Failing welds on Pin Box

[jdc5]

The welds holding the pin box to the frame of the 5th wheel have failed. 2 welds are broken completely and it is causing the welds at the back connection to start ripping out of the support beam. Any suggestions.
The attachment shows the weld at the back connection.

[Festus2]

jdc5 -
Questions first....... What year/model of 5th do you have? How did you come to notice these cracking and separating welds? Is your unit still under warranty? Have you contacted both Keystone and your dealer?

[jdc5]

I have a 2007 Keystone Copper Canyon. I have talked to Keystone and they have refered me to the chassis manufacuture - Lippert components. I am currently in the process of trying to talk to someone from Lippert. I noticed that the trim in my closet came off (it is in the front of the 5th wheel) and and started looking around to determine why. that is when I noticed the failed welds.

[Johnnyfry]

How do you reach the welds to physically inspect them? I would really like to check mine out, do I have to rip the front cap off? Is there a way in through the closet?

Thanks for any input

John

[LittleJoe]

That picture is not a failed weld. The tear is actually under the weld.

For this to get to the point shown, I suspect there are several other fail points, allowing a lot of movement to take place. (This is type of failure seen when using goose neck adapters on trailers not designed for gooseneck use)

Do not tow this trailer in present state.

Hopefully Lippert will come through.........

This is a perfect of example of why some sort of energy absorbtion on your pinbox goes a long way to save your trailer on some of our rough roads.

A MorRyde type or air bag or (insert ) take a lot of the impact shock load and reduce stress on pinbox/frame welds etc (as does the shock absorbtion systems now being used on trailer suspensions)

[deeddy0502]

Originally Posted by LittleJoe

That picture is not a failed weld. The tear is actually under the weld.

For this to get to the point shown, I suspect there are several other fail points, allowing a lot of movement to take place. (This is type of failure seen when using goose neck adapters on trailers not designed for gooseneck use)

Do not tow this trailer in present state.

Hopefully Lippert will come through.........

This is a perfect of example of why some sort of energy absorbtion on your pinbox goes a long way to save your trailer on some of our rough roads.

A MorRyde type or air bag or (insert ) take a lot of the impact shock load and reduce stress on pinbox/frame welds etc (as does the shock absorbtion systems now being used on trailer suspensions)

very true this is not the weld that failed, rather the steel structure or beam that it is welded to. this is far more common than most think on lippert frames. after having seen many pics like this, there is also tearing on the inner structure of the upper deck frame. this will require removal of the nose section to see and repair. these sections will need to be removed or repaired and reinforced very well.

you are also right this is why shocks, ez flex equalizer for the leaf springs as well as an air ride pin box help, but if they are not sold ( standard equipment ) that way then why are the frames not built to last as sold and advertised!

check this link out http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/s...ctive-1239.htm scroll down a bit and look for keystone and forest river, not sure why not in the US though.

here are just a few links to a few pics like yours. the damage you will see when yours is opened up might not be to this extreme yet but probably close.....http://www.forestriverforums.com/Pho...=15647&cat=500
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature..._o16KeEE#at=74
http://blog.woodalls.com/2011/09/fra...-homelessness/
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f44/lippe...lure-4181.html



there is a whole lot more of the pics out there on diff forums, a simple search yeilds more than you want to see. looks like more so on toyhaulers though ,which is what i have. i haven't seen this on mine yet but keep a close eye on it through inspection ports with lids i installed. as soon as the weather gets better and the snow leaves i do plan on adding all to mine and have it ready to install.

[deeddy0502]

btw that weld looks a whole lot better than the ones on my pin box and i bought mine new jan 2012.

[ewkearns]

Originally Posted by LittleJoe

That picture is not a failed weld. The tear is actually under the weld.

For this to get to the point shown, I suspect there are several other fail points, allowing a lot of movement to take place. .....snips....

Agreed..... from what I can see in the picture, I would say that this is likely Heat Affected Zone cracking.

If so, the material has to be subject to absorption of hydrogen during the heat cycle: there must be sufficient hydrogen available (poor weld prep or moisture), the grain structure of the material has to be sensitive to hydrogen, and there must be significant induced or inherent stress in the structure (a structure forced into shape during fabrication or subjected to loads greater than the structure can bear).

Again, if so, this is going to be an extensive (and expen$ive) repair.

Please keep us advised......

PS
I'm sure there is a lot if information concerning HAZ cracking on the Net..... it can be fairly common, with less than acceptable industry standard welding procedures....

[Pugtracker]

Cabinets and dressers in bed room pushing up on right side looking in on my 2004 big sky Montana 38 ft. This forum has made me sick on what I may find. Any suggestions please advise?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Pugtracker

Cabinets and dressers in bed room pushing up on right side looking in on my 2004 big sky Montana 38 ft. This forum has made me sick on what I may find. Any suggestions please advise?

Sounds like you may have Frame Flex, as mentioned above, might not help but talk with Keystone and the frame manafacturer, this is still a continuning issue, my 2012 had the Frame Flex issue. Many on here have had to fix there's out of pocket, good luck.

[Pugtracker]

Originally Posted by Ron

Sounds like you may have Frame Flex, as mentioned above, might not help but talk with Keystone and the frame manafacturer, this is still a continuning issue, my 2012 had the Frame Flex issue. Many on here have had to fix there's out of pocket, good luck.

Thanks Ron, will open up from bottom as soon as its stops raining. Looking for info on repair. Will have repair done while living in. Any advice or direction is appreciated.

[Pugtracker]

Did anyonehave luck with the manufacturer

[Ron]

Some Have and Some have not. There is a expansion joint below the left bottom corner of the bedroom slide, when there is Frame Flex, generally in the expansion joint area, each side of the siding will move against one another about 1/4" and also the molding on the bottom edge of the goose neck area will have movement in it when pin weight is put on the trailer.

[Pugtracker]

another repair link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9L_o16KeEE