Need to 'lift' the 5er .... or

[Dave W]

Dilemma - we hauled our 5er a bunch of miles (9000+) last year and quite a few the previous and it needs a little TLC in the suspension department. I have the MorRyde wet bolt kit and will install it, probably this upcoming week. Yesterday while replacing the 'disappearing' fender attaching self tapping screws with some SS machine screws and nuts found that the tires had bottomed out and had left some scuffs. I have, since purchased new, felt that the suspension is soggy at best for a trailer that actually does cross country travels on some of our nation's less then great highways.

- I've considered adding an extra spring leaf but the fixed hangers aren't really very robust and with it being a Lippert frame, not sure that the added stresses will be safe for the frame. MorRyde X factor kits might help for added strength there.

- Then, and the easiest, just add a 1" block between the axle and spring, use new U-bolts and go on my way. More then an inch, might get into stability problems. The 5er already has a the axle under the spring so the common fall back of an over/under kit wont work.

- I've also considered as a last resort, adding a subframe made up of some heavier stock and in turn, raising the 5er a couple inches or more, depending on what size material I would use. This in turn may put the roof, or at least the soon to be installed fron a/c above the 'usual' 13'6" guideline. It also would be quite time consuming plus expensive as it would require a certified welder.

Or, just say the heck with it and use it 'as is' and if something breaks, fix it

[chuckster57]

Have you looked into adding shocks? My Jayco had them and I see them on some bigger fivers so I know they are still available. The spring packs have indexing pins, so unless there is a block made specifically for use with, some machining would be required.

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Have you looked into adding shocks? My Jayco had them and I see them on some bigger fivers so I know they are still available. The spring packs have indexing pins, so unless there is a block made specifically for use with, some machining would be required.

There really is no easy way to add them to this particular 5ers low chassis. That was one thing that I looked at when we first bought the trailer. Supposedly, the MorRyde CRE3000 handles that part of the suspension.

[JRTJH]

Dave W,

If I remember correctly, I believe the Correct Track system add 1" of height to the suspension... I could be "mis-remembering" (happens more and more as the sun rises multiple times between "memories") LOL

You might want to check out the system and possibly contact Lippert to see if it will "bolt on" and "add height"....

http://store.lci1.com/correct-track-...sion-alignment

ADDED: OOPS: I just read the description on Lippert's site. They say, "Raises trailer 2 inches"

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Dave W,

If I remember correctly, I believe the Correct Track system add 1" of height to the suspension... I could be "mis-remembering" (happens more and more as the sun rises multiple times between "memories") LOL

You might want to check out the system and possibly contact Lippert to see if it will "bolt on" and "add height"....

http://store.lci1.com/correct-track-...sion-alignment

ADDED: OOPS: I just read the description on Lippert's site. They say, "Raises trailer 2 inches"

Thanks - I had seen that in the past but CRS ...........

Interesting concept - don't really need/want 2" but that for sure would handle any problem with wheel clearance. Unfortunately it wouldn't 'cure' the weak shackle and bracket problem which the recently ordered three Mor Ryde X factor kits will handle.

I'll bookmark the Correct Track system though as it may end up being cost effective vs any other choices.

[chuckster57]

CRS is starting to creep in here too. I completely forgot about correct track....DOH!! See them on Grand design all the time.

[Garyl53]

You could try adding the Correct Track spring hanger extender brackets to only the spring ends. If you do not add the Correct Track brackets to the CRI 3000 hanger then the axle, being half the distance, will lower (raise the trailer) by 1 inch instead of 2 in. if all brackets are used. You would also gain the alignment capability of the Correct Track system since that is done using the hangers on the spring ends, not the center hanger.
As an alternative I would look at adding shocks since the rubbing may have only happened during extremely bad road conditions and might not be an issue over most roads. Maybe the Joyriders would work for you if you don't have the distance for a normal shock installation. A bit expensive but can be self installed easily (well maybe not easily!).
https://www.campingworld.com/include...stallation.pdf

Good Luck!

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by Garyl53

................. Maybe the Joyriders would work for you if you don't have the distance for a normal shock installation. A bit expensive but can be self installed easily (well maybe not easily!).
https://www.campingworld.com/include...stallation.pdf

Good Luck!

Gary, I just read through the .pdf instructions and that Joyrider shock arrangement just does not 'look' right especially since they started out showing an acute angle then go on and do the same thing with their kit with a compounded angle. At their 35* fore and aft angle, they are only about 80% effective. Leaning inward as well at the reported 15* angle may trim that number even more plus the shocks are mounted too far in and will lose further capabilities. No, I'm not a shock engineer but went through some of this with a car I built.

Thanks for the 'exercise' as I needed to do a little more thinking then usual

[dcg9381]

They're right - adding a correct track system to the existing shackles, will net result about +1" without having to block the axles.

