Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Travel Trailers
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-07-2023, 07:47 AM   #21
Kzneft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: West Jordan
Posts: 180
You can do what I do. When I use my inverter, and not on shore power, I run the 120v wire from the inverter to the shore power outlet on my RV. It will power everything in my RV except the AC. Yes, the microwave draws lots of power, but we usually only use it for 5 to 10 minutes.
Kzneft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2023, 09:45 AM   #22
RacerX
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kzneft View Post
You can do what I do. When I use my inverter, and not on shore power, I run the 120v wire from the inverter to the shore power outlet on my RV. It will power everything in my RV except the AC. Yes, the microwave draws lots of power, but we usually only use it for 5 to 10 minutes.
That works, but hopefully, you remember to turn off your converter so that you’re not caught in the loop of inverter, powering the converter, which charges the batteries, which then power the inverter….which powers the converter…..Eg using the inverter to charge the batteries it is using .

I prefer just moving the microwave to an inverted circuit when needed, but your method does power all the other circuits as well which could have benefits…..again if managed carefully.

Besides, just as an afterthought going outside to plug the rig into the inverter would require I put on pants! 😱
__________________
2022 Keystone Cougar Half Ton 32RLI with Solarflex 400i
RacerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2023, 02:52 PM   #23
HeadHam
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Location: Delavan WI
Posts: 33
Remember the TV show "Green Acres"? They were running off a limited power supply and had to assign numbers to the different appliances so the total wouldn't add up to over a 10. That's the type of power management that's needed.
__________________

Rich & Marilyn
2018 Ram 2500 with 6.7 Cummins Diesel
2023 Keystone Cougar 29RLI 5th wheel
Curt 16E hitch
HeadHam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2023, 03:19 AM   #24
Stangfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: East Selkirk, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kzneft View Post
You can do what I do. When I use my inverter, and not on shore power, I run the 120v wire from the inverter to the shore power outlet on my RV. It will power everything in my RV except the AC. Yes, the microwave draws lots of power, but we usually only use it for 5 to 10 minutes.
Like mentioned, that's not a good thing to do unless it's only for a few minutes or you turn the converter off.
__________________
2013 Keystone Hideout 31 BHS
Off grid permanent camp.
East Selkirk, Manitoba, Canada.
Stangfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2023, 05:03 AM   #25
TXiceman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Bryan
Posts: 217
Most (and I do not mean all) people are smart enough to learn how to figure loads and limit power draw as needed. We often were in a 30-amp site with our 50-amp 5th wheel. It is easy enough to learn what will and will not operate. We also had solar and a 3000Watt inverter. The inverter was connected to all wall plugs, residential refrigerator and microwave.

I do not like the manufacturer telling me how I can and cannot use my RV. A lot of the RV instructions are written to keep lawyers happy.

Ken
__________________
2023 Cougar, 2022 F150 EcoBoost tow max Lariat 4x4 Off Road. Former full-time RVer
TXiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2023, 05:23 AM   #26
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
Most (and I do not mean all) people are smart enough to learn how to figure loads and limit power draw as needed. We often were in a 30-amp site with our 50-amp 5th wheel. It is easy enough to learn what will and will not operate. We also had solar and a 3000Watt inverter. The inverter was connected to all wall plugs, residential refrigerator and microwave.

I do not like the manufacturer telling me how I can and cannot use my RV. A lot of the RV instructions are written to keep lawyers happy.

Ken
A lot of the cause for the " lawyering up" is the folks that DON'T have the understanding about the how or why and only interpret the reading as "It's OK to run everything". The manufacturers are not telling YOU how to operate your RV but are warning those that don't know in order to protect them and the manufacturer from litigation.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2023, 05:37 AM   #27
TXiceman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Bryan
Posts: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
A lot of the cause for the " lawyering up" is the folks that DON'T have the understanding about the how or why and only interpret the reading as "It's OK to run everything". The manufacturers are not telling YOU how to operate your RV but are warning those that don't know in order to protect them and the manufacturer from litigation.
I still say ....Remove all warning labels and let natural selection run its course. We need to think herd.

Ken
TXiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2023, 06:23 AM   #28
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
I still say ....Remove all warning labels and let natural selection run its course. We need to think herd.

Ken
That's a great mantra for cattle and sheep. Personally, I'll gladly tolerate some labels if it saves the life of one potential doctor that may find a cure for cancer but doesn't know how to manage the electrical load in an RV. I just view managing what warning labels to consider part of the common sense that assists me in figuring out how to manage the RV systems. JMHO
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2023, 06:49 AM   #29
Kzneft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: West Jordan
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
That works, but hopefully, you remember to turn off your converter so that you’re not caught in the loop of inverter, powering the converter, which charges the batteries, which then power the inverter….which powers the converter…..Eg using the inverter to charge the batteries it is using .

I prefer just moving the microwave to an inverted circuit when needed, but your method does power all the other circuits as well which could have benefits…..again if managed carefully.

