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11-05-2019, 10:27 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 60
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Keystone design flaw
Has anyone purchased a 2020 27sgs Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton? Reason I am asking is that I went to look at one(they are hard to find) and with the opposing
slides out the end table doors in the back on each side of the chairs have doors that cant open all the way.They hit the slide. One on right is just useless opens about 2 in. One on left opens a little more before hitting slide. The design really sucks. Does anyone have a fix for it. I do like the unit but not sure if this is a deal breaker. The 30rls is a little longer and doesn't have that issue..But to heavy for me. If the cabinets were shorter this would work. Keystone has to know that this issue is out there. I would think.
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Beavercreek Ohio
2020 Cougar Half Ton 27 SGS
2009 Silverado 2500 HD
Ext cab short bed
6 liter gas..3:73
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11-05-2019, 02:59 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: radium hot springs bc
Posts: 2,007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Has anyone purchased a 2020 27sgs Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton? Reason I am asking is that I went to look at one(they are hard to find) and with the opposing
slides out the end table doors in the back on each side of the chairs have doors that cant open all the way.They hit the slide. One on right is just useless opens about 2 in. One on left opens a little more before hitting slide. The design really sucks. Does anyone have a fix for it. I do like the unit but not sure if this is a deal breaker. The 30rls is a little longer and doesn't have that issue..But to heavy for me. If the cabinets were shorter this would work. Keystone has to know that this issue is out there. I would think.
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Any chance of removing the doors and installing them upside down on the other side of the opening.
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2018 Ram 3500 6.4 Harvest Edition
2018 Cougar 27RESWE
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11-05-2019, 03:49 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Or
Posts: 172
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This is what happens when the people that design them don't use them.
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11-05-2019, 03:53 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central San Joaguin Valley, CA
Posts: 2,117
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Can you post a picture?
Are the slides opening all the way?
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Jack & Marty
2018 Laredo 298 SRL
2011 F-250 SB Crew Cab 4x4 6.7L
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11-05-2019, 04:03 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Henniker
Posts: 2,141
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I just looked at some interior pics online and the doors that I saw were hinged on the sides closest to the slides. Make it a condition of the purchase that it’s corrected before you pick it up.
On a somewhat related note, there was a post not long ago from someone complaining about the bath medicine cabinet and the way it was installed. I had the same model and one of ours was installed upside down. Still not sure who’s was right, but mine is right for me and that’s what counts
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Rob & Amy
2019 Passport 240BH SL (current)
2024 Cougar 29BHL (on order, due early May)
2022 Ford F250 7.3L Godzilla Crew Cab FX4
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11-05-2019, 04:18 PM
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#6
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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This is just speculation. The 27SGS is a new model for the 2019 year, introduced late in the model year and, as you have said, difficult to find because there just aren't a lot of them built, so not a lot of them on lots and also not a lot of "buyer remarks" for Keystone to consider....
As for how they're built, the cupboards, cabinets and "permanent furniture" (dinette booths, bed frames, etc) are all built "off site" and brought to the assembly line during construction.
What that means is that there's no "fit and finish" that occurs on the line. All the assembly line workers do is "screw the cabinets to the wall per the worksheet and push the trailer down the line to the next station. About 3 or 4 stations later, the slides are installed and trimmed out... So, the cabinets and the slide fascia probably are not "looked at for interference" while on the line...
My guess is that nobody has complained, so nobody at Keystone is aware of the problem. There are several floorplans that have similar issues. There's a Hideout rear kitchen where the pantry door only opens about half way because the slide fascia is in the way, a Bullet (if I remember correctly) where the closet beside the bed won't open because of the closet slide fascia and there's one floorplan (I think a Premier) where the bedroom door beside the entertainment center won't close when the main cabin slide is extended. Keystone installed it to open into the main cabin because the bed was in the way if it opened into the bedroom. The following year, they installed sliding doors to solve the problem.... I've no idea if they retrofitted trailers for owners who complained or not......
Anyway, if you have the concern and it's a issue, then I'd suggest letting Keystone know the problem. Chances are, they either are not aware or have a "workaround" already planned.... Dealers probably will never hear about it unless they have an owner come in and complain, so they may sell 10 of them and never know there was a problem....
