New to the Forum

[Docj1981]

Hello All!

We recently purchased a 2021 Cougar Half-Ton towable Fifth Wheel 32BHS and will be towing it with a 2021 6.2L Silverado 1500. I did alot of research before buying and certainly appreciated all the information coming from the Forum. We have been using a 2016 FR Vibe bumper pull - but this will be our first experience with a 5'er. Towed home just fine (of course the MPG was terrible!).

I still have concerns that I will be happy with the half-ton truck pulling it, but I'm going to give it a shot. Any comments from you about experience you have with a similar setup would be appreciated!

We have a trip planned for late June to Colorado so that should be a real test.

Two things I know I need to do before we leave - replace the tires (thinking about Carlisle) and do something about the Capital grill in the outdoor kitchen based on all the bad reviews on the forum. Anything else come to mind?

Looking forward to any feedback!!!

[Texas Steve]

Doc,

Just have to ask what the payload capacity of your 2021 Silverado 1500 is? That trailer is GVWR of 11,500 put your pin weight at around 2645 pounds (23% of GVWR). That's without hitch or passengers in the truck. My 2500 HD does not even have that payload capacity. What does the yellow and black sticker inside the driver door jamb say for payload capacity?

[wiredgeorge]

Welcome! Shouldn't take you long to figure out you are way over payload and that the term "1/2 ton towable" is sort of a marketing gimmick with no basis in the real world. You are moving into one ton tow vehicle land with your new camper so take it easy and be very careful on the road. Good luck!

[sourdough]

You need to look at that door sticker for your payload. You will be overloaded...by a LOT I figure. That's an almost 36', 11,500 lb. 5th wheel you're dropping on a 1/2 ton.

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/32BHS

Figure from 2400-2700lbs. for pin weight alone. I suspect that will exceed the payload of your truck and you have no one/nothing in it. With a bunkhouse RV I figure you have kids. Overloaded that much could very well put you all in danger.

Post back with that payload and we'll see where we are.

[Docj1981]

According to the info they gave me and what I can find online, the "hitch weight" is 1570.

I don't have access to the truck right now, but I think the payload was around 1700.

I am also in the process of a mild suspension upgrade. I pulled the camper home with no problems maintaining speed, no "bumping" the overload springs, and no braking issues. Pulled as well as my 35 foot bumper pull (with a GMC 5.3L) with about the same gas mileage.

I talked with a guy locally with a similar setup who said he didn't have any issues (other than gas mileage) with pulling his 5th wheel with a half ton. However, I didn't post to the Forum since I wasn't a member yet.

Admittedly, the posts so far have me concerned!

[notanlines]

Doc, first, welcome to the forum! Second, good advice so far. You are way beyond a half ton towable RV for safe operation.

[travelin texans]

Several things that cause concern;
Any/all weights listed online or brochures are no where near real-world numbers, the "no issues" response from "that guy" who may have nothing to compare it to & just the fact that it's too much rv for any brand of 1/2 ton.
I know GM upped their 1/2 ton payloads recently, but I don't think it will be enough with this rv.
As for "that guy", is he new to rving? How much, if any, experience does he have towing anything long, tall & heavy ? What, if anything, can he compare his towing experience to?
There are several on here giving you great advice that have years of experience towing RVs & other trailers of all kinds to which their advice would possibly bear more weight than "that guys" limited experience.
Regardless of any suspension upgrades you may do it DOES NOT/WILL NOT change whatever numbers are posted on the driver's door of YOUR truck. If anything they will further reduce your payload capacity by the weight of the upgrades. Unless it's done by someone that can legally change the specs & post them on YOUR truck, even then, all you will have done is added stiffer suspension to a 1/2 ton truck.
Will your 1/2 ton "tow" it? You bet it will with no problem.
Can your 1/2 ton safely "carry" that much weight? Highly unlikely!

[Docj1981]

Make no mistake - I greatly appreciate the collective wisdom of the forum. That's why I posted.

As for "that guy" - yes, he is a long-time rver with experience with both TT and FW setups. Having said that, I don't know the specifics of his current fifth wheel. I do value his opinion, as I do the posters to the forum.

Sounds like I need more truck or less camper - both present challenges in the current market for sure.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Docj1981

According to the info they gave me and what I can find online, the "hitch weight" is 1570.

I don't have access to the truck right now, but I think the payload was around 1700.

