Towing Vehicle Question - '11 Keystone Passport 2590BH

[Jean]

We're racking our heads with towing vehicles...we currently own a 2011 Keystone Passport 2590BH travel trailer. I see someone else here owns one and I'm hoping he chimes in. We are looking at replacing our VERY OLD Ford truck that we currently tow this with...very short distances...for a newer F150.

My question for the senior member with our exact trailer...how well does your F150 tow this trailer? A little about us...I do NOT overload our trailer. This is our 2nd summer and I actually took stuff out of it from last year. We are a family of 4 plus one huge dog. We'd like to get something with the Ecoboost for normal driving. We only camp about 6-8 times a summer, we're in MN so we're limited on our camping time...our FURTHEST we'd ever drive to camp is maybe 100 miles. We usually travel about 30 on average to our favorite places but we'd like to get a nicer truck so we can go a bit further to some nicer places and get out of Dodge...so maybe 200 max miles. Plus I have to follow DH in my vehicle as the truck is a single cab...Our children are young, 2 and 7. We'd like to get a crew cab but we're torn on the F150 vs F250 debate...you know the weights of this camper already so I'd like your imput. Basically I toss in some groceries, bedding is in there, a few toys for the kids, your usual setup stuff DH takes care of...a few gallons of water but that's it...throw some wood in the bed of the truck...bean bag boxes etc...115 lb dog in his crate if we can't find a sitter . We just can't justify the cost of an F250 because fuel is more, maintenance is a LOT more...and it's just not something we'd want to use for daily use. We'd like to use this as a family vehicle too if it gets okay mileage...hence the Ecoboost...I'd like a Lariat as well. DH thinks an F150 will be just fine considering what we pull it with now. I'd almost consider DOWNGRADING our camper to avoid paying more for a truck we won't get the use out of...I really don't want to go shopping in a Diesel...ha ha! You know what I mean. Neither of us have to commute for work but if we pay a lot for a nice F150 I want to use it other than camping...we also have an Equilizer weight Dist Hitch setup already...

[Festus2]

First, to our forum. Secondly, I'm certain you'll get lots of suggestions and advice from our members as we have discussed this same question -- "What is the best tow vehicle to tow "X" trailer?" many, many times before. I will, however, make a couple of comments.
For me, the most important thing to think about is safe towing. It matters not how far it is from your home to your destination. Am I going to get there safely and not endanger the lives of my family and others? You can be just as unsafe driving 30 miles as you can driving 300. Also, it doesn't really matter how often you go camping - twice a year or ten times. Am I going to be safe each and every time I go? I don't think you should put too much emphasis on the distance you drive or how often you go camping when choosing a TV.

Additionally, I think if you weighed everything- all that "stuff" - including the "etc's" that you throw in, you may be surprised at just how much it all weighs.

I'll leave others to chime in on your question and hopefully the member who has the identical TT will respond. If not, try sending him/her a PM.

[Jean]

You're right. That's why I'm here. I want to know what we can haul it with safely. Our current setup I won't let anyone ride in the truck. We just follow. If push comes to ahove we will go with a 250. I'm just curious how well he's managing with our same setup. I tried to convince DH to get a smaller camper but he won't budge. We've found a f
ew good deals on F250s but then you hear the stories about this engine is bad or avoid these years blah blah blah...makes me want to get an RV lol!

DH is a very experienced hauler as well. Not much scares him! He has been driving semi, snow plows, you name it in all conditions for years so the experience is there. He's driven just about everything from total junk to new. Just want opinions from people with similar setups and what they think.

[WYO 85]

I pull a Passport 2850RL with a 2011 F150 ECO Screw with max tow, trailer is about 6800 # loaded power wise the Ford hardly knows its back there. And I live at 6200 feet and any time I go camping its up hill to 8500 to 9500 feet. I can come up the Summit by Laramie 65 MPH and 2800 RPM's. Drove to Iowa this summer (didn't tow) 75 to 80MPH all the way , got 18.5 overall MPG.

[OhhWell]

I'm sorry I don't pull that camper with an F-150 so I can't give you first hand knoledge and I know that's what you are looking for but I still want to get on a small soapbox heheh.

The last thing I would make the upgrade for would be towing MPG. The Ecoboost F-150 is NOT a cheap truck. The unloaded MPG is great if you don't stomp the gas but the numbers when towing are pretty close to us gassers with larger non-turbo engines.

The reasons why I would be upgrading in your situation would be for the Crew Cab, stability and maybe reliability.

Some of your post almost sounded like you were equating an F-250 with Diesel. Your trailer is definately in the range for "HalfTon Towable" with a properly equiped half ton but pretty much all F-250s will be properly equiped.

If it were me and looking at Fords, I would be looking for a gently used Crew Cab longbed either F-250 or F-350 with the V10 gas engine. The price and interior options would narrow the search down after that. If you save enough under what you budgeted to spend on a new ecoboost, you can purchase an extended warranty on the new truck.