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John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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11-06-2019, 04:27 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Lake Stevens
Posts: 764
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The only solution I see is to have the cabinets removed and shorten front to back and reinstalled. Chris
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2019 Laredo 225MK for travel. Bighorn 3575el summer home in Washington, Park Model with Arizona Room for winters.
2015 RAM 3500 SRW CC SB Aisin Laramie
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11-06-2019, 05:44 AM
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#8
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,741
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Thanks for the pic Snoking. Looks like 10 lbs. of "stuff" in a 5 lb. bag to me. If I realy, realy liked and "had to have" that model then I think I'd modify those cabinets with a vertical tambor door. You'd loose some interior space but at least you could access it.
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-06-2019, 06:17 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,327
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If I liked everything else, I wouldn't make this a deal breaker. Truthfully, you'll only store "stuff" in there that you'll never remember is even in there. Go ahead, ask me how I know. Newer RV's are made to have storage just everywhere possible and these little places just collect 'stuff.'
You've gotten some good suggestions, go with it.
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Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
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11-06-2019, 06:53 AM
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#11
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines
If I liked everything else, I wouldn't make this a deal breaker. Truthfully, you'll only store "stuff" in there that you'll never remember is even in there. Go ahead, ask me how I know. Newer RV's are made to have storage just everywhere possible and these little places just collect 'stuff.'
You've gotten some good suggestions, go with it.
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"Stuff" ... Your Blockbuster Video card, your 4" think phone book, Sears & Roebuck Catalog (Christmas edition has the favorite toys circled in red crayon), Ohio blue tip strike anywhere matches, 6 Bic pens (none with ink), a #2 "lead pencil with teeth marks, an empty coke bottle with a "shaker lid" next to a dried up can of Niagara starch flakes. Oh wait a minute, that's our "junk drawer"!
Wiredgeorge.. come quick, pull me back to the present!
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-06-2019, 07:11 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Norwood, CO
Posts: 681
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Looked at it on Keystones site "3D". Looks to me like it wouldn't matter which side the hinges were on the doors would not open fully. I agree not a deal breaker but maybe a nice negotiating point.
After I got it home I would modify the space to have a TOP entry. Like the storage space between seats in my Suburban.
Yes it will just collect little things but is always nice to have somewhere to put them.
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German Shepherd Guy
2018 Keystone 26RBPR
2014 Suburban 2500, 6L with 3.73 rear
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11-06-2019, 07:12 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: South US
Posts: 712
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Maybe 2 of these kits would solve the problem.
https://www.cshardware.com/67-2a-24-...4aAgeiEALw_wcB
The ad shows them as adjustable in width and the veneer looks like it may be able to be stained to match. I'll go one further here, show these to the dealer and have them purchase and install. Much easier than cutting the cabinets or reversing the hinge side of the doors (which from the picture does not appear that it will work).
RMc
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2018 Ram 3500 SRW Aisin Trans. HO CTD
Air Lift Bags -Curt 16K Slider Hitch
2017 Laredo 350 FB
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11-06-2019, 07:17 AM
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#14
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy
Looked at it on Keystones site "3D". Looks to me like it wouldn't matter which side the hinges were on the doors would not open fully. I agree not a deal breaker but maybe a nice negotiating point.
After I got it home I would modify the space to have a TOP entry. Like the storage space between seats in my Suburban.
Yes it will just collect little things but is always nice to have somewhere to put them.
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That was my first thought as well but then thought it's kind of tall and if it has a shelf in it acess from the top would render the shelf useless.
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-06-2019, 07:59 AM
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#15
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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Looking at the 360 views on the Keystone website, a greater concern for me would be whether the recliners can be left "in the usable position" and if the slides will clear them as they're sitting. We had an issue with the roadside slide in our Springdale 242, the chairs were arranged similar to the 27SGS, and we couldn't close the slide unless we turned the chairs to face each other.
It wasn't that big of a deal, but it was an easy thing to forget until the "OH S**T moment"... You know, when you hear the chair crunching as you panic and stop retracting the slide.....
Anyway, looking at the 360 views, it looks like the chairs will not clear the slide fascia. That may be an issue with turning them to face each other, current chairs are often the same depth and width, so even if you turn them, they won't clear the fascia. Pulling them to the center of the room to close the slides is a MAJOR HASSLE....
I'd get the dealer to demonstrate how the chairs/slides/clearance all comes together before making any serious offers on that floorplan.
