bumper pull vs fifth wheeler for 1/2 ton PU?

[rooti]

I have been towing bumper pull trailers for over 30 years without incident. I have always been on the edge for weight but never had any issues. I have a 2007 NBS 1500 silverado with the 5.3 engine and the 3.43 gears and it is currently towing my 2005 28' alpenlite that weighs in at about 6,000 pounds with what I have in it

We are thinking about upgrading to a tad bigger trailer but want to keep the same truck. I would replace the gears with 4.11 and upgrade the WDH to the top of the line. I am looking at the Laredo 294rk but the dealer is recomending me to go to the 28sgs fifth wheeler. The 5th wheeler is heavier but keystone advertises it as 1/2 ton towable.

I have never had a 5th wheeler, so how does it work towing vs a bumper pull?
Can you get a removeable hitch with a fifth wheeler if I want to haul a load of gravel when I'm not towing?

Any comments would be helpful

[bsmith0404]

5th wheel hitches are easily removed from the bed of the truck, I only install mine when towing. As for towing them, they are a dream. They follow so nice behind the truck you will love them compared to a bumper tow. As for towing it with your truck, a 10,000 GVW trailer with 1,500 on the pin for a 1/2 truck....NO WAY! Additionally, the 5.3 even with 4:10 gears will struggle. I used to tow a similar sized trailer with a 2500 and 6.0 with 4:10s, it was fine on a flat road, but struggled in the hills and mountains. If you want to keep your truck, you don't want the 28SGS.

[Festus2]

First, I wouldn't believe what the salesman is telling you about the 28SGS 5th wheeler. Keystone makes a habit of advertising some of their units as "1/2 Towable" - which maybe correct IF you read the fine print. If you have complete faith in both the salesman and the "Half Ton Towable" sticker, then I have a bridge for sale at a great price. PM me for details.

If you are seriously considering a 5th wheel, yes, you can get a removable 5th wheel hitch.

I've towed both and much prefer a 5th wheel for towing. It tracks better, less sway, and more is maneuverable.

Rather than switching to a 4.10 rear end, why not get a 3/4 ton truck? This way, you won't have to worry about "being on the edge" and possibly overweight and it will give you much more flexibility about the weight and length of most present and future purchases.

[rooti]

It is really hard getting real answers when dealing with weights and trucks. My truck is an extended cab with standard bed. Where should I be at on weght? I live in Texas so everything is flat but do want to stay legal. What is the max "legal" weight?

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by rooti

It is really hard getting real answers when dealing with weights and trucks. My truck is an extended cab with standard bed. Where should I be at on weght? I live in Texas so everything is flat but do want to stay legal. What is the max "legal" weight?

Where should you be on weight? That depends, of course, upon what RV you are pulling. We have no information about the towing specs on your truck nor anything about the weight of the TT or 5th wheel so it's impossible to provide you with any "real answers".

Not sure about Texas, but in most places there isn't any max "legal" weight restrictions - except some DL restrictions when towing something in excess of 10000 in some states and provinces. There is a "safe" weight and you should be under the maximum towing limits of your truck. Doesn't matter if you are pulling in the flats or in the mountains, the limit doesn't change.

[bsmith0404]

Look at the sticker inside the door, that will give you the GVWR for the truck as well as the GAWR. Then you can scale your truck with you and gear and see where you are at. Scale both axles separately, a Cat scale is perfect fir this. From there you know how much your truck weighs, how much weight you have on each axle and how much you can add to it for load. You do not want to exceed the GVWR or the GAWR.

Additionally, if you check your owners manual, there is a page for GCVWR, knowing the truck weight and RV weight, as well as allowance for you and gear, you will know how much you can tow. Good rule of thumb, stay at least 1,000 under.

Finally, check your tires. 1/2 tons often have a P tire for ride quality, you may have to change to an LT tire for load capacity.

As stated before, if you want to start stepping up to larger RVs, upgrade to a 2500, you won't regret it.

[rooti]

I have a 6800 GVW rating, tow package including locking rear differential, 3.42 axle, HD aux trans. cooler and the curb weight of 3,087. I also upgrade the tires to the top of the line michelin LT tires. I would do the 4.11 gears but buying another truck is not in the budget. Weighing a trailer I haven't bought would be challenging.

