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Old 12-28-2016, 10:04 PM   #21
gslane1958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Tongue weight will be 800 lbs or so (figure at least 12% of trailer GVW) leaving you 200 lbs of payload. Hitch will be another 100+. Leaving 100 lbs or less. That leaves 100lbs (optimistically) for you, DW, fuel? and all the things you will put in the bed....and you will put things in the bed; so your payload capacity will be exceeded plus your GVW will also probably be exceeded. If max tongue weight for the truck is 640 you will definitely exceed that....and on it goes. All of the above doesn't take into account the terrible towing experience you will have in addition to putting yourself and other in danger.

Bright side!! I'm a Ram guy myself but I just read that Chevy is putting a big sale on their trucks right now so you might pick up a good deal. Tell DW the good news about a new 3/4 ton, take her to dinner and explain all of the wonderful fun you will have when you upgrade to a larger trailer.....I'm sure she won't be able to resist
lol.... yeah, I kinda saw it was going that direction. I've started the negotiation process with her. I'm a Ram guy also, but will take a great deal anywhere I can find it ( except on a Ford ). No disrespect to Fords, just never had any luck with them, so I avoid 'em at all costs now.

Thanks again for the help!!
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:28 AM   #22
gslane1958
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Found this one locally. Seems like a pretty good deal for a 2017 2500...

2017 Ram 2500 Tradesman Truck Crew Cab
Exterior Color : Granite Crystal
Interior Color : DIESEL GRAY/BLACK
Model Code : DJ7L91
Stock # : 16538
VIN : 3C6UR5CJ1HG558950

Packages & Options
Included Packages
Chrome Appearance Group
18" Steel Spare Wheel
Wheels: 18" x 8.0" Steel Chrome Clad
Bright Front Bumper
Bright Grille
Bright Rear Bumper
Tires: LT275/70R18E BSW AS
Radio: Uconnect 5.0
5.0" Touchscreen Display
GPS Antenna Input
Integrated Voice Command w/Bluetooth
Media Hub
Overhead Console
Charge Only Remote USB Port
Temperature & Compass Gauge
SiriusXM Satellite Radio
1-Yr SiriusXM Radio Service
For More Info, Call 800-643-2112
No Satellite Coverage w/AK/HI
Popular Equipment Group
Cloth 40/20/40 Bench Seat
Carpet Floor Covering
Front & Rear Floor Mats
Remote Keyless Entry
SiriusXM Satellite Radio
40/20/40 Split Bench Seat
Rear Folding Seat
1-Yr SiriusXM Radio Service
For More Info, Call 800-643-2112
No Satellite Coverage w/AK/HI
Engine: 6.4L Heavy Duty V8 HEMI w/MDS
11.50 Rear Axle
180 Amp Alternator
Electronically Controlled Throttle
GVWR: 10,000 lbs
Hemi Badge
Next Generation Engine Controller
ParkView Rear Back-Up Camera
Rear View Auto Dim Mirror w/Display
Heavy Duty Snow Plow Prep Group
180 Amp Alternator
Transfer Case Skid Plate Shield
Protection Group
Tow Hooks
Transfer Case Skid Plate Shield
Quick Order Package 22A Tradesman
3.73 Axle Ratio
Front Armrest w/Cupholders
Additional Options
Tires: LT275/70R18E BSW AS
Cloth 40/20/40 Bench Seat
180 Amp Alternator
Popular Equipment Group
Tow Hooks
Integrated Voice Command w/Bluetooth
GPS Antenna Input
Media Hub
Front & Rear Floor Mats
5.0" Touchscreen Display
Next Generation Engine Controller
Charge Only Remote USB Port
Overhead Console
3.73 Axle Ratio
Heavy Duty Snow Plow Prep Group
Chrome Appearance Group
Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle
Hemi Badge
Rear View Auto Dim Mirror w/Display
Bright Rear Bumper
Transmission: 6-Speed Automatic
ParkSense Rear Park Assist System
Engine: 6.4L Heavy Duty V8 HEMI w/MDS
Transfer Case Skid Plate Shield
Remote Keyless Entry
1-Yr SiriusXM Radio Service
Electronically Controlled Throttle
Radio: Uconnect 5.0
Rear Folding Seat
Clearance Lamps
18" Steel Spare Wheel
GVWR: 10,000 lbs
Protection Group
Carpet Floor Covering
Front Armrest w/Cupholders
40/20/40 Split Bench Seat
Trailer Brake Control
For More Info, Call 800-643-2112
Temperature & Compass Gauge
ParkView Rear Back-Up Camera
Quick Order Package 22A Tradesman
Wheels: 18" x 8.0" Steel Chrome Clad
Bright Front Bumper
Spray In Bedliner
No Satellite Coverage w/AK/HI
11.50 Rear Axle
50 State Emissions
SiriusXM Satellite Radio
Bright Grille