Besides, just as an afterthought going outside to plug the rig into the inverter would require I put on pants! 😱
I figured this was easier than running a whole different line into the fuse box. My configuration does not charge the batteries when on shore power. It only charges the batteries by the generator or by my solar panels, so by going from my inverter directly to the shore power input I get everything I need.
Kzneft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2023, 09:39 AM   #30
SolarGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 2
Was curious what the math looks like in this example?
If your microwave uses 1350 watts and you run it for 5 minutes. 5/60 = .083 hours. 1350 watts x .083 hours = 112 watt-hours. If you have two LFP 100Ah batteries which is 200Ah x 12 volts = 2,400 watt-hours of stored energy. Each time you ran the microwave for 5 minutes you will use about 112 watt-hours. It looks like you could manage to use the microwave so long as you watch the energy use with your Victron shunt.
SolarGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2023, 09:45 AM   #31
Kzneft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: West Jordan
Posts: 180
One thing to mention. On my first inverter (3000 watt) it was powering up the microwave, but the microwave would never heat the food. I checked the voltage at the microwave and was only getting about 90 volts. After lots of testing it was found out the inverter was faulty. After I replaced the inverter I was getting 120v and all works well not. Might want to check your voltage.
Kzneft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2023, 09:51 AM   #32
Kzneft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: West Jordan
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangfire View Post
Like mentioned, that's not a good thing to do unless it's only for a few minutes or you turn the converter off.
I always turn the inverter off when using the generator just to make sure.
Kzneft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2023, 10:39 AM   #33
WJQ
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Heber City
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolarGuy View Post
Was curious what the math looks like in this example?
If your microwave uses 1350 watts and you run it for 5 minutes. 5/60 = .083 hours. 1350 watts x .083 hours = 112 watt-hours. If you have two LFP 100Ah batteries which is 200Ah x 12 volts = 2,400 watt-hours of stored energy. Each time you ran the microwave for 5 minutes you will use about 112 watt-hours. It looks like you could manage to use the microwave so long as you watch the energy use with your Victron shunt.
What your mom didn't tell you and my mom didn't tell me is that microwaves have a startup power demand several times (3X to 4X) the nameplate capacity. Your math is correct after the microwave starts. Getting it started is where the problem lies. I sized my equipment for steady, nameplate operation. I only learned about startup power demand after I bought and installed everything. The high peak power results in voltage drop out of a lead acid battery, through the wiring to the inverter, and then the inverter does not like too of a high peak power either (My 2000 Watt inverter is rated for 2X peak for a few milliseconds.).

Lithium batteries supply peak power much better than lead-acid batteries. Anyway, nameplate demand is not the design point. I can operate now but only marginally as I believe my inverter peak power is still the limitation. Maybe Santa or the tooth fairy will bring me a new inverter.
__________________
Bill & Cathe
2018 Cougar 24 SABWE
2015 Dodge Ram 1500
Heber City, UTAH
Living the Dream at 6300 Feet!
WJQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2023, 12:08 PM   #34
SolarGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 2
Regarding start microwave power needs

Hi,
I am aware that some devices have start up power needs...but have not seen how much is needed for a microwave. Good info to know. Thankfully LFP batteries have a relatively flat discharge curve and do not experience as much voltage sag as lead acid batteries. I am personally hoping to get Victron Multiplus II which would provide 3,000 VA.

May Santa have a pleasant gift under the tree that helps lots of electrons power your AC devices
SolarGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2023, 09:30 PM   #35
MrKABC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Corona
Posts: 108
I just installed a Victron Multiplus 3000w inverter/charger in my trailer. I removed the stock charger out of the WFCO and the Multiplus now serves as inverter, charger, and transfer switch.

With three Battle Born GC2 100AH batteries, the inverter did run my microwave, but I can see it wouldn't be for long! My shunt reported battery voltage drop to 12.1x v, generating red undervolt warnings on the inverter control panel. The "battery time remaining" went from days to hours in the Victron app as well. The good news is the microwave worked great and the warnings cleared out as soon as the microwave shut down.

I now have a fourth BB battery and will be installing it this weekend. Hopefully with 400AH on tap now I'll be able to run the microwave without issue. We'll see!
__________________
2022 Springdale 202QBWE.
Mods: 800w Solar, Victron Multiplus 3000 inverter, Victron 100/50 MPPT, Battle Born GC2 LiPo (x5), FOS07TASF Furrion backup camera, RVLock v4, Mopeka PRO (x2) LPG tank sensors, TireMinder i10 TPMS, Micro Air 364 soft start capacitor, Garnet See Level 709P3W1003 tank monitor system, RVLovent 14" Roof Fan.
Coming attractions: None at the moment.
MrKABC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2023, 05:23 PM   #36
Stircrazy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangfire View Post
lol do you know how much power a Microwave uses? You would need a HUGE battery bank to support it. Not feasible.

If you want to run the Microwave or AC when boon docking get a generator.
I agree with Ken 100%, with 400 watts of solar, a 2000-watt inverter and 200usable AH of LiFePO4 batteries there is no reason not to have the inverter feed the microwave.