Two other options:

1) have a trailer shop extend the existing brackets.

2) http://www.trailerblocks.com

Bolt on. They use aluminum blocks, kinda pricey, but setup right for trailer suspension. They use grade 8 9/16 bolts, which are very hard to find. Or just upgrade to grade 5 9/16 bolts for about 1/2 of what they charge.

You can fangle your own setup with steel and 9/16 bolts for 50% less, but not in a one-stop-shop.....


Other advice:
1) Balance your wheels.
2) If you're on 235/85 you can drop to 235/80 Sailun's without doing the suspension, but factor in $650 for tires. If you have factory tires, I'd do this first...

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by dcg9381

They're right - adding a correct track system to the existing shackles, will net result about +1" without having to block the axles.

Two other options:

1) have a trailer shop extend the existing brackets.

2) http://www.trailerblocks.com

Bolt on. They use aluminum blocks, kinda pricey, but setup right for trailer suspension. They use grade 8 9/16 bolts, which are very hard to find. Or just upgrade to grade 5 9/16 bolts for about 1/2 of what they charge.

You can fangle your own setup with steel and 9/16 bolts for 50% less, but not in a one-stop-shop.....


Other advice:
1) Balance your wheels.
2) If you're on 235/85 you can drop to 235/80 Sailun's without doing the suspension, but factor in $650 for tires. If you have factory tires, I'd do this first...

Thanks for that interesting link and info.
In response to your comments, without having a subframe, no way will a Lippert, nor, IMO, these days of material cutbacks, any other brand chassis support extended brackets without other reinforcing mods.

When I was wandering the 'net for ways to raise the trailer, never did see that trailer block option though that for sure is one way that I'm considering and noted in my first OP. They are beyond pricey though - ~$350 bucks for a partial kit and close to $400 for a full one. Phew!! I wonder why they want to supply 9/16 u-bolts? That contradicts their blogged theory of reducing unsprung weight with aluminum blocks as the original bolts are, I believe, 1/2" Heck, my 8300+ pound truck has 9/16" U-bolts on the drive wheels behind 800 lb ft of torque

If I end up going with blocks and it looks like the best way at this time, I'm sure that I can get the material locally for a bunch less.

Oh and the wheels are balanced and I have virtually new LT tires, having replaced the supplied 'bombs'.

Thanks to all as you are 'pushing' me in a direction instead of walking in circles

[dcg9381]

I'm suggesting one option is to add a "subframe". A subframe being appropriately welded square/rectangular tube essentially used to drop the suspension attachment points. I've seen quite a few raised this way and it's better than creating more torque on the springs when you raise the axles via blocks. I'd probably do it this way myself, but my trailer won't fit into my shop.. :-)

9/16 u-bolts are probably a good idea. I believe I looked at my axle specs (7000lb) and stock bolts are 1/2" grade 5. Adding blocks creates a torque arm when braking, so I consider the larger bolt mandatory. I could only find grade 8 9/16" bolts from a single source, so they are probably custom.

I think the unsprung weight thing is a a big of hogwash. Aluminum is a nice material, but I'm not sure that less weight makes much of a difference - at least not at the 1"-1.5" block that I'm looking at. It's a very expensive kit for what it is, but it's all in one place...

Have you weighed your rig? I believe that Lippert recommends 3" of clearance between the top of the tire and the deck based on what I read.

If you have that clearance and you're within weight, I might suspect a fatigued spring... You can get replacement springs in 500 lb increments. Trailers don't have much suspension travel - so something to watch.

[Dave W]

Made my decision to lift the 5er an inch using blocks and 1" longer U-bolts. Since 1" x 1-3/4" hot or cold rolled steel locally seems to be made from unobtanium, will be using 6061-T6 aluminum instead (dang, that stuff is pricey @~.75/lineal inch!!).

A note, there is in excess of 3" clearance, tire to body clearance and the springs are at about their 1.75" loaded height (per Dexter). A good set of shocks may have prevented contact but we did travel some really nasty roads with heaves last fall. I may investigate installing shocks if I can find the 'right' kit or possibly fab my own - but there just is not a lot of room for them.

[dcg9381]

Dave, My source for the U-bolts and axle plates, note, these are for a 7000lb axle:

stengelbros.com: 5U-2308R 5U-2308R 9/16 X 3-1/8 X 8-3/4R - $80.00 shipped

ordertrailerparts.com: 4x U-Bolt Tie Plate for a 1-3/4" Spring, 3" Axle Beam - Upgraded - $38.00

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by dcg9381

Dave, My source for the U-bolts and axle plates, note, these are for a 7000lb axle:

stengelbros.com: 5U-2308R 5U-2308R 9/16 X 3-1/8 X 8-3/4R - $80.00 shipped

ordertrailerparts.com: 4x U-Bolt Tie Plate for a 1-3/4" Spring, 3" Axle Beam - Upgraded - $38.00

Thanks - I got 'em coming from eTrailer - Redline 9/16" kits (APUBR-9) with nuts and spring plates for about 55 bucks with shipping.

