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Old 08-29-2020, 10:06 PM   #1
navigator51
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Towing Limits Ram 2500

Hello all, I know this gets beat to death seems like, however I just want some clarification. Since I am not at home right now and can't get to the scales, I figured this is my best option to start. I have a 16 Ram 2500 Cummins. according to the ram tow charts the GVWR is 10k. GAWR is 11.5k Rear axle rating is 6k with a base weight of 2913. Front is rated to 5750 and base weight of 4707. Total base weight of 7620. My truck doesn't have that many options as an SLT. I have estimated passengers and cargo in the truck at around 600lbs, the 5th wheel hitch is 120lb. Obviously looking at the payload of 2380, minus the hitch and cargo, that would put the remaining payload down to 1660lb. Having said that, with a GAWR of 11.5k, and most of that 600lb of cargo in the cab, I would guess, I would have close to 2600lb to spare on the rear axle load (also accounting for the 120lb hitch directly over the axle.



I know I see a lot of 3/4 ton trucks pulling some decent sized fifth wheels down the road. And I must admit, I've crossed the scales with a flatbed gooseneck with a combo weight over 35000lbs with a 3/4 ton (not smart nor safe). I don't wanna be that guy who says "well i saw him do it, so I did it" However my man question is, if I am under my GCWR of 25k, and under my GAWR on both axles, but am over on my GVWR, is that a major problem? I haven't purchased a camper yet, and don't want to get one that's way too big for my truck. When I first started looking at Keystone's, I really liked the Laredo 342RD, but it has a dry pin weight of 2065. And I am sure once I get it loaded with probably close to 1000lb of gear, that weight is going to be closer to 2200-2300 if I were to go with this model. However, I am questioning it, even though it seems to be a real nice rig due to the pin weight. The max trailer weight is only 13000, which isn't that much of a towing load, but the high hitch weight looks to be the problem. I dont know of any camper dealer who would let me take a trailer off the lot and run to the scales without purchasing the trailer either. Does anyone have any knowledge of pulling a Laredo 342RD camper or one similar to this one and what the loaded pin weight is actually around? If so are you doing it with a 3/4 ton. Please pass on any and all helpful information. Thanks-
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Old 08-30-2020, 03:30 AM   #2
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Welcome! Don't overthink the numbers. Your payload 2380 lbs and your pin weight based on 20 percent of a 13000 lb trailer will be 2600 lbs. As you suspected, that is quite a bit too much camper for your 3/4 ton truck. Look at something a smaller would be my advice or buy a new truck capable of towing the Laredo.
BTW: The numbers on the towing chart are not YOUR SPECIFIC VEHICLE numbers. Look on the door frame for your white/yellow placard that gives you the actual payload:
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Old 08-30-2020, 04:47 AM   #3
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To the OP, I could have stopped reading after " according to the ram tow charts". As George pointed out, get the weight ratings for your truck from your truck as they are the only numbers that pertain to your truck.

As for seeing "other 3/4 ton pulling whatever" I see people speeding down residential streets, driving drunk, driving on bald tires, Truckers cooking their books while driving on stimulants, and I don't aspire to emulate their behaviors.

You're doing the right thing by researching. The first step in any research is getting the "hard data" which in your case is the real numbers from your truck.
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Old 08-30-2020, 06:03 AM   #4
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You can't pick and choose which ratings you are going to ignore.

As George has pointed out, the payload sticker will say "the combined weight of passengers and cargo should never exceed XXX pounds..." The payload is likely where you will be limited with a 3/4 ton truck. Even if your truck drive train is "rated" to pull 50,000, you can't just ignore that payload rating.
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Old 08-30-2020, 07:03 AM   #5
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OP, you are making the mistake too many make. You can't pick and choose the weight limitations of the truck. They all apply equally. The first one you go over is going to be THE limiting factor for your truck. In your case you have the same problem everyone else has with a 3/4 ton diesel - payload. Once you hit it it's time to go smaller.

