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07-26-2020, 12:52 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 596
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just run your a/c on generator and tell us. what's wrong with that?
and yes, your model numbers are on top. just run the a/c and see what's going on.
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07-26-2020, 01:09 PM
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#22
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscommon48
just run your a/c on generator and tell us. what's wrong with that?
and yes, your model numbers are on top. just run the a/c and see what's going on.
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And possibly burn up the compressor if it pulls too many amps pulls down the voltage. That's what's wrong for him, not you.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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07-26-2020, 02:29 PM
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#23
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Roseville
Posts: 21
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I installed a soft start in my 2018 Cougar 27WRES this spring. I was able to easily use my Honda 2200 at sea level. Northern California. Added the fridge just to try it and still work with nothing to spare. I had am amp meter on it and was maxed 15 amps or about 1,700 watts. Tried just the AC unit at 6,500 feet elev and would start it but did not run it efficiently. The generator kicked off several times before I realized I was going to ruin the generator. Connected my companion and all worked perfect and 6,500' . To help manage the maintenance on two generators I purchased a couple of hour meters. Makes life much easier. I always run them with stabilizer just in case the next trip is cancelled and they are in storage for a few months. I discovered what 6 month old gas does to these things. Had to drain it and refill with fresh gas for the generator to start.
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07-26-2020, 02:38 PM
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#24
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,760
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15 amps @ 120 volts would be 1,800 watts.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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07-26-2020, 02:41 PM
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#25
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Roseville
Posts: 21
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Glad someone is checking my math. I took apart a short extension cord to get a amp reading on one of the wires to the trailer and did the math in my head.
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07-26-2020, 02:46 PM
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#26
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayakjim
Glad someone is checking my math. I took apart a short extension cord to get a amp reading on one of the wires to the trailer and did the math in my head.
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No problem. At 2,200 watts and a 15 Amp constant load you only have 3 1/3 amps in reserve. That's cutting things to close for comfort IMO.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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07-26-2020, 02:54 PM
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#27
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Roseville
Posts: 21
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Yep. I measured the fridge at 5.5 amps (I was charging the batteries too), so about 9amps running just the ac. So either keep the propane on for the fridge or bring 2 generators when I know I will need the AC. Last thing I want is the DW to get too hot. I will hear about it and everyone I know will hear about it for months. I like the Honda 2200. Easy to lift in the truck and the 2200 are much easier to change the oil than my old 2000's. Less mess and the hour meters or one year make the oil change timing simple. Was the soft start worth it? Yes. Because I tinker and always wondered if it would make a big difference.
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07-26-2020, 03:27 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayakjim
So either keep the propane on for the fridge or bring 2 generators when I know I will need the AC.
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It's been noted by myself and many here that your fridge could work better on propane anyway. Faster cool down at initial startup and faster recovery when the door is left open for more than needed. Get an Acurite wireless digital Refrigerator/Freezer temperature monitor. Money well spent.
__________________
2023 Cougar HT 23MLE
2020 F250 XLT CC 6.2 4WD
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07-26-2020, 06:56 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 542
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[QUOTE=ChuckS;401034]Sorry to say but the RV Tech doesn’t have a clue of what he is talking about regarding your RV AC units...
You’re Spot on!
You either have the Coleman Mach 3 or Mach 15 series unit or Dometic Brisk Air 2 series AC units installed...
Get a soft start for each AC you have.
My 2020 Keystone Cougar 29RKS (Half Ton towable haha on paper!)
Dometic units a 15k & 13.5k... did not come with soft start that does what you need.
I put a RV Soft Start on each AC.
Now the gen runs AC no problem.
In fact the soft start works so well I can run the refrigerator on electric, TV and both AC units on 30Amp Plug in.
Before soft start both would kick breaker.
I advise everyone to put on a soft start whether you use generator or not. If you have a 50amp rig and get a 30amp site you are good to go.
The $200 soft start price is worth it.
With soft start you can start and run the AC on a 2200w generator.
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07-26-2020, 07:19 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,090
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[QUOTE=rlh1957;402506]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS
Sorry to say but the RV Tech doesn’t have a clue of what he is talking about regarding your RV AC units...
You’re Spot on!
You either have the Coleman Mach 3 or Mach 15 series unit or Dometic Brisk Air 2 series AC units installed...
Get a soft start for each AC you have.