As to the cabinet doors not clearing, the cabinets are a modular design, probably held to the sidewalls with 4 screws in the sidewall and 4 screws into the floor. Pull those 8 screws, take the cabinet out, trim 4" (or 8") off the back of the cabinet and reinstall it. Not a hard job and something any "handy woodworker" could do in a home garage on a Saturday afternoon.
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John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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11-06-2019, 08:13 AM
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#16
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Looking at the 360 views on the Keystone website, a greater concern for me would be whether the recliners can be left "in the usable position" and if the slides will clear them as they're sitting. We had an issue with the roadside slide in our Springdale 242, the chairs were arranged similar to the 27SGS, and we couldn't close the slide unless we turned the chairs to face each other.
It wasn't that big of a deal, but it was an easy thing to forget until the "OH S**T moment"... You know, when you hear the chair crunching as you panic and stop retracting the slide.....
Anyway, looking at the 360 views, it looks like the chairs will not clear the slide fascia. That may be an issue with turning them to face each other, current chairs are often the same depth and width, so even if you turn them, they won't clear the fascia. Pulling them to the center of the room to close the slides is a MAJOR HASSLE....
I'd get the dealer to demonstrate how the chairs/slides/clearance all comes together before making any serious offers on that floorplan.
As to the cabinet doors not clearing, the cabinets are a modular design, probably held to the sidewalls with 4 screws in the sidewall and 4 screws into the floor. Pull those 8 screws, take the cabinet out, trim 4" (or 8") off the back of the cabinet and reinstall it. Not a hard job and something any "handy woodworker" could do in a home garage on a Saturday afternoon.
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This is a little off topic from the storage cabinet situation but the recliners on the end that John mentions is big topic to us. We have to put our recliners back facing each other and strapped down every time we move the trailer. When setting up we have to pull them out after unstrapping them. It is a real pain. When closing the slides I stand inside and operate the slides making sure they don't hang one of the handles for the footrests. We have determined any future trailer will not have them or the back wall will be deep enough for them to travel sitting as we use them.
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Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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11-06-2019, 08:21 AM
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#17
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,741
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On our unit we have 2 slides on the DS. The "pantry" with it's double hung doors separate the slides. With the slides in you cannot see the pantry. First time we used it traveled down some bumpy roads, doors opened and when powering out the slide CRUNCH!
Fortunately it only pulled the screws out of the hinge on one door and did not damage the door itself. From then on used velcro strap to tie the door handles together before bringing in slides.
Another "looked good on paper" designer moment.
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-06-2019, 04:35 PM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 60
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Thanks
Thanks to all who have replied. This should not have even been a post here but it is ..The design is a complete flaw. Someone didn't do their job.Keystone has to know and will know about this issue. Does Keystone ever read this forum? I did purchase this 5th wheel with a few nice discounts. All of you had some good ideas but Sourdough came up with the same thing I was thinking. both are modules and can be taken out and shortened. Does any body think this would void a warranty? I have a carpenter friend that would give him a good winter project. Thanks again
__________________
Beavercreek Ohio
2020 Cougar Half Ton 27 SGS
2009 Silverado 2500 HD
Ext cab short bed
6 liter gas..3:73
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11-06-2019, 04:52 PM
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#19
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 60
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Yes the chair have to be facing each other before either slide could come in. it is a little scary because moving the slides in will take away your view of the chairs. so need to be real real sure the are in right place and secure.
__________________
Beavercreek Ohio
2020 Cougar Half Ton 27 SGS
2009 Silverado 2500 HD
Ext cab short bed
6 liter gas..3:73
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11-06-2019, 04:58 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Lake Stevens
Posts: 764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
Thanks to all who have replied. This should not have even been a post here but it is ..The design is a complete flaw. Someone didn't do their job.Keystone has to know and will know about this issue. Does Keystone ever read this forum? I did purchase this 5th wheel with a few nice discounts. All of you had some good ideas but Sourdough came up with the same thing I was thinking. both are modules and can be taken out and shortened. Does any body think this would void a warranty? I have a carpenter friend that would give him a good winter project. Thanks again
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Maybe it was me who would suggested shortening them? Chris
__________________
2019 Laredo 225MK for travel. Bighorn 3575el summer home in Washington, Park Model with Arizona Room for winters.
2015 RAM 3500 SRW CC SB Aisin Laramie
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