No shore power and dead batteries

Bamalynn · 04-22-2020, 07:43 AM

This has been a problem from the word go, day one, when we brought the coach home brand new. This is a 2018 Montana High Country 362RD. The 110 outlets do not have any power to 3/4 of the coach, and none of the AC power appliances will operate. A few outlets will still supply power, but very little, like to charge a phone and that's it. None of the lights or smoke detector are able to power on. The batteries will only hold a charge from when we manually charge them, or from being hooked up to the pull vehicle. This is the only way we are able to power the jacks up/down when the system is dead. We've replaced the deep cycle batteries, replaced the inverter at a dealer, and still the issue persists. Replaced the 50amp power cord, and run it directly to our 50amp outlet without any adapters. No blown fuses and we've deduced that there has to be a short somewhere that is draining the batteries in a matter of a few days. It's been very frustrating that the dealerships (2) we've taken it to say they can't find a problem when it's on their lot, yet when we bring it home, shore power won't even charge the batteries. We've checked the kill switch in the battery compartment, checked the "store" switch in the power compartment, moved everything to both positions thinking possibly it was installed backwards. We were told that it must be the batteries, since the coach won't supply power if the batteries break the chain of power in the electronic loop. I'm not an electrician, and we have tried looking in every forum for every mention of inverter issues, and have gotten nowhere. The dealerships think we're nuts and just "inexperienced" but this is our fourth trailer over the past 15 years (1st 5th wheel) but we do have a clue of how this is supposed to work. If anyone can give me some ideas of what to try next, we're all ears. Hopefully I've been clear and didn't misspeak in any of the terminology. Husband is familiar with high voltage/amp electronic systems but not low voltage so this has been a real challenge.

**JRTJH** · 04-22-2020, 07:59 AM

I'd first ask, "What power source are you using at home?"

If you're using a "garage 20 amp outlet" with an adapter, you may only have power to 1/2 of your 2/2 power center distribution legs.

If 2 service centers have not found a problem and the trailer works on their "shore power source" then I'd focus primarily on what's different at your house shore power source.....

Once that's checked out and you KNOW it's functioning properly, then maybe someone can start walking you through the troubleshooting. But, if 2 dealerships didn't find a problem with the trailer, I'd start with what is different....

**flybouy** · 04-22-2020, 08:06 AM

First off welcome. The battery (12vdc) has nothing to do with the 120 vac outlets or appliances. The only place there is an interface is the converter that charges the battery. Have you used the camper in a campground? Or does this problem only exist at home. How are you connecting to shore power? Is it via a 50 amp supply?

It sounds like one leg of the 50 amp panel is not receiving any voltage. If 3/4 of the outlets work and the converter isn't charging then I guess they are on the same main power lug in the distribution panel. I don't understand the "A few outlets will still supply power, but very little, like to charge a phone and that's it." The 120 vac outlets should either work, or not.

If your husband can understand ac current then it should be easy to troubleshoot. I'd suggest starting with the outlet that the camper is plugged into If both 120 v legs are energized then remove the panel inside (breaker box panel cover) and check for the presence of both legs (120 vac) to the neutral and to the ground. Line 1 should be black, Line 2 red, neutral is white, and ground is green.

**flybouy** · 04-22-2020, 08:07 AM

Looks like John hit post before I did.

**flybouy** · 04-22-2020, 08:15 AM

This may help him check out the 50 amp receptacle. The 14-50R on the left side is the correct wiring for the shore power receptacle (outlet).

**sourdough** · 04-22-2020, 10:12 AM

Looks like the bases have been covered. OP needs to determine if we are talking 12vdc or 120vac. Outlets, TV, AC etc. are one thing, batteries, converter etc. another.

Bamalynn · 04-22-2020, 10:59 AM

I posted in my original post that 3/4 of the outlets don't work, and we replaced the 50amp cord and are plugging it into a 50amp outlet, without any adapters. This is at our home on our RV pad. This issue doesn't seem to be a lack of power from the ground to the rig as it also has failed at a campsites. We don't notice the issue until the batteries go dead, which usually takes two days. We were told by the dealerships that if we aren't receiving any AC power, then our DC system is not functioning, due to either bad batteries or a bad inverter. Once the batteries die, none of the lights will work, and only 1/4 of the outlets function. Not all dealerships have quality technicians, and some don't admit when they don't know how to fix something. I wouldn't be surprised if they said it was "fine" just to send us home.