My 2020 Keystone Cougar 29RKS (Half Ton towable haha on paper!)
Dometic units a 15k & 13.5k... did not come with soft start that does what you need.
I put a RV Soft Start on each AC.
Now the gen runs AC no problem.
In fact the soft start works so well I can run the refrigerator on electric, TV and both AC units on 30Amp Plug in.
Before soft start both would kick breaker.
I advise everyone to put on a soft start whether you use generator or not. If you have a 50amp rig and get a 30amp site you are good to go.
The $200 soft start price is worth it.
With soft start you can start and run the AC on a 2200w generator.
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$200? Where? Last I saw was Micro-air $274 with a $25 discount from a promo code.
__________________
2023 Cougar HT 23MLE
2020 F250 XLT CC 6.2 4WD
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07-27-2020, 06:22 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 542
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Sorry wrong info
Sorry for confusion... the SoftstartRV is $299 and not $200. I still put on both AC’s.
My pleasure and excitement with my choice was a good deal at any price! https://networkrvstore.com/products/softstartrv
Note: softstart and hard start, hard kick start are not the same thing.
The cheaper hard & hard kick start are only bigger capacitors.
Softstartrv have electronic control board that works with start and run of Your ac. It ramps up the power making it easier on the unit as well as the grnerator.
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08-19-2020, 10:17 AM
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#32
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3
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Just a experiential comment. After install in a MicroAir Easy Start, My 2300 watt generator would easily start the 15K AC, but could not maintain the load as the AC pressures rose. Something to consider is the amp load 8-10 minutes or so after the compressor is running. Just my 2 cents, though I cannot promise it is worth that much.
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08-19-2020, 10:57 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftMKIII
Just a experiential comment. After install in a MicroAir Easy Start, My 2300 watt generator would easily start the 15K AC, but could not maintain the load as the AC pressures rose. Something to consider is the amp load 8-10 minutes or so after the compressor is running. Just my 2 cents, though I cannot promise it is worth that much.
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Hmmm.... my 13.5k a/c runs perfectly with the micro air installed, with a 3000 Honda however. Your generator may not be up to the task of a 15k unit. What’s the running watts on your generator? What brand? A 15k only uses a few more amps than a 13.5k unit.
__________________
2023 Cougar HT 23MLE
2020 F250 XLT CC 6.2 4WD
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08-19-2020, 11:05 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 542
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[QUOTE=Bill-2020;402510]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlh1957
$200? Where? Last I saw was Micro-air $274 with a $25 discount from a promo code.
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Sorry for the confusion.
Bad math!
They are still $299 and discounts of $25 are still to be found. I paid $275 for each of mine.
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08-19-2020, 11:10 AM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 542
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Some 2300watt gen may not handle a 15K ac even with softstart.
Honda2200 and other 2200 will handle 13.5K ac with soft start without issues.
__________________
2020 Cougar Half Ton 29RKS Fifth Wheel
2019 F350 4WD Lariat SRW 6.7 Diesel SD
Anderson Ultimate 5th Hitch - JT Strongarm TST509 TPMS- 2200W(8)Solar Panels - 800AH BattleBorn Batteries. 3000W Victron MultiPlus II Inv. SoftStartRV on 2 AC’s - Predator 3500 generator Airlift 5000 bags
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08-19-2020, 04:04 PM
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#36
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-2020
Hmmm.... my 13.5k a/c runs perfectly with the micro air installed, with a 3000 Honda however. Your generator may not be up to the task of a 15k unit. What’s the running watts on your generator? What brand? A 15k only uses a few more amps than a 13.5k unit.
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I commented to make sure the OP is aware that starting amps is not the only consideration. Just a part of the puzzle, if you will.
The overall needs will be based on AC, ancillary power users, and generator output. More specifically, what the generator will support. Many 3000+ watt generators have enough overhead to support the running pressures, though.
My 2300 is aN AI Power (2300/1800), but admittedly with a 79cc motor. The same motor in their 2000 watt generators.
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08-19-2020, 04:41 PM
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#37
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlh1957
Some 2300watt gen may not handle a 15K ac even with softstart.
Honda2200 and other 2200 will handle 13.5K ac with soft start without issues.
