F250 6.7 Payload

[onsite]

Question: will adding a leaf spring in the rear void Ford Warranty?

[chuckster57]

I would say the definitive answer would be found in the owners manual.
If you don't have one, you can download it here:
http://www.fleet.ford.com/partsandse...owner-manuals/

[onsite]

would 700LB over gvwr be an issue?
F250 crew 6.7 6'5 bed
Trailer weight is fine to pull but I'm concern about the hitch weight .

[dcg9381]

Originally Posted by onsite

Question: will adding a leaf spring in the rear void Ford Warranty?

It might void warranty on a related system - like the existing leaf springs or shackles. It might be an indicator that the truck was overloaded.

Manufacturers can't void warranty on un-related systems. That's not to say that you won't get an initial denial, but there is consumer legislation that prevents this sort of thing.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by onsite

would 700LB over gvwr be an issue?
F250 crew 6.7 6'5 bed
Trailer weight is fine to pull but I'm concern about the hitch weight .

Here is a "cut and paste" from another thread that asks the same general question: "Can I ignore my payload sticker and just tow my camper even though I'm overloaded?"

By "playing the shell game" you can "hide weight from the payload" by claiming that it's "still less than the axle rating" or "unload passengers" if you ever get stopped by the "weight police".... You can also claim, "I'm not commercially towing, so those rules don't apply to me." It all, in my opinion, boils down to whether or not your insurance company and your banker (personal assets) are secure enough to weather the civil lawsuits that are very likely headed your way if you're involved in an accident. It's not a matter of who is at fault, rather, who wasn't following all the manufacturer's limitations that will determine who wins in court.....

There are those who will argue that the F250 axles, wheels, tires and frame are "exactly" the same as the F350, "so it doesn't matter, you'll be OK".... The only significant difference is "that yellow sticker" and what lawyers and judges will determine to be your future, should anything happen. For me, I've worked far too long and would put too much of my personal future security "at risk" by "gambling on nothing happening".... Your personal situation may be different. Only you know what assets you're willing to risk when it comes to "ignoring that yellow sticker".......

I would close my comment with this: Nobody in their right mind would tell you to ignore the law, ignore the engineering limitations of your vehicle, ignore the personal responsibility you have to protect your family and others who share the road. There are some who may "suggest" you'll be OK, but if you ask any one of them to "put their assurances in writing", they will most likely change their "suggestion" to an "opinion"...........

[therink]

I was in this same boat and for peace of mind, I sold the 3/4 ton and moved to a 1 ton SRW.

[Ken / Claudia]

John is right about that yellow sticker. On most comm and non comm trucks under the 26,001 lb rating. Guess what police including me is trained to look for and read it. Here is alittle different than in states that have inspections at licensing. Even if the white VIN tag has different numbers, you read the yellow. Why, because of modifications. Cab chassis sold vehicles is the most popular. Do to the buyer adds a cargo box, utility bed, flat bed, dump box etc. and the co. that does the mods puts on another yellow tag. So, here if you change how much the pickup/truck can carry, the yellow sticker gives you more or less payload and maybe CGVWR. But, also common sense must apply. When you have a truck badged as f250 and now it is a dually without the yellow sticker, it is clear the vehicle can carry more wt. just how much depends on other factors.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

John is right about that yellow sticker. On most comm and non comm trucks under the 26,001 lb rating. Guess what police including me is trained to look for and read it. Here is alittle different than in states that have inspections at licensing. Even if the white VIN tag has different numbers, you read the yellow. Why, because of modifications. Cab chassis sold vehicles is the most popular. Do to the buyer adds a cargo box, utility bed, flat bed, dump box etc. and the co. that does the mods puts on another yellow tag. So, here if you change how much the pickup/truck can carry, the yellow sticker gives you more or less payload and maybe CGVWR. But, also common sense must apply. When you have a truck badged as f250 and now it is a dually without the yellow sticker, it is clear the vehicle can carry more wt. just how much depends on other factors.

1st I heard anyone or any company can add a new yellow sticker. Ought to be a big market for that, but illegal I believe in most cases.

