Cougar OTG Solar Package

[rlh1957]

Anyone had the solar system put in that is optional? Can’t find info other than a Keystone pitch talking about the OTG solar camping package.

Or has anyone put another solar package in and used the solar prep and wiring there? The OTG prep on 2020 Cougar half ton 5th wheel wires in 3 outlets that an inverter will feed.

[foldbak]

I was wondering the same thing. Plug and play? Is there some kind of controller built in?

[rlh1957]

Removed that black dome shaped cover that makes you think Keystone has some sort of controller, inverter or at least some wire terminations... Nada, Zip, Nothing. Makes a goo emergency water bowl for the dog.
They have done nothing but sell you an idea.

[sonofcy]

Originally Posted by rlh1957

Anyone had the solar system put in that is optional? Can’t find info other than a Keystone pitch talking about the OTG solar camping package.

Or has anyone put another solar package in and used the solar prep and wiring there? The OTG prep on 2020 Cougar half ton 5th wheel wires in 3 outlets that an inverter will feed.

I will be putting in a full timer solar system and all the prep is good for is pulling the real wires down the gland and access way. The wires they provide are too small for me and for most. It sounds like you need a course on solar, most folks that don't study ahead of time make mistakes. Firt thing is an energy worksheet, what will you need, then how much storage (1 day, 2 day, more) followed by solar calculated by time of year and latitude. Example 1,000 watts of solar panel in December generates 73 KwH in Phoenix but only 16 at the Canadian/US border. Lot's to learn and lot's of wrong/misguided information.

[rlh1957]

Thanks. I'd be interested in your setup when designed.

Are you saying the Keystone Cougar roof cables are easy to pull out? I saw today where they come into the battery hold area up ftont and they are 8gauge. I think that's slim for all but maybe 250 watt panel coming down. That run has to be at least 15 'to 20' so 8 gauge is stretching it.

[sonofcy]

Originally Posted by rlh1957

Thanks. I'd be interested in your setup when designed.

Are you saying the Keystone Cougar roof cables are easy to pull out? I saw today where they come into the battery hold area up ftont and they are 8gauge. I think that's slim for all but maybe 250 watt panel coming down. That run has to be at least 15 'to 20' so 8 gauge is stretching it.

You don't pull them out, you hook up the wires out of the roof combiner box to the existing cables and pull the new wires. Mine don't go anywhere near the batteries, they end in a cavity where a charge controller would go and it's output would go to the batteries.Since I will be installing 6 to 8 170 watt panels and the combiner to MPPT controller is 20 ft the wire needs go be 2/0 for the 113 amps it will carry.
Here is a link for the start of my system, I will add more solar and maybe less battery or not. NOTE, this is for a full timer and has a residential fridge that uses 1.5kWh per day
https://amsolar.com/rv-complete-solar-systems/99-trlsig

[foldbak]

My 2018 cougar only has a plug on the bottom of the pass through door. That's what I'm referring to.

[sonofcy]

Originally Posted by foldbak

My 2018 cougar only has a plug on the bottom of the pass through door. That's what I'm referring to.

Sorry, I don't know what that is or what it does.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by foldbak

My 2018 cougar only has a plug on the bottom of the pass through door. That's what I'm referring to.

Sounds like the plug for portable solar charger.

[Twisties]

Ours came with the so-called prep package and our plan was to use it to add our own system. There is also an optional complete system from Cougar.

The prep package ostensibly includes: The Zamp branded roof gland (wiring mount point), the wire from the roof to the location for the solar charge controller (SCC), the wire from the SCC to the battery bay, the wire from the battery bay to the inverter location, and the prewire for the three plugs (tv, kitchen and bedside) advertised, as well as all fuses, cut off switches, etc.

Ostensibly you add a Zamp panel or two (it is set up for a max of two), wiring from the panel to the roof gland, a Zamp pwm SCC, and Xantrex 1200 W pure sine pass through (auto-switching) inverter. Basically plug and play. Cougar sells a kit with one panel, plus an add on kit with a second panel.

