpful.

It's shocking what happened today.

The park owner said an electrician would be out today.(finally) I expected to see the same electric company trucks that have been here before, but no, some guy in a truck showed up.

The electric company that used to service the park was owned by the park owner's boyfriend and they broke up a few months ago.

After I turned on the outside breaker at the poll the guy uses a simple voltage meter and says 'there's power' and began to look for my RV power cord. I said I'm not plugging in my RV; I showed him the exposed metal on the receptacle port like you showed me and told him the receptacle needed to be replaced. He said something like "i don't know; there's power'

I then got my RV circuit analyzer I just purchased and plugged it into the receptacle. 2 yellows and a Red came on and he says "see there's power" OMG. As I pointed to the chart on the analyzer I told him it says Open Neutral; he didn't know what that was.

Then I said "Look, the ground wire is not connected at all"; it had come out when I removed some installation that surrounded the pedestal before I took the picture I posted here. And he didn't seem to know about the green wire.

OMG! I am so shaken I screamed at him to get out of here and called the park owner.

The park owner says in the morning Oscar the electrician is coming.

I just wish tonight she'd get back with her electrician boyfriend.

In Jan I'll have the resources to buy and install the EMS-HW30c. Until then I'll monitor the pedestal daily and I will do things to keep the power draw as low as possible. I also bought a non-contact voltage detector.

Thanks again for the information and for being interested in the outcome.

Kathy

[Essvar]

Wow…. Thank you for taking the advice here! Do not plug anything into that outlet until the neutral is repaired. Without the neutral you aren’t completing the circuit and the power had nowhere to go… this caused the melting. Your tester confirmed this as the burned pin is the neutral/return leg.

When they send out a new “electrician” please ask to see his license, and verify the CCB number.

Also… the receptacle needs to be replaced.

[LHaven]

So what I think you're saying is that the electrician who replaced the electrician-boyfriend was less competent than the boyfriend? Wow, just wow.

You're going to love your EMS-HW30c. While you're waiting for it to arrive, contact the manufacturer of your air conditioner to find out whether it has its own compressor protection delay, so you'll know whether to strap your EMS for the extra delay or not.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by KathyAnn

Bad pic, but bigger.

Well if it wasn’t bad before it is now! That 30 amp outlet needs to e replaced before you place your new plug end into it, or you will have the same issue.

[wiredgeorge]

Perhaps share the name of the campground so that place can get the recognition it deserves. Also, join campgroundreviews.com and write up a review of the campground in light of their unwillingness to make the electrical systems right.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by KathyAnn

I am so grateful to all who posted replies. I found the information extremely helpful.

It's shocking what happened today.

The park owner said an electrician would be out today.(finally) I expected to see the same electric company trucks that have been here before, but no, some guy in a truck showed up.

The electric company that used to service the park was owned by the park owner's boyfriend and they broke up a few months ago.

After I turned on the outside breaker at the poll the guy uses a simple voltage meter and says 'there's power' and began to look for my RV power cord. I said I'm not plugging in my RV; I showed him the exposed metal on the receptacle port like you showed me and told him the receptacle needed to be replaced. He said something like "i don't know; there's power'

I then got my RV circuit analyzer I just purchased and plugged it into the receptacle. 2 yellows and a Red came on and he says "see there's power" OMG. As I pointed to the chart on the analyzer I told him it says Open Neutral; he didn't know what that was.

Then I said "Look, the ground wire is not connected at all"; it had come out when I removed some installation that surrounded the pedestal before I took the picture I posted here. And he didn't seem to know about the green wire.

OMG! I am so shaken I screamed at him to get out of here and called the park owner.

The park owner says in the morning Oscar the electrician is coming.

I just wish tonight she'd get back with her electrician boyfriend.

In Jan I'll have the resources to buy and install the EMS-HW30c. Until then I'll monitor the pedestal daily and I will do things to keep the power draw as low as possible. I also bought a non-contact voltage detector.

Thanks again for the information and for being interested in the outcome.

Kathy

Kathy the park owner is not giving your issue the priority it deserves. I'm sure it's because she has no idea of the seriousness but nonetheless that is not an excuse. Sending Silly Sam out to say you're good to go when you could burn down your RV or worse is inexcusable.