[chuckster57]

When a vehicle is sold as "incomplete" like a cab/chassis or in the case of a class A or C motor home. The "Up fitter" company will add the yellow sticker with the new unladen weight and the new rated GVWR.

Next chance I get, I will take a picture of the tags and post them.

I see John has posted while I was writing my response. I may be wrong but I think the FACTORY label trumps the yellow one.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

1st I heard anyone or any company can add a new yellow sticker. Ought to be a big market for that, but illegal I believe in most cases.

Those "upfitter companies" that Chuckster57 talks about are usually a member of the NTEA. That is the national organization that represents motorhome, wrecker, ambulance, etc upfitters. When they get a "bare chassis" to upfit, it has a "GVW" and "payload", and as they do their "upfitting" any changes/modifications they do to the chassis as they add their final assemblies can change not only the payload, but also the GVW. Any of those changes require "automotive engineering" certification that the vehicle modifications meet the "national standards (identified in the quotes below). Without those certifications, any company would be "out there" legally if they changed any "yellow stickers".

Anyone who has read a "racing magazine" a 'truck magazine" or even Popular Mechanics has seen the advertisements in the back for "convert your SRW to a Dually with our kit". Most of those advertisements (and virtually every one of the detailed installation manuals) has the statement, "Installing this kit will not increase your vehicle payload or GVW."

There is an organization called NTEA, The Association for the Work Truck Industry (I don't know why the "initials" aren't the same as the name). Their website is here: http://www.ntea.com/content.aspx?id=28360

This is a part of their advice to their "Industry Members" about modifying work trucks and changing the GVW: "1) In another common scenario, the vehicle was not properly ordered and the customer wants a different GVWR, asking you as the final-stage manufacturer to help fix it. Re-rating a vehicle, though, whether up or down, can affect emissions, crash safety, braking and other Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) requirements. Many factors should be considered before agreeing to your customer’s request." 2) "If you have not been provided with the intermediate manufacturer’s proper documentation, such as an intermediate vehicle label or an amended incomplete vehicle document, be careful of exposing your company to increased responsibility and liability by changing the GVWR."

As for that "intermediate manufacturer's proper documentation, every "air bag kit" I've ever seen states specifically that it does not change the GVW or the payload. So, yes there are "methods" to increase the GVW of a vehicle, but in almost every case, the cost to certify the new GVW (and get a new yellow sticker) will probably be far more expensive than simply buying a bigger truck.....

For anyone who is "hell bent" to do it anyway, there is contact information on the website for NTEA. Even if you're not a member, they may give you information on who to contact to start the process.

[old timer]

Both the F250 and F350 have the same GVRW of 10,000 pounds. Only difference is when you go DRW than it changes. Gear ratto also changes how much you can pull. The lower the gear the mare you can tow. The brakes limit where that tops out for the manufacture. You may be able to tow more than the sticker says but it's how the truck can stop safely is the key.

[chuckster57]

IIRC the new F350 is 11,500 GVWR. I know my old 250 was 8600 and my 350 is 10,000. The 250 and 350 aren't rated the same.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by old timer

Both the F250 and F350 have the same GVRW of 10,000 pounds. Only difference is when you go DRW than it changes. Gear ratto also changes how much you can pull. The lower the gear the mare you can tow. The brakes limit where that tops out for the manufacture. You may be able to tow more than the sticker says but it's how the truck can stop safely is the key.

Originally Posted by chuckster57

IIRC the new F350 is 11,500 GVWR. I know my old 250 was 8600 and my 350 is 10,000.

Ford has been selling F350 SRW with 10K GVWR for several years specifically for those markets where 10K is the breaking point for commercial registration... The F350 is normally 11.5K GVWR...

Same truck, one is just de-rated for non-commercial registration.. BTW they do the same for F350 DRW...

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Javi

Ford has been selling F350 SRW with 10K GVWR for several years specifically for those markets where 10K is the breaking point for commercial registration... The F350 is normally 11.5K GVWR...

Same truck, one is just de-rated for non-commercial registration.. BTW they do the same for F350 DRW...