In our case only the roof gland and wiring from the roof to the battery bay and the wiring for the three plugs to on inverter were in fact present. When I called the dealer they agreed to bring it up to spec on warranty, then mentioned that they had one of the kits available. Came on a new unit with the full package and purchaser did not want it. They sold it to me at a steep discount, plus I picked up the 2nd panel from Back Country Solar. So I scrapped my plans to use the pre-wiring to configure my own system, but I believe the wiring is rated for 510W (40 amps) and you should be able to do this. I was going to add 4 100 W panels and a Renogy mppt scc and a renogy inverter. Renogy's (and most) switching inverters are also charging inverters, but Renogy confirmed for me that the charging feature could be turned off, leaving your batteries charging from the SCC and your converter, as intended.

I think the Zamp stuff is good. Made in Oregon. Very responsive customer service when I talked to them on the phone. Main issue with Zamp is that their panels are $$$$$. About 3-3.5 times the going rate per W. Also, their controller is PWM, not MPPT. So I ended up with 340 W on pwm, probably about 300W equivalent on mppt.

It was installed Saturday by the dealer. Seems to be working well.

[glendar10]

Originally Posted by foldbak

I was wondering the same thing. Plug and play? Is there some kind of controller built in?

No that is part of the package you have to buy. But in the storage closet there is a plastic bubble behind it there is or should be the wiring for that. There also should be wires for the inverter. I have a 5er 2021 cougar and well none of it is there as it should be. If it was it would be very easy to put in the solar from Zamp solar just 3 parts and your done. To use potable on with some one else you need to check out the wire if as Zamp has the wire switch around on that one. Not roof top.

[mikec557]

I think I should clarify a little. The rooftop gland is from Zamp, but it's really just two SAE connections. Some folks say a Zamp connection is wired opposite of the "standard" way. Whether it is or not is irrelevant. It's the nature of SAE connectors. If you run into a situation that needs the opposite orientation, you just plug in a gender changer. They're cheap. You can buy anybody's solar panels. Usually non-Zamp panels have MC4 connectors. Amazon sells two MC4 to SAE adapters and two gender changers for about $15. So buy whatever panels you want.

As for the factory location and connections for the solar charge controller and for an inverter (two different concepts) (and you can do either one without doing the other), you'll find two loops of wire, one for each. There are no connectors on those wires. So it's not really "plug and play." it's cut, strip, connect or fasten to each piece of equipment. Don't get me wrong, it's not hard to do. Whether you buy Zamp or Other Brand, the task is the same, so buy what you like.

The beauty is the the pre-wire done by Keystone. Especially having the 3 outlets pre-wired to The Loop for easy connection to or through an inverter. Not to mention the consolidation of the wiring and equipment.

Hope that helps.

Mike

[glendar10]

Originally Posted by rlh1957

Removed that black dome shaped cover that makes you think Keystone has some sort of controller, inverter or at least some wire terminations... Nada, Zip, Nothing. Makes a goo emergency water bowl for the dog.
They have done nothing but sell you an idea.

This solar per wire is a joke as we just ought a new 2021. Cougar30 RLS and these prep is a joke mine has one wire that is tied into battery and goes up to the roof where the panels plug into as it had 13.9 volt at roof. Guess they don’t know a power feed from a panel feed. There is a plan on what they should have wired the do not do inverter. But wires yes.there should be 4 wires under the bubble for the controller. Inverterfeed should be 2 age wire as per the drawing . None of this was in my 2021cougar and if I o to dealer might fix it if the know what they are doing.
Picture is not great sorry will try to get better but you can see what
Should be there. This is a keystone drawing.

[mikec557]

Originally Posted by glendar10

This solar per wire is a joke as we just ought a new 2021. Cougar30 RLS and these prep is a joke mine has one wire that is tied into battery and goes up to the roof where the panels plug into as it had 13.9 volt at roof. Guess they don’t know a power feed from a panel feed. There is a plan on what they should have wired the do not do inverter. But wires yes.there should be 4 wires under the bubble for the controller. Inverterfeed should be 2 age wire as per the drawing . None of this was in my 2021cougar and if I o to dealer might fix it if the know what they are doing.
Picture is not great sorry will try to get better but you can see what
Should be there. This is a keystone drawing.

To anyone contemplating the installation of an inverter, keep in mind the specification of 2ga wire in the drawing is for the 1200 watt size inverter shown in the drawing. Use the right size wire for whatever size inverter you install. Glendar is right though, keystone does not provide the wire/cable from the batteries to the inverter location. But, if they did their job, they should have provided a loop of romex at the inverter location.

