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Old 12-02-2014, 07:06 PM   #21
bsmith0404
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I saw another comparison a few years back (2012ish) that showed the same results as the write-up listed for the exhaust brake. More recently I saw a test for 2014s that compared them on level ground towing 10k lbs in a 60 to 30 mph test. It took GM and Dodge an identical 19 seconds to slow the load down, Ford was 28 seconds. One thing I noticed was the Dodge slowed quicker initially, but then evened out with the GM. How valid is an exhaust brake test on a level road vs in the mountains??? That's up to everyone to decide for themselves.

Back to the OPs original question, I've seen where Dodge recommends using the brake to work the turbo veins. Others have mentioned that as well. Personally, when I watch the vein movement on my Edge CTS they are working/changing constantly, not sure how using the brake to "work" them is any different. With the design of these, I think it's obvious that it's not going to hurt anything, but as some have pointed out, it does have some side affects that may make you want to turn it off from time to time.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:19 PM   #22
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I only run the engine brake when I tow in the hilly/moutainous terrain.

Around town and daily driving it gets turned off. I asked one of the Chrysler engineers about it when I was a Dodge/Ram service director and they said that would be the way to run it if they owned it.
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Old 12-04-2014, 04:59 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
Interesting that you say that, mine holds back 15k lbs without any problem on some pretty steep grades out in Colorado and Wyoming. I also saw comparison tests somewhere and the dmax held constant speed better than Ford and Dodge.
I have towed to Florida and return with a 11 3500 DMax 4x4 DRW towing a triaxle 5th at 16K. Did same trip with same trailer with 13 3500 Ram DRW 4x4. I stand by my comments that the Dmax is a big step below the Ram in the ability of the ex brake , not just in long down hill grades but in normal speed reduction at lights etc.

The Dmax is not bad, it is just not as strong as the RAM. It is far and away better than not having one though.
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
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I have towed to Florida and return with a 11 3500 DMax 4x4 DRW towing a triaxle 5th at 16K. Did same trip with same trailer with 13 3500 Ram DRW 4x4. I stand by my comments that the Dmax is a big step below the Ram in the ability of the ex brake , not just in long down hill grades but in normal speed reduction at lights etc.

The Dmax is not bad, it is just not as strong as the RAM. It is far and away better than not having one though.
Not disputing your experience, just find it interesting. I have run through the mountains/hills in CO, SD, WY, and now southern MO with mine towing 15k. When I set the cruise and the exhaust brake, it holds the cruise control speed within 2-3 mph. Doesn't get much better than that. I've had the same experience on both my 2500 and 3500 dmax, only difference is the 2500 was only towing 12k. Older comparison tests showed the GM was better, recent comparison tests show them about equal which goes along with everything I can find that they are similar designs. Of course, these systems advance each year just like everything else. Maybe your experience has to do with a 2011 GM and a 2013 Dodge.
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:56 PM   #25
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Maybe the 15 Dmax has been improved. The 13 Ram was the 1st of the new trucks with the Aisin. A lot of these things can somewhat be addressed in manipulation of ECU programming. I also read that both performed better than the Ford version but have never been in one with brake engaged under heavy load.

I am speaking more to the ability to hold the road speed from increasing on substantial down grade and also to holding load back when coming to a stop. The latter is where the biggest difference was observed.

I actually never use cruise in the mountains and I see this is a large factor in your reference. Guess we are talking about the same thing only different.
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Old 12-05-2014, 04:25 AM   #26
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An interesting point that I want to share. I typically don't use my exhaust brake when not towing, but since this thread started I've been experimenting with it. I noticed that my EGTs drop much quicker when using the exhaust brake. They drop to below 400 almost as soon as I let off the accelerator. They don't take long to drop normally, but it is quicker using the exhaust brake. Assume that is due to already cooled exhaust that is down the pipe getting forced back to the cylinder having a cooling effect on the new shot of hot exhaust.
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Old 12-05-2014, 04:37 AM   #27
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Mine is just the opposite. The EGT probe is between the turbo and the engine in the exhaust manifold, and of course the exhaust brake is downstream from the turbo. That's one of the reasons the engine warms faster with the exhaust brake actuated. Your probe must be in another location, maybe downstream from the exhaust brake.
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Old 12-05-2014, 04:53 AM   #28
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Mine is just the opposite. The EGT probe is between the turbo and the engine in the exhaust manifold, and of course the exhaust brake is downstream from the turbo. That's one of the reasons the engine warms faster with the exhaust brake actuated. Your probe must be in another location, maybe downstream from the exhaust brake.
My probe is right after the turbo. I'm curious what a pre-turbo probe would show. I can't imagine that it would be that much different than the post turbo probe, the turbo can't have that much of an effect on cooling the gases. I actually have 4 different probe locations, I haven't checked the ones further down the line since I'm only concerned with the EGTs near the turbo. Since the turbo is used for the exhaust brake, I guess that would be considered post brake for the probe.
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Old 12-05-2014, 07:43 AM   #29
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I own a 2015 Chevy and I cant speak on the Dodge, but every write up you read on the new HD line praises the exhaust brake/ cruise control set up and the ability the Chevy/GM has of holding a speed downhill under heavy load.