Bamalynn · 04-22-2020, 11:07 AM

"If your husband can understand ac current then it should be easy to troubleshoot. I'd suggest starting with the outlet that the camper is plugged into If both 120 v legs are energized then remove the panel inside (breaker box panel cover) and check for the presence of both legs (120 vac) to the neutral and to the ground. Line 1 should be black, Line 2 red, neutral is white, and ground is green."

Husband did this and confirmed both legs have power. The issue of the batteries not being charged is also an issue, and can't seem to find out where to start to diagnose that either.

**sourdough** · 04-22-2020, 11:36 AM

Your original post said 3/4 of the outlets don't work and none of the AC appliances; first big issue and probably primary. Your batteries and converter have nothing to do with that...at all. Your first order of business is to ascertain where that AC voltage is going. Another statement that doesn't make sense is that you don't notice these problems until you've been plugged in a day or 2 and the batteries go dead. No AC appliances until the batteries go dead? It doesn't work that way.

You said your husband has determined that you have 120vac on both hot legs of your 50A feed (I'm assuming on the proper legs). At both ends of the 50A cable? At the back of the power panel? At the back of the converter? You have to have the AC input at all these locations for 1) your AC appliances to work and 2) to feed the converter which then feeds the batteries.

If you have done this repeatedly and let the batteries deplete until they're dead you should probably replace them as well; after you figure out where your power is going.

**flybouy** · 04-22-2020, 12:11 PM

First figure out the 120 vac issue. Once that's solved we can move on to the battery. As Danny asked, where did your husband test the voltage?

CedarCreekWoody · 04-22-2020, 12:14 PM

Do you have an inverter where the battery voltage is inverted to 120 volt A/C and this is then supplied to those outlets? If so perhaps the inverter is failing to switch over and is continuing to supply power to the outlets while you are on shore power. When on shore power the inverter should drop out and let the shore power feed the outlets directly.

Bamalynn · 04-22-2020, 12:53 PM

Okay, so to reply back to all of the questions:
Husband found that when the batteries don't have enough charge, the GFI trips, and all outlets that are tied to the GFI (in the main bathroom) go dead. This also happens to be all of the main appliances, outdoor kitchen, rear bathroom, fireplaces. So, that part has been figured out as to the outlet situation.

The power was tested in-line in several places, and everywhere that was tested had correct power for both proper legs, nothing was "not working".

So, when the batteries are hooked up to a charger and the GFI is reset, all outlets are working and all lights too. Everything working as it should. The minute the batteries come off the charger, and drain after a couple days, the issue presents itself again. These are brand new batteries, new inverter, new shore power cord. No idea why shore power isn't charging the batteries.

So, the two systems are connected and being plugged in will not power everything without the batteries being fully (or mostly) charged. While using the coach and plugged in, the batteries are getting depleted. If that's not supposed to be how the system should be wired, then we're really screwed... sigh.

notanlines · 04-22-2020, 01:10 PM

Of all the responses the one that peaked my interest was Woody's with the inverter idea. I'm assuming yours came with a standard 'residential' refrigerator. If so you have an inverter so your fridge works while you are driving down the road. A very common fridge for your unit is a Whirlpool three door, freezer on the bottom and two doors on top. Look into Woody's ideas carefully.

bobbecky · 04-22-2020, 01:21 PM

One thing to check is that battery disconnect switch. If it’s like most, there will be a red plastic handle the turns to On or Off. Forget the On and Off and make sure the handle of the switch is turned to whatever position is where you cannot pull the red handle out of the switch. If the handle pulls out, the batteries are not connected to the CONVERTER and you need the handle turned so it cannot be removed. Your lights are 12 volts from the batteries but most of your appliances are 120 volts.

**flybouy** · 04-22-2020, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamalynn

Okay, so to reply back to all of the questions:
Husband found that when the batteries don't have enough charge, the GFI trips, and all outlets that are tied to the GFI (in the main bathroom) go dead. This also happens to be all of the main appliances, outdoor kitchen, rear bathroom, fireplaces. So, that part has been figured out as to the outlet situation.

The power was tested in-line in several places, and everywhere that was tested had correct power for both proper legs, nothing was "not working".

So, when the batteries are hooked up to a charger and the GFI is reset, all outlets are working and all lights too. Everything working as it should. The minute the batteries come off the charger, and drain after a couple days, the issue presents itself again. These are brand new batteries, new inverter, new shore power cord. No idea why shore power isn't charging the batteries.