$44,805 MSRP

$9,221 Savings

$35,584 Sale Price
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:25 AM   #23
66joej
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Just saw an add for 2017 Ram 2500. Upgrade is Cummins diesel at no extra charge. Canadian TV but I'm sure it's the same deal in the US.
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:28 AM   #24
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That ought to be good for any TT. You will be able to upgrade 2 times to get RV #3 which is where most of us end up.
Cool color too.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:32 AM   #25
gslane1958
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That ought to be good for any TT. You will be able to upgrade 2 times to get RV #3 which is where most of us end up.
Cool color too.
Yup... would be a good long term solution. The only thing I'd change is the gears, but they're hard to find on lots. Everything I've seen so far has the 3.73.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:43 AM   #26
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Yup... would be a good long term solution. The only thing I'd change is the gears, but they're hard to find on lots. Everything I've seen so far has the 3.73.
I was in the same boat gear wise. I've had 4.10, 3.92, 3.73, 3.55 in my Dodge/Ram trucks. You can't beat the 4.10 for towing but for long distance, high speed driving it ate up gas. I really liked the 3.92 but the 3.73 isn't bad (current truck) and I'm pulling 10k lbs. with it (in fact I'm pretty pleased with it).

That looks like a pretty good deal on that truck. If someone is giving away free upgrades to a diesel you might think about that if you want a diesel.
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:51 AM   #27
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Yup... would be a good long term solution. The only thing I'd change is the gears, but they're hard to find on lots. Everything I've seen so far has the 3.73.
With the diameter of today's tires and the overdrive trans gearing, 3.73 gears are probably a great option for a TV.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:10 AM   #28
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With the diameter of today's tires and the overdrive trans gearing, 3.73 gears are probably a great option for a TV.
From what I've read, they're fine for most conditions. Seems the 410's make the steeper grades a whole lot easier though. Being on the east coast, I don't have to worry about too many long, steep grades until I'm lucky enough to do a cross-country trip. If I'm really lucky, I'll be able to upgrade to a diesel for that trip.

I just figured it would be nice to have the extra grunt for hills if I do upgrade to a heavier trailer. I'd like to get a toy hauler so I can combine my hobbies at some point. But that's a few years out.
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:14 PM   #29
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From what I've read, they're fine for most conditions. Seems the 410's make the steeper grades a whole lot easier though. Being on the east coast, I don't have to worry about too many long, steep grades until I'm lucky enough to do a cross-country trip. If I'm really lucky, I'll be able to upgrade to a diesel for that trip.