I am sure the Dodge is the same way, and in 2011 it may have been different. Technology and stuff changes pretty quick in todays automotive world.
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:55 AM   #30
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My probe is right after the turbo. I'm curious what a pre-turbo probe would show. I can't imagine that it would be that much different than the post turbo probe, the turbo can't have that much of an effect on cooling the gases. I actually have 4 different probe locations, I haven't checked the ones further down the line since I'm only concerned with the EGTs near the turbo. Since the turbo is used for the exhaust brake, I guess that would be considered post brake for the probe.
If the EGT probe is downstream of the turbo instead of in the exhaust manifold itself, the measured EGT will be lower. My understanding, depending on the application, is that the measured EGT could be 200dF cooler.

On thing to remember is that the Cummins is a six and the Dmax is an eight. One probe in the manifold before the turbo for the Cummins, and (I'm only guessing) for the Dmax. Perhaps the Dmax has just the one probe after the turbo/exhaust brake with accomodation for the lower EGT registered. I know some aircraft turbine engines have different internal probe locations with different EGT/TIT/ITT values based on where the temperature is monitored. The recommended EGT probe location for Cummins with aftermarket engine brakes (like mine) is in the exhaust manifold before the turbocharger turbine inlet. The EGT gauge yellow/red limit markings are based on that recommended probe location.
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:10 AM   #31
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As a followup to my last post, because the exhaust brake will cause exhaust manifold and turbocharger turbine section temperature to INCREASE because of the induced backpressure with the exhaust brake closed. That temperature increase is registered on my Cummins EGT gauge, but it would not be in your Dmax with the probe downstream of the brake itself.

For cooldown after a highway stint, one should ensure the exhaust brake is off to expedite the cooldown before shutting off the engine. There can be a 200dF difference on my system with the EB on or off after coming to a stop exiting a highway.
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Old 12-05-2014, 04:36 PM   #32
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Desert 185:

You are not talking about the same brake. Your truck is an add on butterfly type restriction after the turbo.

The newer trucks 2011+ Dmax and 2013+ Ram have a variable vane turbo that restricts the outlet of exhaust to cause backpressure.

turning off the brake on new trucks does not mmake it cool down slower or faster if it is at an idle
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:06 PM   #33
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Maybe the 15 Dmax has been improved. The 13 Ram was the 1st of the new trucks with the Aisin.
Dodge introduced the Aisin transmission in 2007, not in 2013
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:46 PM   #34
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Dodge introduced the Aisin transmission in 2007, not in 2013
My understanding is it was only available in the chassis cab in 2007 and first became available in the 3500 in 2013 (based on Allpar.com and the history of the Aisin)
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:06 PM   #35
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Desert 185:

You are not talking about the same brake. Your truck is an add on butterfly type restriction after the turbo.

The newer trucks 2011+ Dmax and 2013+ Ram have a variable vane turbo that restricts the outlet of exhaust to cause backpressure.

turning off the brake on new trucks does not mmake it cool down slower or faster if it is at an idle
Doesn't seem like the variable vane type of exhaust brake would be as effective as the butterfly type.
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:21 PM   #36
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Desert 185. You are correct in that the butterfly type is stronger at very low rpm but the variable vane works very well on the road.

The issue with the variable vane is that they can soot up and get sticky/stick if they are not used regularly, which is why it is recommended to use them more rather than less.....

Also the Aisin trans that came out in 07 in the CC was upgraded for the 13 3500 to better handle the potential torque output of the HO engine if memory serves.
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