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Old 01-10-2013, 09:24 AM   #1
amosher13
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Can't tell if my black tank is draining

Hey all, new to RVing and new to snowbirding as well. Have had some issues with freezing on and off over the last few weeks and was getting some help in the introduction section. I have gotten 1" EPS skirting setup and a light under the rig (a borrowed 29GR fifth wheel) with a small space heater if i need it.

My tanks were not draining at all and the black tank was getting full. I left it open in case it warmed up so it would just drop and I think it did, but not 100% sure, lol. All other tanks are draining nicely. Why I'm not sure is because i can "see" material that seems to be backing up just below the toilet. But I am wondering if this is just in the pipe that connects to the tank or is an issue with the tank itself.

Basically wondering if there are any tips to either tell or fix this. I thought of simply poking around with a coat hanger to see if I could free it up but don't want to damage anything. Any other thoughts or ideas? thanks all!
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:30 AM   #2
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Try pouring some real hot water down there to free up all that frozen paper and what ever might be there. Check your hose to make sure its flowing out. Keep doing the real hot water pouring until its all flushed out. If you continue to let it back up. Its going to be a real mess to clean up.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:36 AM   #3
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Amosher13 -

The first thing to ask . . . Are you saying that you have left your black tank valve open while using the toilet over a period of time? If so, you have the "dreaded pyramid"! To contrast, if you are "permanent", you can leave your gray tanks open (ignoring the freezing in the connection pipe) to drain continously into the sewer. You leave your black tank closed and allow it to fill with a fluid and solid mixture - usually more than half full. Then close the gray tanks for a while to let them fill partially too. The dump the black tank, use the black tank sprayer if you have one, close the black tank (and flow around 5 gallons of water into it along with treatment), and open the gray tanks again to flush the connection hose clean.

Are you practicing the latter or have you left the black tank valve open "during use"?

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Old 01-10-2013, 10:04 AM   #4
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haha isnt this a great topic, and thanks for the swift replies. generally i have been leaving all tanks closed and was doing the black first then grays to flush out as explained. I did, for a few days, leave the black tank valve open during use as it was not draining.

I left it open for a few days to see if it would drain and i "think" it eventually did, but i was still seeing matter under the toilet so I wasn't totally sure (the light gage is not accurate). So it has now been closed for a few days and we have been using it and it doesn't really seem to be getting any higher, but its not getting any lower either.

I will try some hot water and then see if it will drain for me, thanks for the input and keep any good tips coming!

edit: SH*T, literally. ok tasteless joke. so i poured 2 pitches of HOT water down there and let it sit a little. i pulled the valve and not really too sure if much came out or if there was already some liquid in the hose. but the hose is empty now and nothing else coming out and its still nearly full under that toilet flush valve. could really use that miracle tip right now....
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amosher13 View Post
haha isnt this a great topic, and thanks for the swift replies. generally i have been leaving all tanks closed and was doing the black first then grays to flush out as explained. I did, for a few days, leave the black tank valve open during use as it was not draining.

I left it open for a few days to see if it would drain and i "think" it eventually did, but i was still seeing matter under the toilet so I wasn't totally sure (the light gage is not accurate). So it has now been closed for a few days and we have been using it and it doesn't really seem to be getting any higher, but its not getting any lower either.

I will try some hot water and then see if it will drain for me, thanks for the input and keep any good tips coming!

edit: SH*T, literally. ok tasteless joke. so i poured 2 pitches of HOT water down there and let it sit a little. i pulled the valve and not really too sure if much came out or if there was already some liquid in the hose. but the hose is empty now and nothing else coming out and its still nearly full under that toilet flush valve. could really use that miracle tip right now....
If all that is stacked and frozen. 2 pitchers isnt going to do it. You need gallons of hot water.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:32 PM   #6
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damn, its about full up to where I can't get anymore in there. At this point though I am also thinking more clog than freeze since I have been heating under there for days and the other tanks have no issue. Could be wrong though of course. Not sure what else I can do then.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:32 PM   #7
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Miracle tip 101: <wink>

Close the black tank valve. Go into the toilet room, start flushing until you can see the water standing just below the toilet trap. let it stand for 20 minutes, go outside, pull the valve and listen, you should hear the gurlging of a normal tank dump. Then, use the black tank flush if you have one, otherwise, go back into the toilet room and fill the black tank by repeated flushing again. Then, dump the tank and close it. Should be good to go.