I just figured it would be nice to have the extra grunt for hills if I do upgrade to a heavier trailer. I'd like to get a toy hauler so I can combine my hobbies at some point. But that's a few years out.
In that case you need to be looking at a diesel, and maybe a 1 ton, or you're gonna be in the same boat you're in at the present.
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:18 PM   #30
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If you are considering a Toy hauler then you will be wise to look at a 1 ton TV if you think you are going with the BIG DADDYS.
I have a 3/4 ton TV and a 31 ft Carbon TH when loaded it is about 11k. Everyone will tell you about the driving experience and safety when towing but I have had my fair share of white knuckle trips and while you think you can control the situations while driving you will quickly find out how dangerous it becomes.
I moved from a 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton and it was night and day, but I can still misload the weight on the TH and have a dreadful drive. All this said you must use good sense and purchase a TV large enough to handle these rolling boxes. Wind and speed will beat you down and make any travel a miserable trip.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:46 PM   #31
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I had 3 2500 Dodge Diesels and my current truck is a 3500 single rear wheel. The difference in price is a few hundred dollars but the peace of mind is worth much more than that. Love my truck. I have large margins on all the numbers and I tow a 37 foot toy hauler with a Honda Goldwing bike in the back.

Set the cruise on 75 MPH and enjoy the drive.

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Old 12-29-2016, 06:21 PM   #32
gslane1958
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In that case you need to be looking at a diesel, and maybe a 1 ton, or you're gonna be in the same boat you're in at the present.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary31 View Post
If you are considering a Toy hauler then you will be wise to look at a 1 ton TV if you think you are going with the BIG DADDYS.
I have a 3/4 ton TV and a 31 ft Carbon TH when loaded it is about 11k. Everyone will tell you about the driving experience and safety when towing but I have had my fair share of white knuckle trips and while you think you can control the situations while driving you will quickly find out how dangerous it becomes.
I moved from a 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton and it was night and day, but I can still misload the weight on the TH and have a dreadful drive. All this said you must use good sense and purchase a TV large enough to handle these rolling boxes. Wind and speed will beat you down and make any travel a miserable trip.
I thought about going with diesel, but it just isn't in the budget right now. A few years back we had a small TH ( ~25 ft & loaded with a Road King ). Towed it behind my 2007 Ram 2500 Hemi. We were all over the east coast from the Smokies to Acadia NP and never had any issues. It was a very stable setup and just enough power. My plan would be to get one a little bigger, but not much.

Based on my previous experience, I figured the 6.4 would do pretty well. I will admit though, this plan could be completely invalid as I haven't really looked a TH's lately. I don't know if something in the 28 - 30 ft range would have everything I need. Nor do I know what something like that would weigh fully loaded. Based on your post Gary ( 31 ft loaded = 11k ), I'm guessing it might come in just under 10k.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:53 PM   #33
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I thought about going with diesel, but it just isn't in the budget right now. A few years back we had a small TH ( ~25 ft & loaded with a Road King ). Towed it behind my 2007 Ram 2500 Hemi. We were all over the east coast from the Smokies to Acadia NP and never had any issues. It was a very stable setup and just enough power. My plan would be to get one a little bigger, but not much.

Based on my previous experience, I figured the 6.4 would do pretty well. I will admit though, this plan could be completely invalid as I haven't really looked a TH's lately. I don't know if something in the 28 - 30 ft range would have everything I need. Nor do I know what something like that would weigh fully loaded. Based on your post Gary ( 31 ft loaded = 11k ), I'm guessing it might come in just under 10k.

In my mind you need to have some idea of how big you would eventually go in weight. If not you probably need to get a Kenworth.

As I've said, I tow a 10k trailer with the 6.4/3.73 with no issues; TX to FL, TX to S TX, TX to/thru the Rockies, TX to ??. The 6.4 is not like a diesel and it will want to spin to get through steep grades (6-7%) but it makes them just fine.

On the other hand, my mindset, and opinion, is that if you tow, or want to tow, anything over 10k you need to get a diesel; that's based on lots (many thousands) of miles towing with a gas truck. 5th wheels and toy haulers of any size need to be 1 ton diesels....IMO.
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Old 12-30-2016, 03:04 AM   #34
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I REALLY like the idea of a nice late model KW or Peterbilt, maybe a black single screw Volvo......ah, but I digress.
I concur with everything that has been said so far. We all also have a pretty good idea of your finances; been there, done that. You have to do the best you can for yourself and your family. Most of us would like to back up our New Volvo to our 43 foot Raptor, absolutely loaded with new toys. However, being realistic, buy and pull what you can afford. If you don't mind a little more work and time, shop for a relatively late model 3/4 ton or one ton diesel.
Then you've got the best of both worlds.
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Old 12-30-2016, 04:21 AM   #35
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Hmmm... a Kenworth...