I owned a Ram 2500 and it had a payload much more than yours (3190). I would not have ever thought of putting the trailer you are asking about on it - I didn't have enough payload so hopefully you can see that at 800lbs. less there is going to be a problem.

At 13k and a 20% pin weight you will be significantly over your payload before you add/do anything else. That should be the "whoops stop right there" moment.
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Old 08-30-2020, 07:08 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
OP, you are making the mistake too many make. You can't pick and choose the weight limitations of the truck. They all apply equally. The first one you go over is going to be THE limiting factor for your truck. In your case you have the same problem everyone else has with a 3/4 ton diesel - payload. Once you hit it it's time to go smaller.

I owned a Ram 2500 and it had a payload much more than yours (3190). I would not have ever thought of putting the trailer you are asking about on it - I didn't have enough payload so hopefully you can see that at 800lbs. less there is going to be a problem.

At 13k and a 20% pin weight you will be significantly over your payload before you add/do anything else. That should be the "whoops stop right there" moment.

D! Yours words sound strangely familiar!
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:08 AM   #7
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D! Yours words sound strangely familiar!

Yep, the same questions keep getting asked I guess.
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:09 AM   #8
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I've got a 3/4 ton F250. The payload is "right at 2200 pounds"... I tow a 30' Cougar XLite with an advertised "empty pin weight" of 1120 pounds. My actual pin weight pushes 1800 pounds when we're loaded for a trip. Given my weight over the "allotted 150 pounds? (40) plus the passenger's weight (DW) plus the hitch (120) plus the generator (45) plus the 5 gallon gas can (40) plus the stuff under the rear seat (50) plus the maps and console crap (25) plus the trailer pin (1800) we actually have a payload of around 2320...

THAT'S WITH A 10,000 POUND GVW XLITE TRAILER!!!!!!!

EVERY trip is a hassle in what to leave at home, what we "really need" and what "not to toss in, just in case"......

I try diligently to stay below my truck GVW and usually am able to do so.

YOU WILL FIND TRYING THAT WITH A 13,000 POUND GVW TRAILER TO BE IMPOSSIBLE..... Not, hard to do or fairly close, but IMPOSSIBLE....

Now, if you don't care about the potential of being sued in the event of an accident, if your "assets" aren't enough to worry about losing them, if you have enough working years to "rebuild a retirement nest egg", then maybe the possibility of losing everything won't loom in your conscience as it does in mine. I'm not willing to risk it all to "prove my truck can do it"... YMMV
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:29 AM   #9
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I went back and re-read the OP's original post. It doesn't look to me that he's trying to get away with something or trying to justify an underrated TV. Just the opposite. It appears he's trying to make sense of the numbers and asking for help in how to apply them.

As usual, the advice given is sound and that Laredo is going to need a 1-ton to stay safely inside the numbers. I hope the OP considers a smaller trailer or a bigger truck. I wish more folks would ask these kinds of questions before making an unwise purchase. Let's hope they listen
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Old 08-30-2020, 12:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jsb5717 View Post
I went back and re-read the OP's original post. It doesn't look to me that he's trying to get away with something or trying to justify an underrated TV. Just the opposite. It appears he's trying to make sense of the numbers and asking for help in how to apply them.

As usual, the advice given is sound and that Laredo is going to need a 1-ton to stay safely inside the numbers. I hope the OP considers a smaller trailer or a bigger truck. I wish more folks would ask these kinds of questions before making an unwise purchase. Let's hope they listen
I disagree, I think he is asking if he can use GAWR, which will allow him close to 3,000# for pin weight.
I think that once scaled he will have closer to 2,800# or less available on the rear axle, using that number he would likely exceed GVWR by 1,000#, best to get bigger TV or smaller 5er.
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Old 08-30-2020, 02:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by jsb5717 View Post
I went back and re-read the OP's original post. It doesn't look to me that he's trying to get away with something or trying to justify an underrated TV. Just the opposite. It appears he's trying to make sense of the numbers and asking for help in how to apply them.