MORryde left the small parts bag out of one of the X-Factor kits and etrailer just shipped the u-bolts today so will have to wait on them to start my suspension upgrades. So with that said, I have some honey do's - a kitchen backsplash to tile, a new exhaust fan to install and the rest of the walls to paint instead (It's also raining on and off)

[Bushman512000]

Hi I bought a New 2500 Dodge and the truck is 4" higher than the retired 2009 also a Dodge so I had the boys at the spring shop lift the trailer 4" and in about 6 hours all was done and under $300.00 pulls great and is done by people that do this work every day...they made the blocks/u-bolts and have the jacks and know how to do it right ...saying this why mick mouse get things right after all You drive down the road that is for every one ....Bushman

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by Bushman512000

Hi I bought a New 2500 Dodge and the truck is 4" higher than the retired 2009 also a Dodge so I had the boys at the spring shop lift the trailer 4" and in about 6 hours all was done and under $300.00 pulls great and is done by people that do this work every day...they made the blocks/u-bolts and have the jacks and know how to do it right ...saying this why mick mouse get things right after all You drive down the road that is for every one ....Bushman

I've heard that way too high complaint from other Dodge owners. Evidently FCA didn't get the word that lots of those trucks are used for hauling a TT/5th wheel of some sort. Ford at least has a 4" or 2" rear spring block, depending on model plus, if I've read things right, the 2" is included with the 2016 5er option on all. My past F350 had the 4" and hauling a 5er nose high was interesting. The current F250 has 2" blocks though does have a set of 12K springs

Unfortunately the only spring shops locally are in a really nasty part of town and nowhere I would pull the trailer .... and for sure would never leave it without me being 'attached' to it. If the U-bolts arrive in the next day or so, my mod will be done in the driveway as I've made up the block.

[Dave W]

I got about 2/3rds of the project finished yesterday with only final torquing left today. It took a few more hours then I felt I should have taken but a flex adapter on my impact gun spit it's pin into my thumb, taking out a divot, leaking a bunch of sticky red stuff on my tools and work.

The wet bolts were absolutely needed with a couple of the original nylon bushings virtually gone and the rest well on the way at about 12,000 miles or so.

A few observations on my project:
The brass bushing just slipped into place in the spring eyes vs. having to drive them in on the two previous trailers - hmmmm, does that translate into slop and wear.

Next, there is no way that the new wet bolts can use the existing serrations left when the old bolts are removed. If you put the zerks inside as I do, there is no way that you can tighten the new bolts at 50 lb ft of torque to fully seat them flush. To use a rat tail file or die grinder to just open the holes for seating works well.

Lastly - the spring brackets are pretty light and you can easily bend/flex them which translates into care if you feel the need to beat them out

Then, with the MORryde CRE 3000 - the @#$% spring shackles reverse. A question - will they automatically revert correctly when I put the 5er back on its wheels or do I need to get 'physical'?

The 1" block I made up fit perfectly. The 9/16" U-bolts (90 lb ft torque for Gr5) and bolt plate fit perfectly and are so much stronger looking. The final dimensions are 1-3/4w x 1' tall x 4" long - I used aluminum with a 3/8"x1/2" socket head cap screw as the center bolt with a 3/4"dia x 1/2" deep recess to capture the spring center bolt.

The MORryde X-Factor cross members will need to wait for another day when I can move the rear gray tank drain and the main gas line. The cross members are well built but just wont fit our 5er without some changes.

Wheel bearings are next with the second a/c to be installed early next week then off to its summer home CG with several trips in the planning stage

[chuckster57]

Shackles flip on us all the time when we put a trailer up on blocks for axle service. If you jack up the other axle at the spring perch, the shackle will POP and flip. Its loud but not harmful.

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Shackles flip on us all the time when we put a trailer up on blocks for axle service. If you jack up the other axle at the spring perch, the shackle will POP and flip. Its loud but not harmful.

I figured that was kinda 'normal' though I hadn't the 'pleasure' on our other past TTs and 5ers, especially all four. The MORryde low end CRE suspension just allows too much movement is my first thought. I think the Dexter E-Z Flex may be a better choice and might end up in my future if this one doesn't hold up well

[Nagrompj]

If you are still thinking about shocks here are a few pictures.
The top bracket is just 2x2 box tube the same wall thickness as the factory sub frame. A center drilled piece of 1 inch round stock is inserted through the bracket and welded in place. The top mount is welded to the factory subframe. The bottom mount is a aftermarket Jeep shock mount. When welding the bottom mount be sure to pull the brake wires out of the axel. It worked great for me!
This is how I did it and I'm only posting this to stir your imagination. Use your best judgment before making any modifications to your trailer.