Power Issue with Slideout

[Marineman]

Good afternoon Mates,

I have a 2017 Keystone Cougar 24SAB. We got home from camping last weekend and the slideout stopped working. I've had the unit for almost 5 years with no issue until now.

I've done a bunch of trouble shooting and I'm getting close to figuring out what's wrong and need some help to finish this up.

Here's what I've done so far:

1. I've determined it's not the switch. My awning and slideout switches are identical so I just swapped them to make the test.

2. My batteries are fully charged and working great. I removed both batteries and tested them on my charger. Both of them were 13.3 volts.

3. I've replaced the "Auto Reset Breaker".

4. I removed the motor and did a live test with one of my batteries, attaching one wire to hot and one to ground. The motor fired right up.

5. I've tested the wires coming into the switch and here's where the problem is. I'm getting a low voltage reading and the continuity reading is bad. I also got the same readings when the motor was disconnected.

It looks like I have an issue from the battery to the switch, and it's not the auto reset breaker. What's weird is I did get a better voltage reading after replacing the breaker but it dropped after trying the switch to see if it worked.

I've also tested the switch when pushing it to move the slide. The voltage drops when I push the button to move the slide and this doesn't happen when I test the awing. There is no power variation when when I tested the awning.

I'm thinking I may have a grounding issue as there are no shorts because no fuses have blown.

Any help on this would be awesome.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Marineman

Good afternoon Mates,

I have a 2017 Keystone Cougar 24SAB. We got home from camping last weekend and the slideout stopped working. I've had the unit for almost 5 years with no issue until now.

I've done a bunch of trouble shooting and I'm getting close to figuring out what's wrong and need some help to finish this up.

Here's what I've done so far:

1. I've determined it's not the switch. My awning and slideout switches are identical so I just swapped them to make the test.

2. My batteries are fully charged and working great. I removed both batteries and tested them on my charger. Both of them were 13.3 volts.

3. I've replaced the "Auto Reset Breaker".

4. I removed the motor and did a live test with one of my batteries, attaching one wire to hot and one to ground. The motor fired right up.

5. I've tested the wires coming into the switch and here's where the problem is. I'm getting a low voltage reading and the continuity reading is bad. I also got the same readings when the motor was disconnected.

It looks like I have an issue from the battery to the switch, and it's not the auto reset breaker. What's weird is I did get a better voltage reading after replacing the breaker but it dropped after trying the switch to see if it worked.

I've also tested the switch when pushing it to move the slide. The voltage drops when I push the button to move the slide and this doesn't happen when I test the awing. There is no power variation when when I tested the awning.

I'm thinking I may have a grounding issue as there are no shorts because no fuses have blown.

Any help on this would be awesome.

Can you try adding a temporary ground wire to the motor and see if that works?

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Can you try adding a temporary ground wire to the motor and see if that works?

Try this or I would get two lengths of wire, set a battery on the floor and feed the switch with the battery. If it works then the circuit from the switch to the motors is ok. You can use a good 12v power tool battery as well to test. If that works, then I'd take a length of wire long enough to attach to the trailer ground and jumper it to the switch and if that works you know where to look.

If you jumper the switch with a known good ground then use that to test the voltage to the switch. A description like "low voltage" doesn't reveal; as much as giving us the actual voltage readings. Good luck.

[Marineman]

Thanks for the replies.

Nothing like having a great neighbor to help you out in times like this. I asked him if he knew about electrical issues with an RV as he has one. They just moved in so I wasn't sure, but he said, Yep, let me come over and see what the problem is.

So I told him that I thought I might have a grounding issue with the slide out. He said, easy, just ground your multimeter to another place on the camper (He used the door jam rivet right next to the panel). Then placed the hot lead to the switch and the issue was the same. So no problem with the ground.

He told me I need to bypass the hot lead to the switch as there is definitely a problem with power to the switch. I'm thinking I may end up eliminating the hot lead that goes to the auto reset switch because there is no way I can dig into the RV to find where the wire is compromised. My unit is built for the Northwest and the entire underbelly is closed.