As usual, the advice given is sound and that Laredo is going to need a 1-ton to stay safely inside the numbers. I hope the OP considers a smaller trailer or a bigger truck. I wish more folks would ask these kinds of questions before making an unwise purchase. Let's hope they listen

Correct. I am not trying to justify the purchase. I am seeking if gawr is what to use or the payload. Like I said I don’t want to be that guy using the excuse of everyone else is doing it. Yeah I pull my gooseneck overloaded but it’s always short distances on back roads not the interstate nor anything bigger than a county highway. However we plan on camping all over the US. Which I want to be smart and safe about so I will be looking for a smaller camper. I can’t get rid of my truck... I just got it running the way I want it lol. Thank y’all for the information. Now hopefully I gotta find a camper with a similar floor plan that my little ole girl can pull.
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Old 08-30-2020, 02:40 PM   #12
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Correct. I am not trying to justify the purchase. I am seeking if gawr is what to use or the payload. Like I said I don’t want to be that guy using the excuse of everyone else is doing it. Yeah I pull my gooseneck overloaded but it’s always short distances on back roads not the interstate nor anything bigger than a county highway. However we plan on camping all over the US. Which I want to be smart and safe about so I will be looking for a smaller camper. I can’t get rid of my truck... I just got it running the way I want it lol. Thank y’all for the information. Now hopefully I gotta find a camper with a similar floor plan that my little ole girl can pull.

Navigator, think about the gawr as the "drop dead", oh no, number that you don't want to exceed. Your truck will have the payload number and gvwr numbers. Both generally will keep you from going over gawr (hopefully) depending on what/how you load the back of the truck. Payload and gawr might give you a little bit of leeway but what that gawr number tells you is that is the weight the manufacturer has determined you can carry on that axle without it self destructing. IMO you don't want to get very close to it and certainly not exceed it.

Always calculate to meet the payload number first then check the others to make sure you didn't exceed one of them but, each of them are equally important and none should be exceeded if you are to stay within weight parameters and be as safe as you can.
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Old 08-30-2020, 03:36 PM   #13
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" I am seeking if gawr is what to use or the payload."

It's not a choice, once you've exceeded ANY of those ratings you're done. It's like a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. If you drive 12K miles in 10 months then your warranty is expired. It's whatever number you reach first.
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Old 08-30-2020, 05:05 PM   #14
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I've got a 3/4 ton F250. The payload is "right at 2200 pounds"... I tow a 30' Cougar XLite with an advertised "empty pin weight" of 1120 pounds. My actual pin weight pushes 1800 pounds when we're loaded for a trip. Given my weight over the "allotted 150 pounds? (40) plus the passenger's weight (DW) plus the hitch (120) plus the generator (45) plus the 5 gallon gas can (40) plus the stuff under the rear seat (50) plus the maps and console crap (25) plus the trailer pin (1800) we actually have a payload of around 2320...

THAT'S WITH A 10,000 POUND GVW XLITE TRAILER!!!!!!!

EVERY trip is a hassle in what to leave at home, what we "really need" and what "not to toss in, just in case"......

I try diligently to stay below my truck GVW and usually am able to do so.

YOU WILL FIND TRYING THAT WITH A 13,000 POUND GVW TRAILER TO BE IMPOSSIBLE..... Not, hard to do or fairly close, but IMPOSSIBLE....