I don't know what your relationship is with her or how you want to approach the issue but I would not live with it. It is not only very dangerous it is a safety violation. I would tell her you need a certified electrician and new receptacle today (or as soon as a good electrician can get there). I would then advise in the absence of that you will ask for assistance from the code enforcement division of the city of Tucson. They may or may not be able to help you depending on city codes and statutes but I suspect it will light a fire under the owner because if they do have jurisdiction and come out and inspect the park it could cost them a bundle.

https://www.tucsonaz.gov/code-enforcement

[flybouy]

Sounds to me like you need to find a different park to stay in. Everything so far sounds inexcusable, dangerous, and likely in violation of codes.

[wiredgeorge]

Many RV parks are in the boonies. I wonder what codes apply? I live in a pretty rural area and we have no codes except for septic systems; county has you pull a permit to install. No codes for building, electrical, etc. If there were an RV park across from me I suspect they would have to pull a permit for the septic but power? Buildings? I doubt it. I am sure that parks in municipalities have all sorts of codes and permits to contend with which may be why there are so many parks outside areas with these things. Best to do with this gal's situation is move to another park where they care about doing things properly.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Many RV parks are in the boonies. I wonder what codes apply? I live in a pretty rural area and we have no codes except for septic systems; county has you pull a permit to install. No codes for building, electrical, etc. If there were an RV park across from me I suspect they would have to pull a permit for the septic but power? Buildings? I doubt it. I am sure that parks in municipalities have all sorts of codes and permits to contend with which may be why there are so many parks outside areas with these things. Best to do with this gal's situation is move to another park where they care about doing things properly.

National codes still apply. If an area is sparsely populated then they likely do not have code enforcement. If your nearest neighbor is 5 miles away and you jury rig the electric in your house and burn it down you don't pose a threat to others. Typically the densely populated an are is the stricter the codes (codes that are added to to the national codes) and the more resources available to pay for a building dept. and code enforcement. I doubt that a liscenced electrician or plumber would perform work that didn't meet code for fear of loosing their liscenced or being sued if things went bad an an injury, death, or property damage was a result.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Many RV parks are in the boonies. I wonder what codes apply? I live in a pretty rural area and we have no codes except for septic systems; county has you pull a permit to install. No codes for building, electrical, etc. If there were an RV park across from me I suspect they would have to pull a permit for the septic but power? Buildings? I doubt it. I am sure that parks in municipalities have all sorts of codes and permits to contend with which may be why there are so many parks outside areas with these things. Best to do with this gal's situation is move to another park where they care about doing things properly.

There's a difference in residential and commercial facilities... When it comes to a campground, if it's an "up and up" business, they need liability insurance to protect themselves from losing everything in the first situation... I don't know of any insurance company that will underwrite a business unless they meet "minimum standards established by the insurance company". Most would word the policy to say something like, "Meets minimum local commercial codes".. If there are no "minimum local codes, I'd suspect the insurance company would "clearly define those requirements" to protect themselves as well as the businesses they insure.. Otherwise, there'd be no State Farm, Allstate or other commercial insurance... They'd be "bankrupt after the first kid fell off a bicycle in a pothole inside the campground"....

There are "minimum standards imposed by many agencies other than the local building commission"....

I can't imagine a campground without liability insurance and I can't imagine a reputable insurance company ignoring minimum standards on any business they insure.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by KathyAnn

My plan is to hire an RV electrician. I can return the surge protector.
How I happened to plug my 30 amp plug into a 50 amp pedestal was me telling the person at the RV park that my trailer needed a 30 amp pedestal and him saying 'no it doesn't; it's just fine to plug a 30 amp RV into a 50 amp pedestal and I completely believed him. Have not yet had the pleasure to educate him so in the future he doesn't say that to a person again.
Thanks again for your time.

