2023 Ford SuperDuty Trucks Announced

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Allison was supposed to be going into the Ram way back in 2015, but that’s when the Ram front end problems came to a peak and the NHTSA forced the buy back. At that point they put it all on hold. Actually surprised it’s taken this long to get it going again. TBH, I used to say a Cummins paired with an Allison would be the ultimate truck, but I’m so damn happy with my current Duramax that I wouldn’t give it up for a Cummins.

Up until Ford built it's own diesel (the current 6.7) in 2010, Cummins/Allison was the engine/transmission combo used in the medium duty trucks. I worked at a Ford dealer and a few F-650's/750's came in for warranty transmission work or engine work and we had to send them to Allison or Cummins as we weren't certified to do any warranty work on either.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Allison was supposed to be going into the Ram way back in 2015, but that’s when the Ram front end problems came to a peak and the NHTSA forced the buy back. At that point they put it all on hold. Actually surprised it’s taken this long to get it going again. TBH, I used to say a Cummins paired with an Allison would be the ultimate truck, but I’m so damn happy with my current Duramax that I wouldn’t give it up for a Cummins.

There was a bucketload more than just the NHTSA "buyback" that caused that delay. The federal government's push to return manufacturing to the US, keep exports of jobs on the decline, and decrease imports of major goods from places like Mexico all were factors in what it would have cost "per truck" to ship the Allison transmissions to Mexico then reimport them as a finished vehicle. It may have been "business suicide" to try to open a transmission building plant in Mexico to support the RAM program and cause all kinds of blowback for Allison if they "shipped more jobs out of the US"...

There was (and is) a "whole 'nuther world" to consider when it comes to acquiring the parts and changing suppliers of major parts for a vehicle line.

No doubt "profit margins with the buyback looming over Fiat/Chrysler" was a major factor, but facing a "import tax increase" on parts and finished vehicles that the government threatened for political purposes to "grow our economy" also had a tremendous influence on the decision not to change transmissions at that time.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There was a bucketload more than just the NHTSA "buyback" that caused that delay. The federal government's push to return manufacturing to the US, keep exports of jobs on the decline, and decrease imports of major goods from places like Mexico all were factors in what it would have cost "per truck" to ship the Allison transmissions to Mexico then reimport them as a finished vehicle. It may have been "business suicide" to try to open a transmission building plant in Mexico to support the RAM program and cause all kinds of blowback for Allison if they "shipped more jobs out of the US"...

There was (and is) a "whole 'nuther world" to consider when it comes to acquiring the parts and changing suppliers of major parts for a vehicle line.

No doubt "profit margins with the buyback looming over Fiat/Chrysler" was a major factor, but facing a "import tax increase" on parts and finished vehicles that the government threatened for political purposes to "grow our economy" also had a tremendous influence on the decision not to change transmissions at that time.

It was all timing/snowball effect. Too many issues that hit at roughly the same time.

[ShotgunZ71]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

First I've heard of that but that's good if it's true. As long as it's actually a true Allison transmission. GM is calling the 10 speed in their trucks an Allison but in reality it's the joint venture that Ford and GM went together on. When you look at the fine print Allison merely "certifies" the transmission! Don't get me wrong, it's an excellent transmission. But advertising it as an Allison is a bit of a stretch.

The Allison-branded 10-speed transmission in the HD trucks is entirely different from the 10-speed in the half-ton trucks/SUVs and cars. The current 10-speed in the GM HD trucks was designed, engineered and built by GM exclusively, then sent to Allison for testing, verification and certification purposes. It has shown to be a robust and reliable unit and is going to be the only HD automatic transmission option starting with the 2024MY.

[E Rod]

Would be safe to say that GM and FORD share the same transmission?

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by E Rod

Would be safe to say that GM and FORD share the same transmission!

My understanding is that Ford designs and builds it’s own torque shift trannies. I don’t think they’re the same as the GM/Allison combo in the HD trucks. I think the combo that they collaborated on is in the 1/2 ton trucks as someone else mentioned.

[ShotgunZ71]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

My understanding is that Ford designs and builds it’s own torque shift trannies. I don’t think they’re the same as the GM/Allison combo in the HD trucks. I think the combo that they collaborated on is in the 1/2 ton trucks as someone else mentioned.

Correct. The HD/SD transmissions from Ford and GM are entirely different. The 1/2 ton truck and car 10-speed was a collaboration between Ford and GM. The biggest difference between those two is the individual tuning, which has led to some discussion over which ones are tuned better! LOL!

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by ShotgunZ71

Correct. The HD/SD transmissions from Ford and GM are entirely different. The 1/2 ton truck and car 10-speed was a collaboration between Ford and GM. The biggest difference between those two is the individual tuning, which has led to some discussion over which ones are tuned better! LOL!

Oh no, here we go!

[wiredgeorge]

Another article on the 2023 Ford Super Duty line up. Only thing that bothered me was the mention of the F150 with a 12,500 towing capacity. They said the F150 could tow mid-sized travel trailers but didn't define "mid-size" which seems to get longer every year. The F150 dragging a "mid-size" trailer at 12,500 lbs would need at least 2000 lbs payload and an RV blog should be aware that these numbers will overmatch most 1/2 tons.

The blog did give a description of alll the Super Duty towing aids and some are pretty interesting.

https://camperreport.com/2023-ford-super-duty/

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by ShotgunZ71

The Allison-branded 10-speed transmission in the HD trucks is entirely different from the 10-speed in the half-ton trucks/SUVs and cars. The current 10-speed in the GM HD trucks was designed, engineered and built by GM exclusively, then sent to Allison for testing, verification and certification purposes. It has shown to be a robust and reliable unit and is going to be the only HD automatic transmission option starting with the 2024MY.

I wasn't aware that they had gone with their own ten speed for the 3/4 and 1 tons, but still not an Allison, correct? I am impressed with the ten speed in my wife's Escalade, very smooth, almost seamless shifting. You really don't feel the shifts unless you really put your foot in it and then the engine doesn't have to scream at 5000-6000 rpm's in a lower gear to launch it. It allows the 6.2's 460 ft/lbs of torque to get it moving.

[ShotgunZ71]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

I wasn't aware that they had gone with their own ten speed for the 3/4 and 1 tons, but still not an Allison, correct? I am impressed with the ten speed in my wife's Escalade, very smooth, almost seamless shifting. You really don't feel the shifts unless you really put your foot in it and then the engine doesn't have to scream at 5000-6000 rpm's in a lower gear to launch it. It allows the 6.2's 460 ft/lbs of torque to get it moving.

GM basically took on more of a design and manufacturing role in the new transmission, but Allison still guided them and tested it before putting their name on it. GM could just as well not done that, but it's good to have that brand recognition for sales and promos. Yes, it is as smooth as the light duty 10-speed in your Escalade. I had the new Allison in my Denali HD and now have the light duty 10-speed in my Silverado 1500. Quite interested to see how the 6.6 gas engine performs with the Allison for the 2024 HD trucks.