Now, if you don't care about the potential of being sued in the event of an accident, if your "assets" aren't enough to worry about losing them, if you have enough working years to "rebuild a retirement nest egg", then maybe the possibility of losing everything won't loom in your conscience as it does in mine. I'm not willing to risk it all to "prove my truck can do it"... YMMV
How do you like the size of this camper? And are you camping with kids or anyone? And as I mentioned above, I am not trying to justify towing a camper that big, which I won’t. But from what I’m seeing, the lightest “dry pin weight” that keyston offers right now is an advertised weight of like 1300lb. And if you’re pushing it with a camper with 1100 I should be looking at travel trailers instead of a fifth wheels altogether. I appreciate your input and your situation. Question for you what does YMMV stand for?
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Old 08-30-2020, 05:10 PM   #15
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Old 08-30-2020, 05:28 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by navigator51 View Post
How do you like the size of this camper? And are you camping with kids or anyone? And as I mentioned above, I am not trying to justify towing a camper that big, which I won’t. But from what I’m seeing, the lightest “dry pin weight” that keyston offers right now is an advertised weight of like 1300lb. And if you’re pushing it with a camper with 1100 I should be looking at travel trailers instead of a fifth wheels altogether. I appreciate your input and your situation. Question for you what does YMMV stand for?
YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) or, You may not find the exact same situation or "mileage"....

We are a retire couple, usually travel with no children, however occasionally we take along one of our grandchildren (all adults now). We regularly make 5-8K trips lasting 3 or 4 months. Our "hassle" is buying a diesel F250 rather than a F350. That 1000 pounds of additional payload would make our towing/loading/watching payload closely a "thing of the past"... But, a heavier truck is simply not going to happen and at my age, this is likely the last truck I'll buy. So, we "make do" and watch what we load, what we leave and what we wish we had with us......
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Old 09-07-2020, 06:33 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by navigator51 View Post
Hello all, I know this gets beat to death seems like, however I just want some clarification. Since I am not at home right now and can't get to the scales, I figured this is my best option to start. I have a 16 Ram 2500 Cummins. according to the ram tow charts the GVWR is 10k. GAWR is 11.5k Rear axle rating is 6k with a base weight of 2913. Front is rated to 5750 and base weight of 4707. Total base weight of 7620. My truck doesn't have that many options as an SLT. I have estimated passengers and cargo in the truck at around 600lbs, the 5th wheel hitch is 120lb. Obviously looking at the payload of 2380, minus the hitch and cargo, that would put the remaining payload down to 1660lb. Having said that, with a GAWR of 11.5k, and most of that 600lb of cargo in the cab, I would guess, I would have close to 2600lb to spare on the rear axle load (also accounting for the 120lb hitch directly over the axle.



I know I see a lot of 3/4 ton trucks pulling some decent sized fifth wheels down the road. And I must admit, I've crossed the scales with a flatbed gooseneck with a combo weight over 35000lbs with a 3/4 ton (not smart nor safe). I don't wanna be that guy who says "well i saw him do it, so I did it" However my man question is, if I am under my GCWR of 25k, and under my GAWR on both axles, but am over on my GVWR, is that a major problem? I haven't purchased a camper yet, and don't want to get one that's way too big for my truck. When I first started looking at Keystone's, I really liked the Laredo 342RD, but it has a dry pin weight of 2065. And I am sure once I get it loaded with probably close to 1000lb of gear, that weight is going to be closer to 2200-2300 if I were to go with this model. However, I am questioning it, even though it seems to be a real nice rig due to the pin weight. The max trailer weight is only 13000, which isn't that much of a towing load, but the high hitch weight looks to be the problem. I dont know of any camper dealer who would let me take a trailer off the lot and run to the scales without purchasing the trailer either. Does anyone have any knowledge of pulling a Laredo 342RD camper or one similar to this one and what the loaded pin weight is actually around? If so are you doing it with a 3/4 ton. Please pass on any and all helpful information. Thanks-
Go on , <MOPAR OWNERS CONNECT> create an account and log in. Then put your vehicle VIN number and it will give you the exact towing capacity of YOUR truck as it was built. It will also give you any recalls, tech bulletins and if your truck was serviced at any dealer, it will give you the service record. You can also get the vehicle window sticker too.
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