As Javi indicated, the "same truck" can be ordered in several different "weight classfications". An F350 can be ordered with the following GVW's: 10000, 10200, 10500, 10700, 10800, 11000, 11100, 11200, 11400 and 11500. http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...tions/payload/ Essentially, the truck is the same, no matter which GVW is selected, but for registration purposes, a "different yellow sticker" is applied. A company may select a "lower GVW" to take advantage of registration or insurance costs, to save money on "fleet maintenance" or any of a number of different "federal regulations" (think unleaded fuel/leaded fuel from years ago and current fuel mileage requirements for "light vehicles/heavy vehicles as a couple of those regulations). These "legal considerations and federal requirements don't usually apply to the "private user" so we don't consider them when buying a vehicle, but they still "come into play" when we use our vehicle, if our state law is written in such a way as to "include us". Many states do that to keep laws "uniform and non-discriminatory"...

Considering the various GVW's available for the F350, it's no surprise that NTEA made the statement: "In another common scenario, the vehicle was not properly ordered and the customer wants a different GVWR, asking you as the final-stage manufacturer to help fix it. Re-rating a vehicle, though, whether up or down, can affect emissions, crash safety, braking and other Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) requirements. Many factors should be considered before agreeing to your customer’s request."

Almost every F250 on a "Ford lot" will have a GVW of 9900 or 10000 and almost every F350 will have a GVW of 11400 or 11500 (depending on the state where the dealership is located).

After the truck is built and the "factory payload/GVW" is established, it takes a significant amount of "documentation" to change the yellow sticker, even if there is virtually no change of any vehicle part required. Just meeting the safety standards, emission standards for the different classifications requires an inordinate amount of documentation. Then, when traded, all of that has to be transferred/undone/factored into the change of ownership.

This "process" is one of the reasons that motorhome manufacturers went to the more expensive "heavy duty truck chassis" (Freightliner, etc) rather than continue adding "tag axles" to a cheaper "medium duty truck chassis". The documentation to "upgrade the GVW" costs them more than just using a heavier chassis. It's essentially the same with us adding "parts" to upgrade our GVW, the cost to certify the change almost always costs more than just trading for a heavier truck.

Maybe, think of it this way: The only "physical difference" between an F250 and an F350 is the "overload spring" on each side of the rear axle. Adding that overload spring to an F250 will make it "identical to" a comparable F350. But the reclassification, documentation, registration and tons of regulatory requirements to recertify it (for governmental and legal purposes) would cost far more than just buying a new "properly documented" truck. No matter how you "physically upgrade" the truck, the old saying, "The job's not done until the paperwork is finished" rings true......

[old timer]

Wow some good information here. I tried to argue with my salesman at the dealership about the difference between the 2 trucks and he kept saying that they were both the same. I couldnt figure it out but he showed me the Ford website and thats what it said. I thought it was stupid so went with the 250. This truck thing is way to complicated. Even fleet manager didn't know. I did a bunch of research and came to the same conclusion. I am glad my truck servs my current needs.

[onsite]

OK, Here's the deal, Im told that as long as I am under GCWR 23500 combine towing I an fine to pull the 5vr, and should not have any issues, which the 5rver is 10900, but being over 500lb on the paylod when 5vr is connected is my concern. Dealer says to install 500lb springs in rear and all will be covered. They do this all the time.
Seems like the more I read on this , the more Im about to give up and cancel my order. Is this 500lb difference really something to be worried about?
I do not want to have any issues down the road. I see a lot of F250 6.7 short beds on forums pulling 14K 5vr's with over 2300lb hitch weight. Just want peace of mind and legal when driving . I called ford customer service and was told I can pull up to 15100 fifth wheel with F250 6.7 10000lb and all towing specs are in the Ford guide. That was the only informaion I was given.
I am going from a TT to a 5vr , Maybe!!!!!!!!