So I think I'm going to buy 40 feet of wire and run it directly from the auto reset switch to the panel. And if this works, I'll run this same wire with my own conduit so the job looks professional.

I do have one other strange problem with this. When I disconnect the wire from the 30 amp auto reset switch by the batteries, I still have a low voltage reading at the panel switch. And I know what you might think; do I have the right wire? There is only 1 purple 10 AWG wire in my entire unit and even my neighbor saw this.

There might be another junction in the wire somewhere in my RV, but again, not sure where that would be. Even the schematic shows that wire going to the panel switch directly from the auto reset switch, with no breaks or junctions.

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Try this or I would get two lengths of wire, set a battery on the floor and feed the switch with the battery. If it works then the circuit from the switch to the motors is ok. You can use a good 12v power tool battery as well to test. If that works, then I'd take a length of wire long enough to attach to the trailer ground and jumper it to the switch and if that works you know where to look.

If you jumper the switch with a known good ground then use that to test the voltage to the switch. A description like "low voltage" doesn't reveal; as much as giving us the actual voltage readings. Good luck.

I just purchased 50 ft of 10 gauge MTW wire and I'm going to do the test later today.

I'm going to run that wire from the auto reset breaker strait to the panel switch for the slide out. Crossing my fingers that this will do the trick.

[flybouy]

One other note. You replaced auto reset breaker. Did you look at the terminals? There is a battery sideand a load side that should be marked on the case.

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by flybouy

One other note. You replaced auto reset breaker. Did you look at the terminals? There is a battery sideand a load side that should be marked on the case.

Yes, I connected the right wires to the correct poles.

[Marineman]

Here's the update:

I ran a wire from the auto reset breaker to the switch, bypassing the factory installed wire.

What I don't understand is there was still a low voltage reading on the factory wire, even after being disconnected. Is there some type of rely or connection inbetween the auto reset breaker and the switch?

So after I finished connecting the wire onto the the red pigtail with the 15 amp fuse (which goes to the auto reset breaker) and then to my switch at the panel I took a reading. Had a full voltage reading so I was ready to move the slide.

Pushed the button, the slide out moved like a champ. I was happy, but not ready to claim victory yet. I wanted to make sure I could move the slide in and then back out before drawing a conclusion.

Well, on the way back in power suddenly fails. I checked the 15 amp fuse and it's blown. I put another fuse in there, same thing.

So I am in a quandary. I believe my problem lies in the factory wire and there must be some kind of transfer of power that keeps the unit from blowing a fuse. Also, the unit never blew that fuse when it was hooked up to the original wire. Could be a short as well, but no spark happens when I hook up the wires to the auto reset breaker (yes, I have hooked it up hot).

The schematic I have shows no break in the wire from the auto reset breaker, but that diagram is generic and not factory specific to my trailer.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Marineman

Here's the update:

I ran a wire from the auto reset breaker to the switch, bypassing the factory installed wire.

What I don't understand is there was still a low voltage reading on the factory wire, even after being disconnected. Is there some type of rely or connection inbetween the auto reset breaker and the switch?

So after I finished connecting the wire onto the the red pigtail with the 15 amp fuse (which goes to the auto reset breaker) and then to my switch at the panel I took a reading. Had a full voltage reading so I was ready to move the slide.

Pushed the button, the slide out moved like a champ. I was happy, but not ready to claim victory yet. I wanted to make sure I could move the slide in and then back out before drawing a conclusion.

Well, on the way back in power suddenly fails. I checked the 15 amp fuse and it's blown. I put another fuse in there, same thing.

So I am in a quandary. I believe my problem lies in the factory wire and there must be some kind of transfer of power that keeps the unit from blowing a fuse. Also, the unit never blew that fuse when it was hooked up to the original wire. Could be a short as well, but no spark happens when I hook up the wires to the auto reset breaker (yes, I have hooked it up hot).

The schematic I have shows no break in the wire from the auto reset breaker, but that diagram is generic and not factory specific to my trailer.

15 amp fuse? That's 1/2 of the minimum fuse I've seen for a slide out. My circuit breaker is a 30 amp, some trail;ers use a 50 amp for the slides.