[Jean]

Well you took the words right out of my mouth...we talked to someone who knows a lot about the Ford diesels and he said in our sitation, our best bet would be to buy a used F250 V10 instead of a diesel. It will save us money in the long run per say and we won't have to worry about the high cost maintenance. The savings will go in the gas tank I guess. You can't have the best of both worlds I guess...but this isn't our daily driving vehicle either. Our old truck sits in the driveway most of the time until we go camping or we get 8 feet of snow...and we're used to getting 5 mpg in our old truck so this may be better .

Is there anything we should look for specifically? I keep reading about gear ratio...do we need to worry about this with the F250? I found one with 85,000 miles, crew cab, Lariat, $20K. It's a 2005...It's green, not my favorite choice but it's in our price range. I checked out the Ecoboost and they're WAY out of our range for what we want to spend on this hobby of ours...

[JeffS]

I don't know much about the V10 but remember a review of it a number of years ago. The reviewing magazine indicated that they averaged 10mpg pulling a 7000# trailer - then unhooked the trailer and got 10mpg. However, if you currently get 5mpg a 100% improvement will be nice.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by JeffS

I don't know much about the V10 but remember a review of it a number of years ago. The reviewing magazine indicated that they averaged 10mpg pulling a 7000# trailer - then unhooked the trailer and got 10mpg. However, if you currently get 5mpg a 100% improvement will be nice.

Well we have an old Ford truck with a 390 in it and yes, we probably get a few mpg pulling our camper! It sucks...and I have to follow in my vehicle so double the gas...

This truck I found has a 3:73 rear axle ration...is this good or bad for towing?

[Jean]

Oh crud...this is a 5.4L. Nevermind! I wish they'd list the specs instead of me having to ask.

[OhhWell]

Originally Posted by Jean

Oh crud...this is a 5.4L. Nevermind! I wish they'd list the specs instead of me having to ask.

lol, you think that's bad, try finding the axle ratios on Expeditions.

For a V-10 powered ford, I would say that a 3.73:1 axle ratio would be perfect, especially with your trailer. If you were ever going to pull something a bit bigger and or over mountains, I would recomend looking for one with the 4.10:1 axle ratio.

You will probably get between 8-10 mpg.

Keep looking, there are tons of V-10 Fords out there. Don't limit your search to F-250. There are plenty of SRW F-350s out there as well. DRW is not needed at all for your trailer and will decrease your fuel efficiency some. Having said that though, if you found a nice one in good shape for a good price, I wouldn't let the dual rear wheels scare me off, especially if the truck only pulls the camper like ours does.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by OhhWell

lol, you think that's bad, try finding the axle ratios on Expeditions.

For a V-10 powered ford, I would say that a 3.73:1 axle ratio would be perfect, especially with your trailer. If you were ever going to pull something a bit bigger and or over mountains, I would recomend looking for one with the 4.10:1 axle ratio.

You will probably get between 8-10 mpg.

Keep looking, there are tons of V-10 Fords out there. Don't limit your search to F-250. There are plenty of SRW F-350s out there as well. DRW is not needed at all for your trailer and will decrease your fuel efficiency some. Having said that though, if you found a nice one in good shape for a good price, I wouldn't let the dual rear wheels scare me off, especially if the truck only pulls the camper like ours does.

We are in the valley and do have to take some steep hills to get out but they're quick and then you're out and he managed with our old Ford...to the floor and in 3rd, sometimes 2nd...but he gets there. LOL! But not planning a trip to the rockies or anything like that. If we lived somewhere we could camp year round, we'd spend the money on a diesel but I can't justify this only going a half dozen times and there may be summers it could be less as the kids get older...you know how that all goes...I suggested just getting a seasonal and forget the truck! Didn't go over very well We may take it out to the black hills but that's about as far as I'd go. There's a lot of nice campgrounds in MN/WI so we don't have to go far.

[Laredo291OH]

I notice you only talk about the Fords, so you may not be interested.... but I'll give my 2 cents worth anyways. We pull a Laredo 291TG that can weigh up to 8200 lbs. According to the CAT scales, it's usually in the vicinity of 7500. Tried towing with a GMC Yukon and learned that didn't work due to sway. I have now purchased a used GMC 2500HD 4x4 with the 6.0L gas and the 3.73 gears. The truck has the 6 speed transmission and it pulls the camper very well, I just got back from a 2000 mile round trip and averaged 7.4 mpg. This was from Ohio to Florida so I was pulling thru the hills of KY and TN at 65 mph on the interstate. This truck is also my daily driver. On the daily drive (in town and country roads, 5-10 miles at a time) I avg just over 14 mpg. If I get out on the highway I get 17-18. This is no different than the 1500 4x4 GMC truck I had prior with the 5.3L gas and 3.43 gears. I think the 6 speed transmissions have been in GMC and Chevys since about 2008, so you can probably find a truck close to your price range.

[Javi]

I've never really understood why nearly everyone thinks diesels are so much more expensive to maintain.. I have a few 100,000 miles behind the wheel of diesel pickups hauling 10,000 lb work trailers and they weren't that much more expensive... The oil changes and filters are a bit more but the intervals are longer between also.. I guess maybe cause the part are higher if you break something.. but in all them miles I had to spend less than $200 bucks on a broken throttle cable..