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If you're at sea level to about 2000 or 3000 feet, you might get by with a 2300 watt generator with a 13.5K A/C. At 8000', it probably won't keep up with the amperage draw. Depending on what else in the trailer is using amperage, there may not even be enough wattage to run the A/C on a hot day, even down as low as 4000'.....
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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01-18-2021, 02:26 PM
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#38
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Calgary
Posts: 44
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The challenge with contacting the manufacturers is that they will just simply say don't use one. Seldom if ever will they tell you why.
The question does warrant investigation as to why the manufactures don't sell their units with such capability built in. They all know why the AC units are being purchased and where they are going to be used. Start "capacitors" are used in all residential and commercial AC units. It is required technology to get those compressors turning. RV AC manufactures use the same technology and it works perfectly if you are plugged into appropriately sized grid power as you are in a campground. The challenge arises when you are running the AC not off the grid power but off of a GenSet. The Genset simply can not provide those high in rush current demands that grid power can for the short period of time they are needed. If your Gen Set does do it, it is a huge load on it and absolutely serves to shorten it's life expectancy.
There are a great number of folks in larger RVs, most of whom are full time, that are looking for far more technologically advanced methods of power generation and storage.
The issue of turning off your AC-DC converter can easily be solved by putting a solar charging system into the mix. You are using your Gen Set during the hottest part of the day when in theory, you should have the greatest amount of sunlight as well. Take advantage of the "no additional cost" of energy that solar gives you.
Having said that, I would find it hard to believe that your battery bank would be so depleted after only two or three hours of Genset/AC use that everything would just stop. The big "UNLESS" is do you have an RV fridge or a Residential fridge?
All of these comments are moot with not knowing what your RV's battery storage capacity is. If you have a Residential style fridge in your unit, then you also have a substantial DC-AC pure sine wave invertor that the fridge runs off of. Your fridge when running, probably draws about 500-900ma of 120V AC. On the high side that means that your fridge draws about 105 -110 watts of power when running. Also when is going to be running the most? of course during the heat of the day. Factor that down to what your DC-AC inverter is drawing from your batteries (12 DC power system) and it could be as high as 10amps of 12volt DC power. If you only have one battery and it is smaller in amp/hr size, then it could conceivably be drawn down to a level where it will not provide the proper amount of power to the controls on things like your AC thermostat.
Not bragging but putting this into perspective, in our 2019 Montana 3790RD with an RV fridge, we have a Yamaha 4500 watt Gen Set, 1050 watts of solar panel charge capacity on the roof, 2 X L16 6 volt 425amp/hr batteries for electrical storage and a 4000 watt pure sine wave inverter.
We dry camp in the boonies in N.W. Montana and S.E. British Columbia and we have no problems. But we have the equipment to do it and have designed our comprehensive approach to effectively address the challenge. No compromises. Just all in GETTER DONE.
I just recently installed two EasyStart RV AC Soft Start Units one in each of our Dometic 15K Blizzard NXT roof top AC units. My intention is to reduce the LRA (Locked Rotor Amps) that these and all other AC units draw when the compressor cycles on.
EasyStart demonstrates that they do just that. Our Yammy would run them both but it was at the "don't let the smoke out" limit.
Generator killers are those, all be they momentary, high start current amperage draws (LRA) that happen when electrical motors have to start from a dead stop with the mechanical load attached, ie your RV AC Compressor.
Installing the EasyStart or similar unit will reduce the start up load that your AC puts on your Gen Set. Those reductions can't help but reduce the harmful effects of momentary high current requirements. In theory, that should equate to fewer shopping trips to the Gen Set store going forward.
Hope this helps.
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01-18-2021, 05:01 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 3,015
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Very good video on soft start. ... one of several brands of soft start modules...good scope shots of initial ramp up amperage with and without software module
https://youtu.be/tzIes4KAODc
__________________
2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
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01-20-2021, 02:50 PM
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#40
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Calgary
Posts: 44
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I have looked at all the videos on YouTube. The posting of the before and after results clearly shows a significant decrease in the start amperage spiike. My question that I want to put out to any folks with significant electrical engineering knowledge is how does a soft start unit replace the function of a start capacitor. I know what the Cap does and how it does from an electrical theory standpoint. I have advanced electrical knowledge and I admittedly can not figure out how the unit can replace a start Cap and be seen to not be starting the compressor in a quasi brown out scenario. Are any of you folks able to explain to me how these units work?
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