Winter use...

[akacliph]

So, we live in northern Utah and are planning at least 2 trips this winter. Am I going to have to winterize between trips? I'm pretty sure I know the answer here just checking on other methods if any, beyond indoor storage.

Thanks in advance.

[JRTJH]

Any sustained below freezing storage will require winterization. By sustained, I mean if it's below freezing for an hour or more every night and not above 40 during the day.

If it were mine, I'd winterize it or simply leave it winterized and use community toilets/showers and bottled water. That way you won't have to do the winterization when the first trip is over.

[Bob Landry]

I have to ask because living in Central Texas, I have never winterizes.

If, and I emphasize if, you drain the water heater, empty all of the holding tanks, and drain using the low point drains, what does additional winterizing do for you? I've never even used the fresh water pump in my trailer as we always go to FHU campgrounds.

[JRTJH]

The black tank flush antisiphon valve will freeze and probably crack, the P traps in all the sinks, the valve in the toilet are all subject to damage from freezing. The actual water lines are probably going to be OK. PEX tubing is pretty durable, but the fittings may not hold up well.

If there's any water in the water pump (not sure where your one way valve is located) the pump head may be damaged.

Shower heads, the outside shower faucet, and possibly the inside faucets may freeze and crack the valves.

Is that enough???? Geeze, Now I think I ought to go doublecheck our trailer and make sure I didn't miss anything.... for the 5th time LOL


For the record, low point drains are only as good as the "straightness" of the water supply lines. If there's a low bend in a line, the water will not drain past that point, so just draining the low point drains may not be enough. You should consider using compressed air to blow any trapped water out of the lines.....

[akacliph]

I've heard from someone that has had success over the last few years that blowing the lines with air alone- city water and black tank spray very thoroughly and opening one valve at a time while doing so, will be enough to endure sustained freezing temps without damage. And draining the heater of course. Raising the hitch all the way and back down to get all the low point drains.

Thoughts?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by akacliph

I've heard from someone that has had success over the last few years that blowing the lines with air alone- city water and black tank spray very thoroughly and opening one valve at a time while doing so, will be enough to endure sustained freezing temps without damage. And draining the heater of course. Raising the hitch all the way and back down to get all the low point drains.

Thoughts?

In a "moderately cold area (south Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, etc that will probably be all that's needed. Anywhere there is sustained below freezing temperature and/or any sub-zero temps, I wouldn't trust that air pressure will clear all the water from all the lines. There's just too many "nooks and crannies" in a fresh water system to trust it. The cost of antifreeze is about $10 for the average RV. The cost of one outdoor shower faucet is $59. The antifreeze just seems to me to be a super good investment in protecting my RV. Plus, no matter what you do with the water, you need to protect your toilet and all the P traps, so you'll still need at least one gallon of antifreeze. That makes the "fresh water part" of the antifreeze requirement about 2 gallons. So it's really about $6 you're saving. I'll keep using the pink stuff as additional protection in our location. We get weeks on end with below zero temps. I want my RV to be operational after flushing it in the spring. It's no fun to spend the first week drying it out from cracked plumbing and the next 3 weeks replacing busted plumbing.....

I've said many times before..... I HATE PLUMBING

[allmi01]

I'm not that much further south than John is and I never use the pick stuff.

I always use the compressed air method to blow the water line clean. It takes time to get the lines pretty dry. blow until you don;t get teh spray anymore. I do this for all faucets, the shower inside and outside and also finish by doing this onthe low point drains.

I do use about a gallon in the p-traps of the sinks and shower. the rest down the toilet to keep whatever water might be left there dulited enough to not cause damage.

I hate plumbing also but I hate flusing the pink stuff in spring even more.

The trick I learned from an in-ground pool specialist, make sure you get al the water out. if it is still spraying, keep blowing. It has worked for me for 20+ years.

Mike

[JRTJH]

Mike, I never had (have) any trouble using air to blow out the faucets and the showers, but in the past with the "old fashioned" Thetford toilets (with the flush valve mounted near the floor in the back) I could never get all the water out of the toilet bowl ring. No matter how long I applied air to the system and held the foot pedal, there always seemed to be just enough water left around the bowl to seep back down, fill that darned valve and freeze/crack it every winter. The valve (back then) was only $6 or $7 but taking the toilet off the wax ring and remounting it after replacing the valve was an all morning event.

The newer Dometic toilets have a different flushing mechanism, but it still looks like a tough job to get all the water out of the flush lines in the bowl. Any "tricks" that you use to dry the toilet so it won't crack or split the valve?

[Bob Landry]

Has anyone ever thought of drilling and tapping the P-Traps and installing pipe plugs, say 3/8". The plastic would be very easy to tap and then to winterize you would simply unscrew the plug and drain the trap. The only one that may be difficult to get to would be the shower drain, but there is an access cover at the front of the pan, at least there is on mine, and it could be removed, modded and reinstalled.
I'm thinking that with that, draining the water heater, the low point drains, and blowing with compressed air, you may eliminate the need to buy antifreeze.

[JRTJH]

Bob, How prone to leaks would the plastic be after installing/removing the plugs after a period of years?

Our shower doesn't have a P trap, rather it's a valve type assembly that drains directly into the gray tank. I think it's sort of like the valve that's used on some of the outdoor kitchen drains. I was suprised to find it there when I was winterizing. The HWH bypass valve is directly under the shower drain is the only reason I even noticed it.

[Bob Landry]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Bob, How prone to leaks would the plastic be after installing/removing the plugs after a period of years?

Our shower doesn't have a P trap, rather it's a valve type assembly that drains directly into the gray tank. I think it's sort of like the valve that's used on some of the outdoor kitchen drains. I was suprised to find it there when I was winterizing. The HWH bypass valve is directly under the shower drain is the only reason I even noticed it.

If you put a couple of wraps of teflon thread tape on it, it should last forever. If it does start to enlarge for any reason, like over tightening, you would simply add a couple of wraps of tape. It seems like the tape thing would be very attractive to people who occasionally de-winterize to go on a camping trip then have to do it all over again.

Now that you mention it, I don't think I remember a P-trap under my shower, only a 90 degree that drains directly into the grey tank. I don't even remember seeing any kind of valve either.

[allmi01]

John,

What I did , and never had issues with the toilets water supply after, was to flush the toilet after I have blown out the lines and hold it open long enough to let the water drain backwards away for the toiletand out the low point drains. Like, you, I could never quite get all the water out with foward pressure and had to replace a few flush values.

I learned about this when I put the anti-freeze down the toilet at the end of the winterization process and I forgot to blow out the toilet. I discovered when doing the anti-freeze, water drained backwards and well the rest is history as it were.

Mike

[JRTJH]

Mike, That's pretty much my experience, but I never went to the next step of trying to drain backwards through the valve. I figured it's just easier to use antifreeze and be done with it.

I don't know why you had such problems flushing in the spring, all I do is hook up a hose to the fresh water system, turn on the faucets and let them run for 10 minutes or so, then close the low point drains and shut off the faucets one at a time, reset the HWH bypass to the normal setting, let the HWH fill and then fill the fresh water tank, add chlorine, run it through each of the faucets until I smell it, let it sit overnight, drain the water tank, reconnect the hose and flush all the lines a second time. Then, if there's no leaks, good to go as soon as I get the refrigerator cleaned out and turned on

Oh, did I say, "I HATE PLUMBING" LOL