Brand new RV issues

[RVbuying]

Bought a 2019 heartland toy hauler in march 2019. So many issues, shower leaks, detectors going off at night, fresh tank overflows, thermostats replaced first week of ownership and more. So, Oct 15th we turned it in for a 2020 keystone montana. All the same parts i realize but picked it for the floorplan and not too lose but a certain amount of money. Anyway, during the first shower water is leaking from under stall, and the new front window of this model is leaking. And the ceiling fan is about to fall in the floor. Called keystone really just to ask questions. It was shipp sept 19th to virginia arriving sept23rd. So they sell in a few weeks. Is their anywhere consumers are coming together to get regulations set forth by this industry? I was told they arent regulated in mfg. I was told to be a handy man and they will send me pumps parts etc. I dont want to work on RVs and make payments also. I want things to work. This industry is making so much money its ridiculous, we need to get some quality by hitting their pocketbooks for 300 million or more. I cant believe how much money they gotta be raking in. Where does this topic need to be directed. Or ill help an attorney make the case😁

[travelin texans]

First thing that comes to mind is I'd bet your attorney would love to take on a huge company like Thor, parent of both Keystone & Heartland, with their room full of lawyers for 2-3 years or more while you're footing the bill. If you're lucky you could get a new RV in a few years along with several hundred thousand dollar bill from your lawyer.
Next there's not one single individual working for Keystone reading this forum so not likely to get much help from them here. There are however a bunch of great folks with lots of know how that are willing to help you out that can/do work on & pay for theirs at the same time.
The RV industry is what it is & not likely to change any time in the near future.
If you're not willing to work on your RV, and pay for it too, then your best bet is get a good economical vehicle, a high limit credit card, a list of quality hotels, hit the road & enjoy!

[bobbecky]

By doing your own repairs, you will know the work is done right, and you will not have the rig parked at some dealer for months on end, subject to possible damage or even vandalism, while not being worked on. They ought to provide a repair manual with these rigs instead of the junk owners manual.

[sourdough]

I think Danny pretty much hit it on the head. As you seem to have experienced, RV ownership isn't really all peaches and roses. For those that want to be happy it actually requires the owner to accept the shortcomings of what they are going to get (all forums, all brands, everything) and make the best of it. Do you want the dealership to do all of it? Depending on the issues get ready to see your RV 6 months a year so they can fix something you could do in 15 minutes.

Owning an RV is what it is. If you don't want to spend your time to "work on an RV and make payments also" I would suggest you need to do one of 2 things; sell the RV or pay it off; there is no equation that says you don't have to work on an RV....period.

If you are not capable, or don't want, to do simple repairs (leak under the shower) and want your RV to be "perfect" with no issues.....you are going to be miserable.

[Ken / Claudia]

What's the dealer doing to help, that's who does warranty repairs.
Any RV should be free of defects but there not. And ones that are develop issues sooner or later. I have owned 9 rvs and worked on everyone at some point. Warranty work was done by the dealers.

[flybouy]

I think there are basically 2 types of people when it comes to home and RV ownership. Those that are handy, have tools, and are able to logically figure out and effect repairs.
. Those that don't have the tools, skills and desire to do their own repairs should rent their residence and rent a cabin if they want to commiserate with nature.
JMHO

[Ken / Claudia]

I agree with the last post and even told my sister in law the same thing several years ago. She purchased a home 15 years ago, but would not learn to to fix anything. We visit 2-3 times a year. I take lots of tools and spend hours fixing stuff she will not learn nor take time to fix. I did not mind except some of the safety things that she would let go. She phoned once her HW tank was leaking, I am 3 hours away. I had to talk her through turning the water intake valve off. She sold the house last summer and lives in an apartment and is happier. She even admitted that to us at the last visit. Having the landlord fix stuff is her way to go.

[StevyG]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I think there are basically 2 types of people when it comes to home and RV ownership. Those that are handy, have tools, and are able to logically figure out and effect repairs.
. Those that don't have the tools, skills and desire to do their own repairs should rent their residence and rent a cabin if they want to commiserate with nature.
JMHO

I certainly agree with your post..I am Handy but you buy something brand new.
Is there not a reasonable expectation that things should not be falling apart or defective parts? I call a dealership you have to wait 2 or 3 months!
All i can say is Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

[pdaniel]

Originally Posted by StevyG

I certainly agree with your post..I am Handy but you buy something brand new.
Is there not a reasonable expectation that things should not be falling apart or defective parts? I call a dealership you have to wait 2 or 3 months!
All i can say is Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

I agree, there should be a reasonable expectation of things not falling apart. But, in the absence of we the consumer, demanding a higher level of workmanship, the industry will never change for the better.
As a friend of mine, a proud owner of a brand new Allegro, told me, we, the buyers, are the quality control department.
And lastly, we should not expect to wait for an appointment for warranty work for 2-3 months then have the RV in the shop for another 2-3 months.
But, when the dealers are overwhelmed with warranty repairs due to substandard workmanship, we all pay the price.