I built my own system with 480 watts of solar, 2000watt inverter and four 6V batteries and I use my microwave all the time for heating up something quick and warming the grand kids' bottles.

A microwave can be considered a high draw, but you use it for short periods and as long as your use is like that, it won't be an issue. Air conditioning, I totally agree with it is a very high draw that would need to run at least a few hours to make a difference, so it isn't feasible for the average person.

we need to get over this "get a generator attitude" with the normalization of LiFePo4 batteries and the low price of solar components we see now days, there is no reason to have a generator anymore aside from air conditioning, and only because of the pure volume of batteries and solar panels it would need to be self-sufficient. take the battery issue alone, I have four 6V GC batteries which are about 220AH each so that is 440AH at 12V which in reality is 220 usable AH if you want your batteries to last any length of time.
Having two 100AH LifePo4 batteries actually gives me the same amount of usable energy in theory, but in reality, it's more. LiFePo4, do not have the same voltage sag under load that led acid has so when using higher loads with the inverter you can use more AH before your inverter starts giving you a low voltage alarm. They also accept a charge, faster, because of the lower internal resistance meaning less charging energy is converted to heat and more goes directly to topping up the battery so your solar becomes a slight bit more efficient.
__________________
2014 F350 Platinum
2016 Cougar RBK330
1991 Slumber queen 100WS
Stircrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2023, 06:43 AM   #37
Stangfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: East Selkirk, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stircrazy View Post
I agree with Ken 100%, with 400 watts of solar, a 2000-watt inverter and 200usable AH of LiFePO4 batteries there is no reason not to have the inverter feed the microwave.

I built my own system with 480 watts of solar, 2000watt inverter and four 6V batteries and I use my microwave all the time for heating up something quick and warming the grand kids' bottles.

A microwave can be considered a high draw, but you use it for short periods and as long as your use is like that, it won't be an issue. Air conditioning, I totally agree with it is a very high draw that would need to run at least a few hours to make a difference, so it isn't feasible for the average person.

we need to get over this "get a generator attitude" with the normalization of LiFePo4 batteries and the low price of solar components we see now days, there is no reason to have a generator anymore aside from air conditioning, and only because of the pure volume of batteries and solar panels it would need to be self-sufficient. take the battery issue alone, I have four 6V GC batteries which are about 220AH each so that is 440AH at 12V which in reality is 220 usable AH if you want your batteries to last any length of time.
Having two 100AH LifePo4 batteries actually gives me the same amount of usable energy in theory, but in reality, it's more. LiFePo4, do not have the same voltage sag under load that led acid has so when using higher loads with the inverter you can use more AH before your inverter starts giving you a low voltage alarm. They also accept a charge, faster, because of the lower internal resistance meaning less charging energy is converted to heat and more goes directly to topping up the battery so your solar becomes a slight bit more efficient.
Yes, I’m sure with 4 good batteries you could run the microwave sparingly. Assuming you have a good solar setup to replenish them in the time needed. I don’t think most people have 4 batteries.

I have (2)6V GC batteries with 200W solar. 1500w inverter for TV’s/dvd’s charge vacuum, etc. It powers everything I need (water pump) minus microwave and AC. I even bring my slide in and out each weekend. My permanent camp is off grid and I have never depleted the batteries. The longest I have stayed out is 4 days but the batteries are replenished each day with only 200W of solar. It is nice how far this technology has come and I love being off grid/self sufficient and still living like most do.

That being said when it’s +35c outside I need AC. So I own a generator mostly for that. The way my family cooks and eats at camp I rarely feel the need for a microwave. All our cooking is on the BBQ or fire.
__________________
2013 Keystone Hideout 31 BHS
Off grid permanent camp.
East Selkirk, Manitoba, Canada.
Stangfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2023, 07:29 AM   #38
Stircrazy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangfire View Post
That being said when it’s +35c outside I need AC. So I own a generator mostly for that. The way my family cooks and eats at camp I rarely feel the need for a microwave. All our cooking is on the BBQ or fire.
It gets into the low 40C here in the summer, but I just have to climb out of the valley, and it drops 8 degrees fast, then go higher up in the mountains and it may be 35C but after supper it cools off fast. Having a generator here for your AC doesn't do much as in 99% of the parks (government or private) you are only allowed to run them between 8am and 10am and then again from 5pm to 7. (Some places allow an extra hour here and there) it seems like they are making the run times shorter and shorter.

I got four 6V batteries when I was on the island, solar was a pipe dream back then, a good genny was 3000.00 and you had to haul more fuel for it, and I had two young kids. Plus, even in the summer you would be using the furnace if it was a rainy day, or even at night when it cooled off. So, with 4 batteries I could go camping for a week easily in those conditions. Now the microwave is a simple way to warm up a bottle for the grandkids or to make a bag of popcorn, I don't use it for cooking.
__________________
2014 F350 Platinum
2016 Cougar RBK330
1991 Slumber queen 100WS
Stircrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
inverter

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.