After 6 years in a gas rig I'm glad to be back in a diesel again.. 19-20 hwy 15-16 in town and 13.5 – 14 hauling my Passport.. and I paid less for my XL F250 Crew Cab than many pay for a F150

By the way... the 6.7 rocks...

[Jean]

GMC and Dodge are also options. I'm not sure why we're hovering around Ford so much. His dad has a 2010 GMC and we pulled a smaller camper and it was horrible. It was constantly kicking down doing 60 on flat terrain. Don't ask me what engine or anything but it was whatever model is equivilent to the F150 size wise.

Okay so I was looking at towing specs for various years of the F250...most say the V8 model you can tow up to 9700 lbs. So would you still want a V10? Or does the V8 suck? I'd rather be over equipped than under but our max weight for our loaded trailer is only like 7400. This is with the 3:73 gear or whatever. The 4:10 goes up to 12,000 lbs. So would you be better off looking for a V8 with this ratio or sticking with a V10? Man, never thought I'd be having this conversation...goes from teething toddlers to a Ford V10...lol!!!

[Halibutman214]

I don't have first hand knowledge of towing the exact rig you mention but do have a considerable amount of time towing both boats and a toy hauler that weighed in at around 4500 lbs with a 1/2 ton. I can tell you that the difference between the 1/2 and 3/4 ton is day and night. I have to say I'm a bit skeptical of some of the numbers you've been given.
No matter how you slice it a Diesel is the absolute best rig I've ever had to tow with. If a Diesel is not just not an option the V-10 is a strong motor as are some of the V-8's. If you do get a gasser however and your thinking mileage don't expect anything more than 12 mpg on a good day and perhaps less. Just for comparison on my 6774 mile Alaska trip I got 10.3 going up and 11.1 coming back. This was with my 6.7 Diesel. I guess I got more coming back because I was going down hill.

[OhhWell]

Originally Posted by Jean

GMC and Dodge are also options. I'm not sure why we're hovering around Ford so much. His dad has a 2010 GMC and we pulled a smaller camper and it was horrible. It was constantly kicking down doing 60 on flat terrain. Don't ask me what engine or anything but it was whatever model is equivilent to the F150 size wise.

Okay so I was looking at towing specs for various years of the F250...most say the V8 model you can tow up to 9700 lbs. So would you still want a V10? Or does the V8 suck? I'd rather be over equipped than under but our max weight for our loaded trailer is only like 7400. This is with the 3:73 gear or whatever. The 4:10 goes up to 12,000 lbs. So would you be better off looking for a V8 with this ratio or sticking with a V10? Man, never thought I'd be having this conversation...goes from teething toddlers to a Ford V10...lol!!!

Since it is mostly just for towing, I would stay looking at V-10 engines. I'm sure the 5.4 V-8 would perform well with 4.10 gears though.

I've heard nothing but good things about the Chevy 6.0l V-8 in their HD trucks. I know what you mean about the GM 1500 and searching the gears. I drove a 2011 with the 5.3l V-8 and even in haul mode, it shifted around too much for my liking hauling a smal enclosed cargo trailer. It's likely that it was just fine and I should have just let it do its thing but I just couldn't stomach it.

You will likely know when you have found the perfect truck. It's definately out there in the used market. I drove over 20 trucks in our price range before finding ours. I knew we had found the right one about 200 ft into the test drive.

[sagebel]

The 5.4 in a 150 was fine but in a 250/350 is a bit under powered and I don't believe you could get a 5.4 with 4:10 gears. Like mentioned earlier, there is not much difference between a 250 and SRW 350, just an extra leaf spring in the rear on most years models. Nothing wrong with a V-10.

The GMC you towed with was probably kicking down a lot because of the double overdrive. It may kick down but it was probably still in an OD gear.

[Jean]

Just curious, what are you getting with your diesels when you're NOT towing? Thought more about it last night and thought, well if we're still going to fork out a lot for a decent V10 (2006 or newer) then I want to drive this thing more than just for camping and 10 mpg kind of sucks...so we started talking about Diesels again sorry, I'm a woman, I can't make up my mind!

[Festus2]

Jean -

There is an active and current thread on the forum "What is Your MPG?" which can be found in this Towing section. Many members have posted what kind of mileage, towing and not towing, they are getting with their TV's.

Have a look there as it may eliminate the need for members to answer the same question in two different places.

Thanks

[Halibutman214]

Originally Posted by Jean

Just curious, what are you getting with your diesels when you're NOT towing? Thought more about it last night and thought, well if we're still going to fork out a lot for a decent V10 (2006 or newer) then I want to drive this thing more than just for camping and 10 mpg kind of sucks...so we started talking about Diesels again sorry, I'm a woman, I can't make up my mind!

If your looking at diesels, do your research. While I have a Dodge 6.7 cummins I wished for the first year of ownership I had instead went with the 5.9 and in fact sometimes still would prefer it when it comes to mileage. The 5.9 is bulletproof, and gets great mileage both towing and highway. Absent is all of the emission crud they added on the 6.7 and it makes a lot of difference. Your looking at about 14 towing and 19+ highway. If I were in the market for a used Diesel I would seriously consider a 2003-2007.