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Old 01-23-2021, 06:15 PM   #1
allanbradl
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HyperDeck Flooring

Hello everybody.
After buying a barely used trailer with soft floor that I didn't notice during inspection I decided to see if anybody was making water proof flooring.
That's how I came across Keystone trailers and purchased a brand new 2020 219BH. I honestly was elated at first but now the language on Keystone website makes me feel kind of suspicious. For example : Hyperdeck is made from inorganic components , however, Keystone says it is water resistant, not waterproof, although more resistant than regular wood based floors.
I am wondering why they use such careful language.
I also thought the sandwich layers should be fiberglass . It is "fiberglass reinforced polypropylene". Sounds like a cheap gimmick. I wonder if some of you are industry insiders or familiar with Hyperdeck or similar technology. What is actual risk of water damage for Hyperdeck? Share your thoughts please.
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Old 01-23-2021, 07:20 PM   #2
JRTJH
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There are NO industry insiders on this forum. To my knowledge, after being a member for 10 years, I've never seen any employee of Keystone RV Company ever post a response. I've also never seen any membership that can be tied to any employee of Keystone RV Company (I have access to every member's data and there are none tied to the factory). There is a "disclaimer" at the bottom of every forum webpage that states: "This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company."

So, when it goes for "getting an inside scoop" you won't find it here...

What you will find is probably the largest source of Keystone RV owners, most willing to give you the "unfiltered truth" about their trailer and their opinion of what you might face. Some are less than happy, most have had no significant issues with their trailer....

As for my "opinion", prior to the last year or so, Keystone (and most other RV manufacturers) used luan, an imported plywood product, in their "lightweight sandwich flooring". It was not "the greatest product for that purpose"... And that's putting it as nicely as I can....

In the past year or so, Keystone has replaced luan with a form of ADZEL (a water resistant, non-wood product). It seems that trailers with the "new and improved floor" have not had as many complaints posted. Of course being a new product, the ownership is limited and the owner experience is only a short span of time.

Long term structural integrity has not been demonstrated in "owner trailers" and I can't tell you what kind of "pre production testing" Keystone did on their new "improved floor system"....

From what I can see, nearly every manufacturer has stopped using luan and has gone to a similar floor system just like the one Keystone uses....

This kind of component is not a "Keystone exclusive"... It's sort of like asking if Keystone trailer frames are better than Forest River frames.... They all are manufactured by Lippert, by the same "robotic welders" (I often question if they are "mechanical robots" or "robotic humans in a daze" that do the welding).... Anyway, the answer to the frame question is: They're all essentially the same" I'd suspose that when it comes to "new and improved lightweight flooring systems" they also are essentially the same, so buy a Keystone or buy a competitors trailer, you're probably getting the same product used in the same technique to provide the same functional flooring.....

Sort of like asking, "Are Michelin tires on my Ford better than Michelin tires on a RAM truck ???
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Old 01-24-2021, 05:12 AM   #3
NH_Bulldog
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I suspect that the terminology used is more for “CYA” than anything else. Under normal use, it is probably a game-changer and will in fact perform as advertised. But what about someone parking their trailer on a fixed dirt site with permanent skirting and poor underside ventilation?

Look at the “waterproof” guarantee for most brands of household laminate or engineered flooring. The fine print reads that it is only for a small spot of water that is cleaned up immediately (termed normal cleaning or everyday household spills). At least Keystone is being upfront about it.....
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Old 01-24-2021, 08:03 AM   #4
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Welcome aboard! As John said, you will find a lot of knowledgeable insight here. It seems that the sandwich floor methodology has been around for a while and has proven to be fairly successful in normal usage. Our Montana HC has that kind of floor and feels just fine.

Personally, I wouldn't lose any sleep over the legalese of the various products. They are absolutely using language that protects them since not all people use items the way they were designed to be used. I wouldn't expect anything else. Words are very important when things fail. The real issue is how or why did they fail...manufacturer failure or user abuse? There's no doubt that many failures you will find in this and other forums is due to manufacturer error. However, products are also spec'd and manufactured within a range of "normal" use. They are theoretically designed to function within a certain parameter of stress. The walls, roof, and floor are all designed to be a light as possible while withstanding the rigors of travel and the normal use of the people who own them. The floors are meant to be walked on, not jumped on. They are meant to stay dry, not wet. It seems that the purpose of the new materials is to help mitigate the potential of warranty and reputation damage due to occasional water exposure...accidents happen. But if the floor is exposed to continuous water, such as an undiscovered water leak or a flood, then all bets are off and the language draws that line in the sand.

All that to say that you should just enjoy your new trailer and use it as designed and don't worry about what might happen. Have warranty items fixed under warranty. The rest will be up to you to manage and maintain.
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Old 01-24-2021, 08:44 AM   #5
flybouy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allanbradl View Post
Hello everybody.
After buying a barely used trailer with soft floor that I didn't notice during inspection I decided to see if anybody was making water proof flooring.
That's how I came across Keystone trailers and purchased a brand new 2020 219BH. I honestly was elated at first but now the language on Keystone website makes me feel kind of suspicious. For example : Hyperdeck is made from inorganic components , however, Keystone says it is water resistant, not waterproof, although more resistant than regular wood based floors.
I am wondering why they use such careful language.
I also thought the sandwich layers should be fiberglass . It is "fiberglass reinforced polypropylene". Sounds like a cheap gimmick. I wonder if some of you are industry insiders or familiar with Hyperdeck or similar technology. What is actual risk of water damage for Hyperdeck? Share your thoughts please.
I don't see the water resistant as being careful only accurate. There are vast differences between waterproof and water resistant. Typically, when used in the vernacular, both terms are "defined" by depth and time. For instance you may see a watch that's "water resistant" and then behind that the words "up to" say 1 meter for 3 min. I also don't agree that the material/construction description is a "cheap gimmick". JMHO
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:01 AM   #6
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Let's take the last two or three years along the Gulf Coast as an example.

There has been SIGNIFICANT flooding from hurricanes and there have been "WAY TOO MANY" RV's that sat in those flood waters for days, weeks, months before being "rescued".... If the floor was advertised as "impenetrable" (water proof) with no descriptors of limits of water exposure, then every RV manufacturer would be obligated to replace the floor in every trailer that was flooded, since it didn't stand up to being "waterproof during the warranty period".

NO manufacturer produces a 100% waterproof floor system in a XLite, UltraLite or Half Ton trailer "sandwich floor".

What you're reading is not "cheap gimmick" rather it's "legal definition of performance expectations".... It's unrealistic to even expect any manufacturer to honor a warranty on a flooded trailer, but it is reasonable to expect a manufacturer to honor a warranty on a soft floor from a minor water exposure to the floor if there is a manufacturing defect.

No "purchaser or customer" deserves or should expect to avoid an insurance claim and have their flood damage paid for under a manufacturer's warranty...
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