The highest weight I've seen in towing charts was 8800 for my extended cab, standard bed, and 1500 suspension was 8800 max but that would be with the bigger motor and 3.73 gears. As far as pulling, I should be fine with the 5.3 motor and the new 4.11 gears (and retune)

So where should I be at? Does it matter if its a fifth wheeler or trailer as far as weight?

[JRTJH]

The "real answer" to what you can carry (payload) is partially located on your driver's door panel, the rest is at the nearest truck scale. Every (emphasis on EVERY) truck is used differently so there is no "fits all" answer to payload.

You need to find the sticker on your driver's door, it will give you the maximum GVW (gross vehicle weight) for your truck. Armed with that figure, load your truck with what you'd expect to carry when pulling the trailer, all passengers and a full fuel tank. Go to the nearest truck scale, weigh your truck, add 150 pounds (for your fifth wheel hitch) and then subtract that weight from the maximum GVW. That will give you a good "estimate" of what's left over that you can use to add the "pin weight" of the fifth wheel you're looking at.

Remember, the trailer's advertised pin weight is the EMPTY trailer pin weight without a battery, propane or any cargo. Normal pin weights are 15 - 25% of the total trailer weight. So to get your "estimated "REAL" pin weight, use the trailer GVW as the pin weight. On the 28SGS, the GVW is 10,000 lbs. Your pin weight should be in the range of 1500 - 2500 lbs. If you have a "conventional" half ton truck, your empty truck payload should be somewhere between 1250 - 1600 lbs. As you can see, the 28SGS is going to be "too much trailer" for most half ton trucks (even before you add passengers and necessary cargo for travel).

As for the term "HALF TON TOWABLE", read the small print on every trailer manufacturer brochure. The "disclaimer" will read, "Half ton towable with a properly equipped truck". VERY FEW half ton trucks that are sitting on the dealer's lot are "properly equipped" and certainly "not all" half ton trucks are equipped to tow such a large trailer. The "properly equipped" truck is going to be a "HD half ton" with a payload of around 2000 to 2300 lbs. That truck will almost always need to be special ordered from the dealership. They just don't have them on most lots.

There are a couple of members who attempted to tow a 28SGS with a half ton truck and found that they were overloaded. We've got one member who has a 3/4 ton truck and when he weighed his rig, he found the 28SGS put his truck at the maximum payload. On the other hand, we have a couple of members with "properly equipped half ton trucks" who do tow trailers similar in weight to the 28SGS. But, they aren't using a "normal payload half ton".

Advertising, dealers and especially salesmen at RV dealers are all aimed at selling RV's, not at accommodating new owners who don't fully understand their purchase. Translated, that means: If the salesman's lips are moving, he's likely telling you something that's aimed at getting your money, not necessarily the total truth".

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rooti

I have a 6800 GVW rating, tow package including locking rear differential, 3.42 axle, HD aux trans. cooler and the curb weight of 3,087. I also upgrade the tires to the top of the line michelin LT tires. I would do the 4.11 gears but buying another truck is not in the budget. Weighing a trailer I haven't bought would be challenging.

The highest weight I've seen in towing charts was 8800 for my extended cab, standard bed, and 1500 suspension was 8800 max but that would be with the bigger motor and 3.73 gears. As far as pulling, I should be fine with the 5.3 motor and the new 4.11 gears (and retune)

So where should I be at? Does it matter if its a fifth wheeler or trailer as far as weight?

This is why you need to go to a truck scale and actually weigh your truck with all the cargo and passengers that will be in the truck when you tow. The weight you list (3087) is extremely low for a truck. My wife's Escape weighs more than that. Your truck should be closer to 5000 lbs with the gas tank full and you in the driver's seat.

[GmaPaTime]

Listen to what everyone as said, as it is a fact. I've just gone through all this with my F-250 and can verify that even with a F-250 you will need to stay on the lower to mid size of extra light fifth wheel trailers. I'm looking at the 29RET and that one puts us at an 85% level of max weights. Repeat of what others have said, Don't believe what dealers say about TV's. They only want to sell you a trailer

[rooti]

I realize from your post that a fifth wheeler is out...back to the tt

[GaryWT]

Travel trailer vs 5th wheel does come down to payload. The 5th wheel needs more. I have not towed one, I have only towed travel trailers but mine tows like a dream. If you have to watch every trip what you can bring etc it is no fun. A 5th wheel allows you to have a longer trailer with less going down the road but if you do not have the payload to do it you will not be happy.