[sonofcy]

Originally Posted by mikec557

To anyone contemplating the installation of an inverter, keep in mind the specification of 2ga wire in the drawing is for the 1200 watt size inverter shown in the drawing. Use the right size wire for whatever size inverter you install. Glendar is right though, keystone does not provide the wire/cable from the batteries to the inverter location. But, if they did their job, they should have provided a loop of romex at the inverter location.

Romex??? Inverters use welding cable. Mine is 4/0 or 0000 which is 5 times thicker than 2awg and the wire length is less than 3ft.

If you are not a full-timer doing a lot of boondocking what keystone installs is adequate. For full time with a lot of boondocking you need a lot more.
I used the keystone wires to pull through the proper size wires. None of my wire losses exceed 2% now. All primary wires 4/0, panels to combiner shortened 10awg, combiner to MPPT 4awg all misc 6awg

[mikec557]

Originally Posted by sonofcy

Romex??? Inverters use welding cable. Mine is 4/0 or 0000 which is 5 times thicker than 2awg and the wire length is less than 3ft....

I think perhaps you misunderstood me. Your 4/0 wire equates to the non-existent 2ga wire referenced in the drawing. Both of which connect the inverter to the battery bank.

The loop of Romex is part of the OTG pre-wiring too. It's origin comes from the breaker panel, then loops in the pass-through in a pull behind 2020 or newer TT with the OTG package. It then continues to three 120vac outlets inside the camper, Typically one located in the bedroom, one in the kitchen, and one behind the TV. This is all part of the OTG package. Keystone intention, per the drawing, is for you to cut the Romex loop and install an inverter with shore power pass through. Thus the three outlets are powered either by the inverter or shore power when plugged in at a campsite.

The three outlets are not powered by 4/0 nor 2ga wire. Those wires are used to connect the inverter to the battery bank.

Hope I made that clearer.

[sonofcy]

Originally Posted by mikec557

I think perhaps you misunderstood me. Your 4/0 wire equates to the non-existent 2ga wire referenced in the drawing. Both of which connect the inverter to the battery bank.

The loop of Romex is part of the OTG pre-wiring too. It's origin comes from the breaker panel, then loops in the pass-through in a pull behind 2020 or newer TT with the OTG package. It then continues to three 120vac outlets inside the camper, Typically one located in the bedroom, one in the kitchen, and one behind the TV. This is all part of the OTG package. Keystone intention, per the drawing, is for you to cut the Romex loop and install an inverter with shore power pass through. Thus the three outlets are powered either by the inverter or shore power when plugged in at a campsite.

The three outlets are not powered by 4/0 nor 2ga wire. Those wires are used to connect the inverter to the battery bank.

Hope I made that clearer.

Yes, now I understand.
In my case one leg of my 50 amp cable goes thru the 3,000W hybrid inverter. I moved 2 breakers so that the entire living area minus the fireplace is powered via the inverter. The other half of the main AC panel now has the washer, dryer, bedroom AC, water heater, fireplace and a spare since the converter is now not needed and is disconnected.

[mikec557]

Originally Posted by sonofcy

Yes, now I understand.
In my case one leg of my 50 amp cable goes thru the 3,000W hybrid inverter. I moved 2 breakers so that the entire living area minus the fireplace is powered via the inverter. The other half of the main AC panel now has the washer, dryer, bedroom AC, water heater, fireplace and a spare since the converter is now not needed and is disconnected.

👍
Sounds like a nice setup you have there.

[sonofcy]

Originally Posted by mikec557

👍
Sounds like a nice setup you have there.

Fairly standard Victron & Battle Born setup. Only 400AH of LiFePO4, might up it to 600. 4x180W panels on manual tilters and a hybrid 3,000 watt inverter with 120A charger and 50 amp passthrough even on a 30 amp post because the batteries automatically will add the extra 20A.

HUGE difference between a regular inverter and a Hybrid or pass thru inverter.

We had some wind the other day and power went out a couple of times (I get an email from the inverter when that happens) and the TV show I was streaming didn't even notice. Think of it as a very big UPS.

[glendar10]

Any one know if the roof port for Zamp is wired the same backwards ? If so why can I not just change the fed wires to the opset to use other systems panels