Not sure I could afford the payments after the divorce.
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Old 12-30-2016, 06:07 AM   #36
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Diesels are definitely the preferred TV when you get up north of the 10k lb range. Actually I really like the smooth towing on lighter trailers as well. It's nice to watch my boost gauge and see the turbo work, but the truck doesn't down shift and just cruises along smoothly when going over hills. The tranny temps on the Allison have never topped 190 even on long 10 mile, steep grades out west. It typically runs around 170-175 when towing. The exhaust brake is another amazing feature that is nice when you top those grades and start down the other side.
There are many slightly used diesels out there in the 35k range. By slightly used when it comes to a diesel, I consider anything under 75k slightly used. Keep in mind that the powertrain warranty on them is typically 5 yrs/100k miles. I can't speak for Ford and Dodge, but I know the powertrain warranty on a Duramax includes the exhaust system since the DPF and regen system is considered part of the engine (I had to have an exhaust Nox sensor changed at 50k and it was part of the 100k mile diesel system warranty). I have 145k on my Duramax/Allison combo and have no fear hooking up to our 15k lb 5er and heading cross country. I don't know that I would be that confident with a gas truck and standard transmission with those miles.
My advice: if you want to step up to a TH someday, take the time now and do some shopping. Get a good idea what you want in the future and then get the right truck for it now. You don't want to buy a new truck and be in the same situation you're in now a few years down the road.
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Old 12-30-2016, 06:47 AM   #37
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I thought about going with diesel, but it just isn't in the budget right now. A few years back we had a small TH ( ~25 ft & loaded with a Road King ). Towed it behind my 2007 Ram 2500 Hemi. We were all over the east coast from the Smokies to Acadia NP and never had any issues. It was a very stable setup and just enough power. My plan would be to get one a little bigger, but not much.

Based on my previous experience, I figured the 6.4 would do pretty well. I will admit though, this plan could be completely invalid as I haven't really looked a TH's lately. I don't know if something in the 28 - 30 ft range would have everything I need. Nor do I know what something like that would weigh fully loaded. Based on your post Gary ( 31 ft loaded = 11k ), I'm guessing it might come in just under 10k.
ALWAYS go larger on the TV if there is any chance of moving up to a larger TT later. We went with a Sierra 3500HD and absolutely love this truck. This is our 8th or 9th truck and by far our favorite. I also really liked the Dodge 3500 that we drove. Just a point to consider, we average 18.3 mpg combined highway/city in the NC mountains when not hauling and got 15.4 mpg hauling our loaded 5th down to Florida from NC.

You can't go wrong with either the Chevy/GMC or Dodge diesel 3500s. Both engine-trans combinations are great!

Good luck!!
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Old 12-30-2016, 06:57 AM   #38
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2011 and on Ford F350 with the 6.7L (400hp 800#torque) works good also. Averaged 16 mpg pulling a 12000# 5ver from Radium Hot Springs BC across Canada and down to Nevada. This was 4 years ago. Have since sold the oufit (a mistake).
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:01 AM   #39
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Ok. Understand I’m a newbie here…but the op is asking about towing a 2017 Passport Elite 19RB and you all are replying back with 2500s, duallies, diesels, etc? What?
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:29 AM   #40
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Ok. Understand I’m a newbie here…but the op is asking about towing a 2017 Passport Elite 19RB and you all are replying back with 2500s, duallies, diesels, etc? What?

Read all of his posts. He alluded to going larger on the trailer in the future and was trying to prepare for that.
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