[cw3jason]

Originally Posted by onsite

OK, Here's the deal, Im told that as long as I am under GCWR 23500 combine towing I an fine to pull the 5vr, and should not have any issues, which the 5rver is 10900, but being over 500lb on the paylod when 5vr is connected is my concern. Dealer says to install 500lb springs in rear and all will be covered. They do this all the time.
Seems like the more I read on this , the more Im about to give up and cancel my order. Is this 500lb difference really something to be worried about?
I do not want to have any issues down the road. I see a lot of F250 6.7 short beds on forums pulling 14K 5vr's with over 2300lb hitch weight. Just want peace of mind and legal when driving . I called ford customer service and was told I can pull up to 15100 fifth wheel with F250 6.7 10000lb and all towing specs are in the Ford guide. That was the only informaion I was given.
I am going from a TT to a 5vr , Maybe!!!!!!!!

you are correct, a lot of 3/4 ton trucks going down the road are overloaded. being over a little on payload will probably not get you hurt, I would be more concerned with being over on rear axle weight or rear tire capacities.

[jsmith948]

And the debate just keeps on goin'. Our F250 has a GVWR of 10000#
When we haul our 32' 5er, which has a listed GVWR of 10070#, we are under all of the weight specs - front axle, rear axle, GVW, CGVWR and trailer GVWR.
That is with a full load of fuel, 50gal of fw and the trailer loaded with clothes and food/supplies for a 3 week trip.
However, we have a relatively light trailer. Our previous truck was a '96 super-cab longbed with a 5.8L gas engine. It weighed 5600#. Our current truck weighs in at around 7800#. If I had it to do over again knowing just how heavy these new pick-ups are, I would probably have bought a SRW 1ton, but, we're good. We just won't be able to ever upgrade to a larger trailer with this truck (not that we really would ever want to).
To those that say a few hundred lbs over won't matter - I wish you luck and hope you never find yourself on the wrong end of a civil suit. FWIW - IMHO

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by onsite

Dealer says to install 500lb springs in rear and all will be covered. They do this all the time:

Is the dealer prepared to give you a written statement that they will "cover" any issues that arise?

Yes it is an endless debate, will you be fine? Most likely. Will you be "fine" if you get in an accident or weighed? Most likely you will get a fine, think the dealer will cover it? The number of overloaded vehicles on the road will boggle the mind, does that make it right? In the end that sticker on your door will be the legal limit, no matter what you do.

[JRTJH]

Speaking, not as a moderator, but as a member of this forum, I'd like to say that I agree completely with jsmith948's comment, especially the last sentence: "To those that say a few hundred lbs over won't matter - I wish you luck and hope you never find yourself on the wrong end of a civil suit. FWIW -"

To share a personal experience that happened about 40 years ago in Las Vegas. I was stopped at a red light and was "rear ended" by a driver who failed to stop. A passenger in his car filed a law suit for damages against my insurance company and me. Even though it was eventually settled in my favor, the almost 3 years of "turmoil" caused by the "blindly fair legal system" is still not a "fun memory". I wouldn't wish that kind of experience for anyone.

I have never doubted the ability of almost any tow vehicle to "physically" have the capacity to pull a trailer from point A to point B. The "physical ability" is not in question... What is, IMHO, the point that bears consideration, is the whole concept of "personal responsibility" to be "legally and morally" within the limits when towing. I don't want to spend my time in some out of state situation where my vehicle or trailer is impounded by an "eager LEO" because I fudged a little bit, nor would I want to face a future of standing in front of the mirror every morning, reflecting on an accident that I was involved in, where some child or adult was injured because of something I did or didn't do. Lastly, I don't want to be served with a "wrongful death" or other civil lawsuit because of "a loophole" that was found during the investigation of an accident in which I was involved, but not at fault. Whether or not the situation was caused by me and whether or not some "high priced lawyer" was able to win or lose the case, I know in my own sense of morality and responsibility that I would be "crushed inside" if I thought that by taking a "shortcut" or by "ignoring that yellow sticker" I was, somehow responsible for causing someone else's suffering or loss, I couldn't look at myself in the mirror every morning.

Other's may feel differently. I know there are people who couldn't care less how their actions affect others. There are people who jokingly laugh about what they've done to "get something for nothing" or to "beat the system" or "whatever else is their "measure of momentary fame". I personally "don't roll that way" and I'd like to believe that none of those types of people are members here..... I'm not attempting to lay blame or induce guilt on anyone. I'm simply stating my feelings about personal responsibility. Your views may differ, possibly substantially, and that's OK, if it's "how you roll".....