[Brantlyj]

You would think that the manufacturers would want to have a little better quality. Considering every single unit will need to have something done warranty wise wouldn’t it be cheaper in the long run to have it done right the first time instead of paying dealers?

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Brantlyj

You would think that the manufacturers would want to have a little better quality. Considering every single unit will need to have something done warranty wise wouldn’t it be cheaper in the long run to have it done right the first time instead of paying dealers?

I personally don't think the manufacturers (or customers) are wanting better quality. Here's why;

I think at one point they may have had a QC dept. or person but as time went on, the push for more units daily kept growing and the clamoring customer base kept growing, they put less and less emphasis on QC. As time progressed they kept pushing quantity as quality kept falling further into the rear view mirror. The more they made, the less quality they provided, the more units the customers bought. I do think they monitored for any drop in sales due to less and less quality but it didn't happen. Customers anymore want something that can be pulled by a Prius, as large as an apt. and costs no more than a can of beans (metaphorically).

With all that going on the dealer IS the QC for the manufacturer. Do they want to do it? Who knows and it varies. If they don't do a PDI then the customers just get what came out; good or bad. If they are a quality dealer they may find tons or nothing. The problem for them is that the manufacturer zipped the RV through the assembly line not caring what went on and expecting the dealer to "fix" it, but, NOW the manufacturer wants to pay reduced rates for repairing a "new" trailer. In their minds they think they just shipped out a perfect product and now "someone" is questioning it (that could be you) and you need to provide a book to prove that the unit they shoved out the door, with zero oversight, no QC....nothing, wasn't perfect; when most are far from it. And here we are. But, outside, in the parking lot, the crowds get ever larger, the clamoring gets ever louder and the units roll out of the dealership faster and faster. Do we think that scenario is going to make them want to change their business model? Nah.

[pdaniel]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I personally don't think the manufacturers (or customers) are wanting better quality. Here's why;

I think at one point they may have had a QC dept. or person but as time went on, the push for more units daily kept growing and the clamoring customer base kept growing, they put less and less emphasis on QC. As time progressed they kept pushing quantity as quality kept falling further into the rear view mirror. The more they made, the less quality they provided, the more units the customers bought. I do think they monitored for any drop in sales due to less and less quality but it didn't happen. Customers anymore want something that can be pulled by a Prius, as large as an apt. and costs no more than a can of beans (metaphorically).

With all that going on the dealer IS the QC for the manufacturer. Do they want to do it? Who knows and it varies. If they don't do a PDI then the customers just get what came out; good or bad. If they are a quality dealer they may find tons or nothing. The problem for them is that the manufacturer zipped the RV through the assembly line not caring what went on and expecting the dealer to "fix" it, but, NOW the manufacturer wants to pay reduced rates for repairing a "new" trailer. In their minds they think they just shipped out a perfect product and now "someone" is questioning it (that could be you) and you need to provide a book to prove that the unit they shoved out the door, with zero oversight, no QC....nothing, wasn't perfect; when most are far from it. And here we are. But, outside, in the parking lot, the crowds get ever larger, the clamoring gets ever louder and the units roll out of the dealership faster and faster. Do we think that scenario is going to make them want to change their business model? Nah.

I have owned a Keystone product until March of this year and jumped ship for another manufacturer. And I can relate to the problems the initiator of the posting is experiencing.
And yes, good quality control would be a start-a good process oriented manufacturing program, a good quality program, if you have been in manufacturing I would suggest an ISO9000 system. However, we would not be able to afford the RVs as those costs would be high for a product that is cobbled together with, in my humble opinion, insufficient drawings and instructions, pump them out the door as quickly as possible and let the dealer, and us, deal with the aftermath.
Virtually every towable manufacturer relies on the RVIA as their guide (whatever that is worth) and all assemble their RVs using the same vendor-supplied items and techniques.

However, I have found one towable manufacturer based out of Kansas who builds to order, one at a time. And the price reflects that attention. And it is a price I cannot afford, thus, my Grand Design fifth wheel.

We shopped around and gave Keystone the benefit of the doubt in hoping there was improvement in quality from 2017 models to 2019. Nope. We looked at both the Cougar and Montana line. In looking the Montana appeared to be a rebadged Cougar with a few more shiny baubles.

Is my Solitude much better? Maybe, maybe not. But, I haven't needed warranty work in the 8 months of ownership as I did with my 2017 Cougar.

So, they all have their workmanship and quality issues.