I am also in the process of a mild suspension upgrade. I pulled the camper home with no problems maintaining speed, no "bumping" the overload springs, and no braking issues. Pulled as well as my 35 foot bumper pull (with a GMC 5.3L) with about the same gas mileage.

I talked with a guy locally with a similar setup who said he didn't have any issues (other than gas mileage) with pulling his 5th wheel with a half ton. However, I didn't post to the Forum since I wasn't a member yet.

Admittedly, the posts so far have me concerned!

As part of the BTDT (been there done that) club, I can relate to how it feels to hear your truck is not likely up to snuff to pull the trailer you have.

As has been touched on, one of your main (but not only) concerns will be the payload capacity of your truck. Once you get a chance to look at the rating on that yellow/black/white sticker on the driver's side door jamb, subtract the following from it:

2645 lbs for pin weight (23% of your trailer's GVWR of 11.5K)
100 lbs for the hitch
??? lbs for you
??? lbs for any pets traveling in the vehicle
??? lbs for any other passengers that will be in the vehicle
??? for any additional gear in the cab or bed of the truck

I suspect that you will be well into negative territory after doing these calculations.

When Keystone says '1/2 ton towable', what they really mean is a properly equipped 1/2 ton. An example of 'properly equipped' truck would be the Ford F150, with both the max tow and the heavy duty payload package (HDPP) option. On top of that it would need to be a stripped down 'XL' trim level in a regular cab configuration. You won't find one of these sitting on the lot, but if you did, the payload would be in the 2500-3K range.....possibly enough for this 5'ver on paper, and good enough by legal standards to be able to say '1/2 ton towable', I guess.

Finally, regarding the difference in published pin weight to what you are seeing here on the forum is that it's generally the rule of thumb to calculate pin weight (or trailer tongue weight) on the trailer's GVWR - not it's dry weight. While you may not pack the trailer up to its GVWR, this gives you a built in fudge factor/safety cushion when making calculations.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Docj1981

According to the info they gave me and what I can find online, the "hitch weight" is 1570.

I don't have access to the truck right now, but I think the payload was around 1700.

I am also in the process of a mild suspension upgrade. I pulled the camper home with no problems maintaining speed, no "bumping" the overload springs, and no braking issues. Pulled as well as my 35 foot bumper pull (with a GMC 5.3L) with about the same gas mileage.

I talked with a guy locally with a similar setup who said he didn't have any issues (other than gas mileage) with pulling his 5th wheel with a half ton. However, I didn't post to the Forum since I wasn't a member yet.

Admittedly, the posts so far have me concerned!

Your statement that I bolded should be enough to testify that the truck is overloaded. How severly? Go load it all up and visit a Cat scale. Then you'll know, not guess.If payload is 1,700 lbs and DRY pin is ADVERTZED as 1570 lbs then 1,700 - 1,570 = 130 lbs. I bet the hitch in the bed weights more than 130 lbs. And those numbers are not real numbers. You haven't even added a thing, not a thing inside the camper or truck yet.

Do yourself a favor and get the REAL FACTS by visiting a CAT SCALE with the truck and trailer realistically loaded as it would be for typical use. My guess, you are WAY over weight on that 1/2 ton truck. Good Luck and stay safe.

[wiredgeorge]

I gotta find that F150 with a 3500 lb payload. Have we seen anyone with over 1700 lbs payload to date? I am trying to remember but can't. Keystone! The 1/2 ton label is shameful and now you are coming out with the Arcadia 3/4 ton towable. Why not just give people straight info and I suppose all the makers do this crappy exaggeration! Every manufacturer stated pin or tongue weight I see is absolutely a joke. The new Arcadia 3/4 Ton Towable 5th wheel is 13500 lbs gross weight and they have the hitch weight listed on the Keystone website at 1880. I reckon it will be north of 3100 lbs loaded. Then folks do their research and actually believe any of this stuff... incredible that Keystone would go this far to sell campers to the unsuspecting.

[Docj1981]

Thank you to all who have replied in a very short time period! The sense of community on the forum is amazing and welcomed. Especially appreciated the Been There Done That comment. Gives me some solace as I wallow in my ignorance.

I definitely see I should have done more homework prior to my purchase. Should have known it was too good to be true. Signing up for the forum first would have been a great first step!!

I will begin looking at my options - none seem good right now. I think I see another new truck in my near future (if I can find one!).

