Disconnect between dealer info and my research on TV

[Fulltime Teachers]

**I moved this here. I posted in the wrong area.


So, I started the search for my TV today. I went to a local Ford dealership that has been in the area for over 40 years. I spoke to the truck fleet sales manager, a nice gentleman who has worked at that same dealership for 15 years. So, a small southern town, with a well-respected salesman.

There is a disconnect from what he is telling me compared to my own research, and I do not understand where that disconnect it.

My 5th Wheel Specs: Total Max weight: 18,000 pounds
Hitch Weight: 3650 pounds empty, but at 180000 x .25 it will be 4500 pounds
Height: 13'6"

Ford F 350 XL 6.7L V8 Diesel
6 speed
3.31 Elect. Locking Axle
11100 # GVWR pack
Heavy duty alt.
172" WB
Weight 7300 pounds

Now assuming the gentleman was knowledgeable and trustworthy, which he seemed to be, then there must be something I do not understand. He said this truck would tow 24,000 pounds and mine would be no work for this truck.

However, by my calculations, using the Before You Buy App located at http://bybrv.com/, I see this TV would be at a minus.

I used the data from this source for the TV:

http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...8874|750719615

6.7L Power Stroke Turbo Diesel V8 3.31 23500 GCWR
Base Curb Weight - F-350 SRW 6.7 7309 GVW
Raptor 365 LEV 18000 GVWR
No Go -1809

The hitch weight for an 18,000 Fiver will be 4500 pounds just itself. Not that I will have it loaded at 18k, more like 16 k, but that is what the Raptor is rated at, so I am using these numbers.

So, where is the disconnect between my research and the dealer? If I go with the 3.73 axle, then I will be a go according to the app .

Anyone have any ideas?

[hankpage]

I don't know much about Fords but I wouldn't want to tow anything with a rear higher than 3.73. My last truck had a 3.54, it was great solo but worked like hell on the long hills. Also you might want to check with some of the folks in the Toy Hauler section since they don't always follow the 25% rule for pin weight because of the way they are loaded. JM2¢, Hank ......... By the way Welcome to the forum.

[f6bits]

My first guess is that he's confusing GCWR with its tow rating.

It also appears that you're headed into dually territory.

[KanTC]

It's also possible the salesmen may have mis-quoted the towing capacity for an "F-450" by mistake. It's hard to say since neither the 2012 or 2013 Ford towing guides show
'exactly' 24,000 lbs. [his figure] in any capacity. That said, and based on the info you provided, your TH (once loaded) is most likely too much trailer for a SRW truck:
[On edit - note, the 3.73 axle is only shown available on a dually].

2013 F-350 SRW 4x2 Long bed Crew Cab GVWR 11,100

Max Payload* 3870 lbs

Max 5th wheel towing: 16,300 lbs (for both 3.31 & 3.55 axles)

GCVWR: 23,500 lbs (for both 3.31 & 3.55 axles)

*The payload # listed in the literature is not a guaranteed payload number... it's an "up to" figure,
ie the max possible payload available depending on the weight of special packages/options added.
The 'actual' tire load/payload capacity for every truck is usually listed on the driver's side door post/jam.

2013
http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...tions/payload/

http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...ations/towing/

2012
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...FLRVTT_gde.pdf


Hope this helps,
Terri, the Chevy co-pilot

[theeyres]

How do you know when a salesman is lying? When he moves his lips. ...or some such thing. Trust you figures. I think you have figured it out. Salesman seldom know what they are talking about. They are hired off the street with little, and at times, no knowledge.

[allmi01]

If you are goign to be towing that heavy, I'd be looking at F350 DRW 6.7 ToxMax package (4.10's or 4.30's). That woudl be the lightest truck.

If it were me, I'd drop the extra $ and go F450, 6.7 TowMax which definitely woudl fit your needs.

Downside is that with 4.10's your fuel mileage when not towing will be mid teens at 60. PowerStroke engines are notorious for fuel mileage drop at 2000 RPM's! I own 2, see my sig. I've towed with both. I et between 9.5 to 12.5 MPG's either way. The Excursion with 3.73's gets 21 MPG at 63 MPH. The F350 with 4.30's gets 16.5 MPG at 60 MPH.

I love the the way the F350 handles the trailer. Mine is 10k loaded.

My .02 cents worth

[Fulltime Teachers]

Originally Posted by hankpage

I don't know much about Fords but I wouldn't want to tow anything with a rear higher than 3.73. My last truck had a 3.54, it was great solo but worked like hell on the long hills. Also you might want to check with some of the folks in the Toy Hauler section since they don't always follow the 25% rule for pin weight because of the way they are loaded. JM2¢, Hank ......... By the way Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the advice. I will be looking over there as well. And thanks for the welcome!

[Fulltime Teachers]

Originally Posted by f6bits

My first guess is that he's confusing GCWR with its tow rating.

It also appears that you're headed into dually territory.

I think he has to be, but to hear him talk he is an expert.
/sigh

Since I will only be towing a few times a year, and even then only a couple of hundred miles in any direction, I really didn't want to have to go with a dually. The TV will also be my family vehicle, but if I have to I have to. :P It does seem this way.

[Fulltime Teachers]

Originally Posted by theeyres

How do you know when a salesman is lying? When he moves his lips. ...or some such thing. Trust you figures. I think you have figured it out. Salesman seldom know what they are talking about. They are hired off the street with little, and at times, no knowledge.

Thanks for your reply. This guy has years of experience. What I think is happening is that they are quoting the brochures. The 2013 Super duty brochure says 24k, but the tow guides for each model are specific. Either way, I am a bit disappointed.