So, the two systems are connected and being plugged in will not power everything without the batteries being fully (or mostly) charged. While using the coach and plugged in, the batteries are getting depleted. If that's not supposed to be how the system should be wired, then we're really screwed... sigh.

So you say the minute then you say a couple of days for the batteries to drain. Which one is it? How do you know the batteries have been charged? When you say "new inverter" are you talking about the unit that charges the battery? If it is, then that is a CONVERTER. An inverter takes the 12 vdc from the battery and makes it 120 vac. Your unit may have an inverter if the fridge is a residential fridge.

Battery drain is dependent on the load placed upon it. How long the battery will go in between charging is dependent on that load AND the battery condition and capacity. Do you know what type batteries are in the camper? Are they 2 12 volt batteries wired in parallel? If so, what type batteries? Are they 2 6v batteries wired in series? If they are, what brand and how many amp hours? Lasting 2 days would be normal (probably pretty good) if you are running a residential fridge from an inverter. There are lots of variables that if unanswered would lead to a lot of guessing if you have an issue or not.

Steveo57 · 04-22-2020, 02:11 PM

It sounds like the converter is not working. It should charge the batteries and provide power to the DC loads like lights even if the batteries are dead. There are two reverse polarity fuses either in the fuse panel or on the converter that you should check.

**sourdough** · 04-22-2020, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

Do you have an inverter where the battery voltage is inverted to 120 volt A/C and this is then supplied to those outlets? If so perhaps the inverter is failing to switch over and is continuing to supply power to the outlets while you are on shore power. When on shore power the inverter should drop out and let the shore power feed the outlets directly.

I'll have to look at mine again but I'm sure my inverter is for the fridge only. It's nowhere big enough to run all the AC components in the RV. I've looked at 4 different locations on google, including Keystone, and the 362rd all look like they have electric/gas fridges.

**flybouy** · 04-22-2020, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamalynn

Okay, so to reply back to all of the questions:
Husband found that when the batteries don't have enough charge, the GFI trips, and all outlets that are tied to the GFI (in the main bathroom) go dead. This also happens to be all of the main appliances, outdoor kitchen, rear bathroom, fireplaces. So, that part has been figured out as to the outlet situation.

The power was tested in-line in several places, and everywhere that was tested had correct power for both proper legs, nothing was "not working".

So, when the batteries are hooked up to a charger and the GFI is reset, all outlets are working and all lights too. Everything working as it should. The minute the batteries come off the charger, and drain after a couple days, the issue presents itself again. These are brand new batteries, new inverter, new shore power cord. No idea why shore power isn't charging the batteries.

So, the two systems are connected and being plugged in will not power everything without the batteries being fully (or mostly) charged. While using the coach and plugged in, the batteries are getting depleted. If that's not supposed to be how the system should be wired, then we're really screwed... sigh.

The bolded section..let's review that the batteries have absolutely nothing to do with the GFIC or the 120 vac outlets.
The red section ... if you are plugged into a properly wired shore power then the converter should provide 12v dc while charging the batteries.

The two systems are:
12v dc - powers all lights (inside and outside), fans, range hood fan & lights, awning, slide outs, water pump, outside antenna booster, the control board for the fridge if it's a LP/electric fridge, the control board and the fan for the LP furnace.
120v ac - powers all "standard outlets", microwave, television, fireplace, fridge (if in electric mode), water heater if electric is chosen, the air conditioners, the battery charger via the converter.

As was mentioned, if the battery wires were connected backwards, even for a split second, the "reverse polarity" fuses will blow oput and prevent the battery from charging. Have your husband check the voltage of the batteries while connected to shore power. If the reading is 12 volts or less then they are not being charged.

wiredgeorge · 04-22-2020, 03:20 PM

Perhaps it would be best to contact a local RV Repair service and have this issue tackled by someone who knows what they are doing. Sounds like the OP or her hubby doesn't have the skills and with a myrid of advice, may only be heading to confusion land.

Ken / Claudia · 04-22-2020, 06:31 PM

This post is only leading to massive frustration from lack of understanding 2 electrical systems and how to check them out. Many on here can give good advice and mine is pay a RV shop to check it out and fix it. Plan on buying 2 new batteries after you fix the 120v problem if they are going dead over and over they are shot.

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