Thanks again to all!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Docj1981

Thank you to all who have replied in a very short time period! The sense of community on the forum is amazing and welcomed. Especially appreciated the Been There Done That comment. Gives me some solace as I wallow in my ignorance.

I definitely see I should have done more homework prior to my purchase. Should have known it was too good to be true. Signing up for the forum first would have been a great first step!!

I will begin looking at my options - none seem good right now. I think I see another new truck in my near future (if I can find one!).

Thanks again to all!

Hope you understand WHY folks are quick to point out how a tow vehicle can be overloaded. My first camper was a truck camper and I had it sitting on an F150 and payload was so overloaded it was incredible. The brochure said it would fit on a 1/2 ton. I didn't know at the time there were forums or other sources of credible info. Truck camper sold. F150 sold. Went to an F250 and thought it could pull the Queen Mary. Now have an F350. As an impoverished retiree (well sort of as I own a business) I bought a 2006 diesel so not to be caught under trucked (is that a word)? I bought cheap and knew i had to plunk some money into it and did and we are good now. I think most of the folks are in the "been there/ done that" camp.

[JRTJH]

I agree completely with Marshall's recommendation to just "stop all the speculation and deal with FACTS"....

How do you get the FACTS????

The nearest CAT Scale to Van Buren is located here:
Heartland Express
US Hwy 67 & Hwy M
Poplar Bluff, MO 63901

I'd urge you to drive the 35 miles, spend the $13 and KNOW THE FACTS....

Anything else is simply putting yourself, your family and all those who travel the same public roads at risk.... That's not a smart thing to do to people who depend on you to do your part to keep them safe.....

[notanlines]

And let's give credit to two members right now. How about Markcee for catching on to reality so fast and being able to communicate important info to a new member!! And to Doc to show the true colors of his attitude and ability to accept new (and unpopular) ideas...

[sourdough]

Doc, like many on the forum I'm in the BTDT class. I'm also in the group that grew up when there was no internet, no "payload" discussions and no worries if the truck, whatever it might have been, would make it roll. Overloaded trucks with trailers, slide ins and probably my "girth" later in life.

Part of the BTDT experience; the worry for folks new to towing or folks upsizing in RVs and their thoughts (what they've been told/heard) of "it's a beast, it will pull it"; "it's 1/2 ton towable"; max tow is a "zillion" pounds; and on it goes. And the reality is that it probably will "pull" it....make it roll. That validates in many folks minds that they DO have that "beast"; that "towing machine". Nothing could be further from the truth.

I have been tapped on the shoulder many times telling me I should not be towing overloaded and I survived those times (at times barely)....and I learned (slowly). My and those like myself only want you to be safe; to be within your weight limits. You won't be and looks like not by a long shot. That is very problematic. You apparently have kids/grandkids. Their safety should be paramount above everything else...money included. I and many others have taken "baths", deep ones, when upgrading trucks to match a trailer....you are in that position. Your family trusts you to take care of them. That burden does not rest with "a friend that tows heavy"; "the internet"; "I heard" etc. The NUMBERS don't lie. They are what they are and we then use them or ignore them. Good luck.

[spicercars]

Welcome from northern MN.

[Gary R.]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Congrats on your new Cougar!

Have fun and stay safe!

[P&DZ]

Docj,
You mentioned in your original post a trip to Colorado. I suspect you will be towing over some very high (elevation) and difficult mountain passes, the elevation of the Eisenhower tunnel on 1-70 is 11,158. If you decide to take that trip with your current setup be very careful, take it slow, watch your speed and use all of your available gears. As a Colorado resident I speak from experience. I tow a 25ft TT, CAT scale weight loaded at 6,600lb with a GMC1500 and yellow sticker payload of 1925. I would NOT put anything heavier behind my truck in Colorado. Be safe!

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Docj1981

I did alot of research before buying and certainly appreciated all the information coming from the Forum.

This depresses me. I've always thought that the sure way to reduce the weight police load would be for new RVers to somehow encounter the forum, with all its weight discussions, before making their purchase decision. But my optimism in this solution has taken a hit.

Originally Posted by Docj1981

I definitely see I should have done more homework prior to my purchase. Should have known it was too good to be true. Signing up for the forum first would have been a great first step!!

OK, looks like I may have misinterpreted that first quote. My faith is restored. Unfortunately, the "solution" is still wildly impractical.