[Fulltime Teachers]

Originally Posted by KanTC

It's also possible the salesmen may have mis-quoted the towing capacity for an "F-450" by mistake. It's hard to say since neither the 2012 or 2013 Ford towing guides show
'exactly' 24,000 lbs. [his figure] in any capacity. That said, and based on the info you provided, your TH (once loaded) is most likely too much trailer for a SRW truck:
[On edit - note, the 3.73 axle is only shown available on a dually].

2013 F-350 SRW 4x2 Long bed Crew Cab GVWR 11,100

Max Payload* 3870 lbs

Max 5th wheel towing: 16,300 lbs (for both 3.31 & 3.55 axles)

GCVWR: 23,500 lbs (for both 3.31 & 3.55 axles)

*The payload # listed in the literature is not a guaranteed payload number... it's an "up to" figure,
ie the max possible payload available depending on the weight of special packages/options added.
The 'actual' tire load/payload capacity for every truck is usually listed on the driver's side door post/jam.

2013
http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...tions/payload/

http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...ations/towing/

2012
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...FLRVTT_gde.pdf


Hope this helps,
Terri, the Chevy co-pilot

Hi Terry,

I did not know it was in the door jamb. This does help, and I didn't know the 3.73 is only the dually.
I did not want to go to a dually if I did not have to since I will be using this TV as a family vehicle 300 other days of the year. If I must, then I must.

So, I may decide to go with the F 350 diesel but with the dually. I will research that next.

Thanks for the help!

[Fulltime Teachers]

Originally Posted by allmi01

If you are goign to be towing that heavy, I'd be looking at F350 DRW 6.7 ToxMax package (4.10's or 4.30's). That woudl be the lightest truck.

If it were me, I'd drop the extra $ and go F450, 6.7 TowMax which definitely woudl fit your needs.

Downside is that with 4.10's your fuel mileage when not towing will be mid teens at 60. PowerStroke engines are notorious for fuel mileage drop at 2000 RPM's! I own 2, see my sig. I've towed with both. I et between 9.5 to 12.5 MPG's either way. The Excursion with 3.73's gets 21 MPG at 63 MPH. The F350 with 4.30's gets 16.5 MPG at 60 MPH.

I love the the way the F350 handles the trailer. Mine is 10k loaded.

My .02 cents worth

Thanks for the reply. If I told you I would only be towing a few times a year and only within a couple of hundred miles a day would you still recommend the 450 6.7 towmax? If so, what year would you recommend if I cannot afford a new one.

Thanks

[fla-gypsy]

Originally Posted by Fulltime Teachers

Thanks for your reply. This guy has years of experience. What I think is happening is that they are quoting the brochures. The 2013 Super duty brochure says 24k, but the tow guides for each model are specific. Either way, I am a bit disappointed.

Why would you be disappointed? He quoted the brochure numbers like any salesman would do. Did you really expect him to know the numbers on every option package and rear axle configuration?

[Ken / Claudia]

My truck is listed below. 3.73 rear end. I had a in bed camper wt. loaded 4400lbs and towed the listed boat 3800lbs. Up/down 6% grades at 50mph lowes up to 60mph. Alot of miles was traveled with that combo. I upgraded the tires to a max wt rating 3740lbs each and shocks.. air bags where not needed to have a level truck until I got that boat in 2008. That 350+/-extra lbs stagged the rear. Dually would work better but, you can even get 19.5 inch wheels/tires that are rated to carry alot more on a SRW.

[allmi01]

Honestly, the F350 dually would do the job but I personally woudl go bigger. I gues I like to over engineer solutions.

If you can't go the cost of a new one (I know I can't), 2011 and newer with the 6.7 woudl be the preference. 2008 to 2010 with the 6.4 would be the next choice. 2005 to 2007 witht he 6.0 lastly but are the most affordable.

The trick buying a used truck in the class (no matter which manufacturer) is how the prior owner(s) did maintenance. My 06 F350 lost an injector (real rare from what I know) and did some internal damage to the engine.

I'll post more about that once I pull the engine and open it up.

To get back on track, just make sure the truch has 3.73 to 4.10 axle ratio's and you shoudl be fine. The 3.11's and 3.55's will give you bettwr empty MPG but will lower your towing ratings.

Hope this helps some. Good luck on your search.

[Fulltime Teachers]

Originally Posted by allmi01

Honestly, the F350 dually would do the job but I personally woudl go bigger. I gues I like to over engineer solutions.

If you can't go the cost of a new one (I know I can't), 2011 and newer with the 6.7 woudl be the preference. 2008 to 2010 with the 6.4 would be the next choice. 2005 to 2007 witht he 6.0 lastly but are the most affordable.

The trick buying a used truck in the class (no matter which manufacturer) is how the prior owner(s) did maintenance. My 06 F350 lost an injector (real rare from what I know) and did some internal damage to the engine.

I'll post more about that once I pull the engine and open it up.

To get back on track, just make sure the truch has 3.73 to 4.10 axle ratio's and you shoudl be fine. The 3.11's and 3.55's will give you bettwr empty MPG but will lower your towing ratings.

Hope this helps some. Good luck on your search.

Sorry it took me a bit to respond. I was out of town on business and just got back where I can relax! Your information did help, a lot!

I think I will go with the 350 DRW with 3.73. Price wise it looks like I need to find a 2011 6.7. I wouldn't feel comfortable going to the 6.4 years since I am not a mechanic nor do I know anything about trucks.

I hope anyone else in the future reading these posts when they search will learn from my research. TV's are daunting to us newbies.

[SAABDOCTOR]

Hi I have been driving a daully for 8 years. even the DW got used to it real quick. yeh parking it can be a bit of a chore.My DW is a teacher too. when she takes it to school the boys go nuts! Mrs "B" has a cool truck! In the long run with that camper you will be glad you went dually! Enjoy the camper!!