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by flybouy

15 amp fuse? That's 1/2 of the minimum fuse I've seen for a slide out. My circuit breaker is a 30 amp, some trail;ers use a 50 amp for the slides.

The "auto reset breaker" is a 30 amp. The hot lead from the breaker has an inline fuse, which is 15 amp, which then connects to the line that goes to the panel. The slide seemed to work fine until I was close to getting it all the way in.

I've read other peoples comments about this and they said that a slide out uses more power if it needs adjustment and this can blow these fuses. I do notice that there is a struggle when the slide out reaches the last couple of feet before sealing.

[JRTJH]

It could be corrosion in the slide motor or the contacts/connections "at the slide motor" or corrosion/loose contacts in the wiring from the relay CONTACTS (not relay energizing connections)... I would expect the "downhill extension" of the slide to take less amperage than the "uphill retraction" of the slide. As for a 15 amp fuse??? I've seen some "slide systems with relays" that fuse the "switch/relay side" of the circuit with a 15 amp fuse and the "relay contacts/motor side" of the circuit with a 30 or 40 amp mini-breaker.... I've never seen a "slide motor protected by a 15 amp single use fuse"....

I'd suspect that you have a "battery to slide switch wiring that controls a relay" and a "relay contact wiring that controls the slide motor"...

Measuring voltage on the "switch side of the relay" doesn't measure or have any effect on the amperage draw on the contact side of the relay"....

ADDED: Take a look at the wiring diagram/schematic in the Lippert Slide Manual: https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001614.pdf While it doesn't have a separate 15 amp fuse or a relay, it is probably the same wiring that's on your trailer. The diagram on page 12 shows both the "old and new" wiring diagrams... I'm not sure which applies to your slide.

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

It could be corrosion in the slide motor or the contacts/connections "at the slide motor" or corrosion/loose contacts in the wiring from the relay CONTACTS (not relay energizing connections)... I would expect the "downhill extension" of the slide to take less amperage than the "uphill retraction" of the slide. As for a 15 amp fuse??? I've seen some "slide systems with relays" that fuse the "switch/relay side" of the circuit with a 15 amp fuse and the "relay contacts/motor side" of the circuit with a 30 or 40 amp mini-breaker.... I've never seen a "slide motor protected by a 15 amp single use fuse"....

I'd suspect that you have a "battery to slide switch wiring that controls a relay" and a "relay contact wiring that controls the slide motor"...

Measuring voltage on the "switch side of the relay" doesn't measure or have any effect on the amperage draw on the contact side of the relay"....

I've completely removed the motor and tested it by connecting the battery +/- terminals to the wires. The motor fired right up. Also, the connections looked great.

The hot lead for the slide goes directly to the 30 amp auto reset breaker, which I replaced. (The old one was good but I replaced it anyway). From the auto reset breaker is the inline fuse, which is 15 amp, and then connects to the line which goes to the panel switch.

So the path is; 2 12 volt batteries (fully charged), 30 amp auto reset breaker, inline 15 amp fuse, line to panel switch.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Marineman

...

So the path is; 2 12 volt batteries (fully charged), 30 amp auto reset breaker, inline 15 amp fuse, line to panel switch.

The inline fuse is (to me) the puzzler.... Why is it there??? The Lippert wiring diagrams don't show an inline fuse, so does your slide system "include a relay that's not shown on the Lippert wiring" ???

Typically, the wiring is "like what's in the manual I linked above"... If you've got a 15 amp fuse "somewhere in the wiring" I'd do some circuit analysis to try to determine "where in the wiring" that fuse is really inserted..... And, if that fuse keeps blowing, then WHERE is critical to determining WHY.....

A puzzling mess for sure.....

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

ADDED: Take a look at the wiring diagram/schematic in the Lippert Slide Manual: https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001614.pdf While it doesn't have a separate 15 amp fuse or a relay, it is probably the same wiring that's on your trailer. The diagram on page 12 shows both the "old and new" wiring diagrams... I'm not sure which applies to your slide.

I have that exact manual in my package of paperwork. And you're right, there is no 15 amp fuse in the line. Maybe Keystone put that in when they assembled the unit.