[RWRiley]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I personally don't think the manufacturers (or customers) are wanting better quality.

I agree Manufactures don't want better quality, and They will not improve until people quit buying their stuff or somebody starts holding their feet to the fire.

Customers DO want better quality. They want good quality at a reasonable price. As much as we pay for these things they could be much better.

I'm on camper #6, and the only reason I put with the horrible product they turn out is because I like camping so much.

To the OP - I wish there were lemon laws on RVs, just like Autos. Your surprise at poor quality is shared by a lot of 1st time RV owners. I have seen it on this forum and others from when I owned different brands. Your thoughts are very much justified.

[wiredgeorge]

I am throwing the yellow flag! 15 yards for piling on. Bet the OP doesn't feel the love as the sympathy was kind of thin bwhahaha AND he hasn't returned for four days. All hail Thor, the Norse god of blunder!

[notanlines]

Y’all should be ashamed for treating a newby this way. Imagine, telling the truth to someone wanting sympathy.

[JRTJH]

Tough Love ???? Maybe a "Warm Welcome to the REAL WORLD" ??? How about the possibility of, "A couple of minutes on this or any other forum would have shown you what you're getting into with ANY RV.... BEFORE you bought."

Co-incidentally, the OP joined the forum, made the initial post (his only one) at 3:27 on 10/25/19. He then immediately signed off and has not returned.

Would the OP be a concerned RV'er looking for answers and/or assistance?? or possibly a SNIPER looking to "take a cheap, easy shot then "RUN for the hills" ????

I'd suppose the conclusion is up to each person who spends any time on this thread.....

[RVbuying]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Tough Love ???? Maybe a "Warm Welcome to the REAL WORLD" ??? How about the possibility of, "A couple of minutes on this or any other forum would have shown you what you're getting into with ANY RV.... BEFORE you bought."

Co-incidentally, the OP joined the forum, made the initial post (his only one) at 3:27 on 10/25/19. He then immediately signed off and has not returned.

Would the OP be a concerned RV'er looking for answers and/or assistance?? or possibly a SNIPER looking to "take a cheap, easy shot then "RUN for the hills" ????

I'd suppose the conclusion is up to each person who spends any time on this thread.....

. He’s back! I googled keystone rv warranty and repair or similar and this occupied the first 10 choices on google. If there was an all complaint forum or keystone complaint forum that they read, of course I would post there. But nope, it’s here for potential buyers, who want to read about this brand to see. So they know it’s not a plug and play. It’s possibly a nightmare. Today, I found Sinks are leaking floor is damaged in kitchen island and bathroom. Now I’ve only checked the kitchen island floor 4 times randomly since October purchase when the rig was in my possession so I haven’t looked daily. Just thought a future person should know. Am I gonna rip up the floors and replace along with change the sink? You Guessed right...hell no im going to work and earn money. I’m not a mechanic handy man and won’t be with an rv under warranty. See ya back in 6 weeks with another issue!

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by RVbuying

If there was an all complaint forum or keystone complaint forum that they read, of course I would post there. But nope, it’s here for potential buyers, who want to read about this brand to see. So they know it’s not a plug and play. It’s possibly a nightmare.

Just curious: if you didn't come to this forum to research before you bought your rig, what makes you think the average buyer will? And if you did, how did you leave with the impression that RVs are plug and play?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RVbuying

. He’s back! I googled keystone rv warranty and repair or similar and this occupied the first 10 choices on google. If there was an all complaint forum or keystone complaint forum that they read, of course I would post there. But nope, it’s here for potential buyers, who want to read about this brand to see. So they know it’s not a plug and play. It’s possibly a nightmare. Today, I found Sinks are leaking floor is damaged in kitchen island and bathroom. Now I’ve only checked the kitchen island floor 4 times randomly since October purchase when the rig was in my possession so I haven’t looked daily. Just thought a future person should know. Am I gonna rip up the floors and replace along with change the sink? You Guessed right...hell no im going to work and earn money. I’m not a mechanic handy man and won’t be with an rv under warranty. See ya back in 6 weeks with another issue!

RVbuying,

If your reason for posting here is only to accomplish the last sentence in your post, then you are violating the forum rules. Please review the rules before posting further complaints.

Here's one:
Customer Disputes
This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to solely vent frustrations about services, products, vendors, or sales. Please settle your differences with the seller, provider, manufacturer, or dealer through other means but not through our community.

[LewisB]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

RVbuying,

If your reason for posting here is only to accomplish the last sentence in your post, then you are violating the forum rules. Please review the rules before posting further complaints.

Here's one:
Customer Disputes
This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to solely vent frustrations about services, products, vendors, or sales. Please settle your differences with the seller, provider, manufacturer, or dealer through other means but not through our community.

Best post this thread to date!
Thanks John!