Welcome to RV life. If you are not mechanically inclined, you have a bit of steep learning curve but luckily there are a number of resources available for free. This forum is one. The advice from sourdough of updating your "signature" will make it easier for fellow owners to provide answers to questions without spending hours or days going back and forth getting the details on your RV. Make, Model and year can be very helpful.
There are a number of other resources that have specialized info on Tires or Electricity.It might be a good idea to curl up with a cup of coffee and do some general reading on RV maintenance. I can't help with the problem of some people, like your campground advisor, who think they understand your question but in reality have no clue.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by KathyAnn

I am so grateful to all who posted replies. I found the information extremely helpful.

It's shocking what happened today.

The park owner said an electrician would be out today.(finally) I expected to see the same electric company trucks that have been here before, but no, some guy in a truck showed up.

The electric company that used to service the park was owned by the park owner's boyfriend and they broke up a few months ago.

After I turned on the outside breaker at the poll the guy uses a simple voltage meter and says 'there's power' and began to look for my RV power cord. I said I'm not plugging in my RV; I showed him the exposed metal on the receptacle port like you showed me and told him the receptacle needed to be replaced. He said something like "i don't know; there's power'

I then got my RV circuit analyzer I just purchased and plugged it into the receptacle. 2 yellows and a Red came on and he says "see there's power" OMG. As I pointed to the chart on the analyzer I told him it says Open Neutral; he didn't know what that was.

Then I said "Look, the ground wire is not connected at all"; it had come out when I removed some installation that surrounded the pedestal before I took the picture I posted here. And he didn't seem to know about the green wire.

OMG! I am so shaken I screamed at him to get out of here and called the park owner.

The park owner says in the morning Oscar the electrician is coming.

I just wish tonight she'd get back with her electrician boyfriend.

In Jan I'll have the resources to buy and install the EMS-HW30c. Until then I'll monitor the pedestal daily and I will do things to keep the power draw as low as possible. I also bought a non-contact voltage detector.

Thanks again for the information and for being interested in the outcome.

Kathy

Whoever shows up to "fix" the electrical problem, I would first ask what company he works for and if he has liability insurance and understands the difference between RV electric needs and stick built home electrical needs. They are not the same. IMO it is the RV Park's responsibility to have properly wired pedestals with beakers and sockets in good working order. Clearly your pedestal has a problem. The park owes you a new plug and cable and should cover the cost of replacement.

[Yvon Royer]

Originally Posted by KathyAnn

Thank you for reading my post.

A person told me there was no problem plugging in a RV 30 amp into a 50 amp pedestal. Well, now I know you need to get the adapter and surge protector.

While there was some melting on the plug, the trailer had only a little flicker of lights when I shut off the power. The computers and monitors were on fine.

I believe I only need to replace the plug, not the cord, and, of course, now use the adapter and surge protector.

I wondering if anyone who has real knowledge agrees with my belief or not.

Thank you in advance.
Kathy

There will always be inherent risks when doing this. It’s because the 30-A cable and plug designed for 30-A is now protected by a 50-A circuit breaker. Add to this that the rated current of cables and plugs is evaluated for an ambient temperature of 30 deg C (86 Deg F) so if you are in a hot climate, your cable is already handling more current than is safe even from a 30-A circuit. The trailer next to me had his cable start a fire at the plug this summer doing just this. The ambient temperature reached 44 deg C at the time. The best practice is to be sure cable and plug are not directly exposed to direct sunlight if you intend to do this; reduce unnecessary power consumption too.

Good luck!

Yvon Royer
Cougar 285EFS

PS: I would never connect my 30A cable through a 50-A adapter although I know it’s a common practice.

[CedarCreekWoody]

KathyAnn there is no problem with plugging a 30 amp camper into a 50 amp pedestal provided you use a proper adapter (and you can't plug it in without the adapter.) Your camper is protected by a 30 amp circuit breaker so you will not pull over 30 amps even though the circuit is capable of providing more. Your issues were caused by other problems, described above, and not because you connected to a 50 amp circuit.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

Your issues were caused by other problems, described above, and not because you connected to a 50 amp circuit.

Yeah, this is worth emphasizing, because we didn't stress it enough. There is no risk in connecting a 30A camper to a 50A receptacle (through an adapter, obviously) if the socket is wired properly.

You could just as easily have had similar damage from hooking up to a 30A receptacle that was wired equally improperly.