[JRTJH]

I'd be very reluctant to "just cut the fuse out"... If you do that, it might work well for a few cycles, then, if the motor binds or draws too much amperage, it might "just simply fry your entire wiring harness" rather than blow that 15 amp fuse.... Without knowing FOR SURE, exactly what its purpose is and exactly what it protects, removing it may cause more problems than what you have already.....

As for "Keystone putting it in", yes, they probably did... But, was it to solve a problem seen on other units or was it to "wire in another circuit on the slide wiring" or ?????

I suppose this is just one more example of why "Keystone does not participate in providing technical drawings to the public"....

[flybouy]

My earlier suggestion was to power the switch directly from the battery. If it worked then the the problem is between the battery and the switch. If it doesn't work the the problem is inbetween the switch and the motor possibly including both. At least you will have it isolated to 1/2 of the wireing.

[Javi]

Don't know if I read this right or not... But did you say that there is voltage on the positive side even when not hooked to a power source???

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by Javi

Don't know if I read this right or not... But did you say that there is voltage on the positive side even when not hooked to a power source???

That is correct. It's only about 4 volts, which was the same reading when it was hooked up and why the slide wouldn't move or even make the motor click. And we verified more times than I can count that that wire is the same wire to the slide switch in the panel.

And when I had the full 13 volt current, the slide would move, so this also verified we had the right wire.

And to make sure this wire wasn't hooked up to any other DC circuits I turned on all DC lights, thermostat, fridge, heater, radio, etc., and everything worked with the wire disconnected, so I know it's not a wire to something else.

And, I did a voltage test on the other end when it was disconnected, as voltage should run to both ends if the line is shorting out, but nothing. Only on the switch end. So, I'm just going to cap off that line and run a wire directly from the auto reset breaker to fix my unit.

Also keep in mind, no fuses or breakers have been triggered, even when the slide stopped working. The only fuse that failed was the 15 amp fuse in the pigtail to the breaker. I put a 30 amp fuse in and the slide works perfect.

I've also checked all the wires for heat when I was moving the slide both directions and no problem whatsoever.

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The inline fuse is (to me) the puzzler.... Why is it there??? The Lippert wiring diagrams don't show an inline fuse, so does your slide system "include a relay that's not shown on the Lippert wiring" ???

Typically, the wiring is "like what's in the manual I linked above"... If you've got a 15 amp fuse "somewhere in the wiring" I'd do some circuit analysis to try to determine "where in the wiring" that fuse is really inserted..... And, if that fuse keeps blowing, then WHERE is critical to determining WHY.....

A puzzling mess for sure.....

I called a very reputable RV repair shop here in town today, who is a Keystone warranty assigned shop, and she told me that that 15 amp fuse was put in by the Keystone factory that builds these TT. She also said that you wouldn't believe some of the things they do that don't add up in the end.

I told her I was going to try a 30 amp fuse to see if this would fix my problem. So, I did this and no problems whatsoever. The slide works perfect.

We did it several times, checking the wires for any heat or signs of stress and everything checked out fine. I've also been wrenching on machinery and equipment for 50 years and I understand the dynamics of electricity. That slide requires more than 15 amps when bringing it in and I'm surprised it hasn't blown this fuse before.

And also remember, I still have the 30 amp auto reset breaker in case things get hot. Also connected to this same breaker is my power jack, with no fuse.

Since running my new wire strait from the auto reset breaker, not only does it work, the slide runs more efficiently and quicker. I had noticed that it was bogging out lately and thought that's just the way it is so when it stopped working I wasn't surprised.

I'm really puzzled by the original wire and there's no telling what's wrong with it. Even the lady at the RV repair shop said those wires are in the most precarious places and finding out what's wrong is next to impossible unless you break into the walls.

And just like the schematic you found, nowhere does it say that there is a 15 amp fuse in the line. Not in the diagram or the description.

[skids]

Be aware that I have not looked at schematics for slides. One thing is almost certain to me, the switch on the controller will not handle the full 30 amps of the slide motor. It will only send lower current to a relay switch to activate the high current side. The toggle switch would of course need a fuse for protecting that lower amperage wire. That is what the 15amp fuse is all about.