[kellydog98]

Listen to us now and believe us later. More truck is the way to go. Most new-comers understand about weight and truck power. However, going up a hill is not the only "power" to consider. It's also about slowing down on a hill, and, GOD willing, STOPPING. My 2011 2500 4x4 6.6 desiel Z71 has the power and suspension to pull my 403 Fuzion toy hauler. It also has the Allison transmission brake, plus exhaust brake, and the built in trailer brake. The Z71 package comes with the extra suspension. Therefore, it pays to pay attention to these suggestions. It not only will get you where you are going, but in all that is true, it will get you there and home safely. Isn't that the real reason we all do this? Good Luck, and happy truck hunting!

[Rweb]

The great folks on this forum are offering great advice. When we first upgraded from a tent trailer, I pulled a 22ft 5th wheel with a half ton truck. I can't remember the weights, the truck would pull it okay. Upgraded to a 26ft 5th wheel trailer using a half ton, and realized that this isn't going to cut it anymore. Would it pull it, yes, but it struggled up a lot of hills. It seemed to stop it okay but I was white knuckling it a lot more than I wanted to be. This one weighed about 8000 lbs. I upgraded to a 2500 hd gas truck. Then we bought a 32 ft trailer we have now, and the gas truck did okay, but it did struggle somewhat too. So I bought a diesel a few months ago. Long as I am pulling a trailer, I will have a diesel truck.

My opinion, wait until you can afford a bigger truck to buy a 5th wheel. Pulling it with a half ton is just not safe and can create a lot of stress while driving that is just not needed.

[poncho62]

I pull a 24ft 5th wheel with my older 1/2 ton. Trailer weighs under 6000# loaded. It pulls it fine, struggles a bit on long hills. I wouldn't want to go to a heavier trailer

[theasphaltrv'er]

We have a 1/2 ton. I'll tell ya the 28SGS is way to much for any 1/2 ton. When we were looking, the sales lady really tried to put us in a 28SGS. She worked her fanny trying to get us to say yes. I new all the time it was to big even for our HD 1/2 ton Ecoboost. We went with it's cousin the 26SAB and what a fantastic match it is. You just got match the right RV with the right tow vehicle. Do your homework & don't be in a hurry. We spent 6 months looking.

[x96mnn]

I think if you go with a bigger camper you will find yourself travelling less regardless what you do to your truck. Did the same thing 3 years ago, bought a new truck, 1500 plenty of power and hauled my 25 footer easy. Went to a 30 foot, bought at the time the best sway control WD hitch I could find......then Michellin MX2 E rated tires, not the LT but E rated, then Airbags in the back, then had the hitch setup again, then went seasonal this year....then bought a bigger truck.

I can't tell you that you can or cannot, you may feel fine doing it and there is a lot out there who do I just know I did not. It was the constant feeling with every wind gust that if this thing decides to go, my truck may not be able to stop it.

During this camping trip we came across an rv accident. Not sure what happened and I could not take a picture as we were waved through quickly. Long and short it was roughly a 33 foot camper being hauled by a newer Toyota tundra 5.7. Trailer was on its side in the ditch, truck was twisted and on its side, from the black marks it looks like the trailer pushed the truck sideways and flipped. Maybe it was an unavoidable situation but I am thinking too much camper for that truck.

[LuvsPalmTrees]

We have a 1/2 ton Ram with a Hemi. We would not consider a fifth wheel - it is too much for our truck. When we went to the shows to shop around we seen the fifth wheels with the 1/2 ton towable signs on them. They would have maxed us out - the sales people said of "you will be okay" - we knew better. We had a 25 ft and wanted to upgrade and get out of a bunkhouse. We went with the Laredo 294RK and we love it. It was a great choice for us.

[ncgrl1]

Not trying to be disrespectful to the previous post but we pull a Cougar 26SAB with our 2012 Ram 1500. Added Airlift 1000 airbags and some higher load capacity tires. It does a great job as far as I am concerned. The truck is a regular cab short bed hemi with 3.92 gears.

[chuckster57]

Adding air bags and higher capacity tires does nothing to increase the GVWR of the vehicle.