If you only had a couple of days of use with the valve open, the solids should not have dried that fast, so they should be soft enough to dissolve with the added water. None of the tank indicators will give accurate readings, so don't even consider them to be telling you anything except that there's 12 volts on the circuit.

By adding the 30+ gallons of cool/cold water, if there is any ice remaining in your black tank, it should melt or at least get a good start on melting.

If, after all of these attempts, you still see that pyramid of brown under the toilet, you can get (probably borrow from a neighbor) a tank sprayer. It's a 3' section of 1/2" pvc pipe with a rotating sprayer on the end. Connect it to a garden hose, stick it down the toilet and "let 'er rip" until the pyramid is gone. If you have to do that, I'd leave the tank half full for a couple of days just to let the broken up pyramid dissolve some. Big hard chunks may not go through the valve and if they get caught and the valve won't close, it could be messy to reach up in there to pull it out. After a couple of days, dump again, then remember..... NEVER LEAVE THE BLACK TANK VALVE OPEN
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by amosher13 View Post
damn, its about full up to where I can't get anymore in there. At this point though I am also thinking more clog than freeze since I have been heating under there for days and the other tanks have no issue. Could be wrong though of course. Not sure what else I can do then.
Based on what you say here, you may well have a freeze in the pipe outside the black tank. If you can see under your RV, you'll see the gray tank and the black tank, between them should be a "manifold" with two valves. The gray tank has a 1 1/2" valve and the black tank has a 3" valve. they connect into the common dump pipe. Most likely, if it's not draining and you are sure the valve is opening (the Bowden cables break quite often) you may have a frozen block in the pipe outside the tank.

I'd get a good look at the valve to make sure the plunger is actually opening. The handles are known to pull out of thee plastic slide valve and the bowden cables (if you have remote handles) are known to break. Make sure the actual plastic valve is opening. if it is and nothing is coming out, then there's a plug in the pipe before the valve. If the slide is not moving, you may get lucky and only have to screw the rod back into the plastic slide... Or...... YECHT .
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:51 PM   #9
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If you're not familiar with what the valve looks like, here is a picture, You can see the rod, it screws into the flat plastic valve. If the rod isn't moving, the valve isnt opening. If the rod is moving and nothing is coming out (and you know there is liquid on the other side of the valve) then the rod isn't connected to the valve. You might be able to screw it back in, or you may have to manually open the valve. The easiest way is to open the black plastic shield and use pliers to pull the valve open.

BUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My guess is that since it was working OK before the freeze, it's probably OK and I wouldn't destroy the valve until you know for sure there's no other option.......
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:10 PM   #10
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THANK YOU! very good info, i will check that out, the toilet is full up to under the trap and letting it sit for now. I cant really see the tanks themselves due to the coroplast under there but i think i can see where the 1.5" and 3" pipes connect to the dump pipe. The slide rod does pull out but I will see if I can tell if its pulling the valve or not. thanks, keep you posted.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:37 PM   #11
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i think we have liftoff ladies and gentlemen! so right around 25 minutes of soaking i heard this (warning, graphic content ahead) squirting noise from the toilet, went and looked and the contents under the toilet trap appear to have dropped.

now i'm thinking the tank really has been empty or mostly so, i ran water for a bit (flushing, toilet) but i think to be safe i will let it fill up a while before i go draining it again just to make sure it is full enough and dissolved enough to drain nicely.

thanks again for the input, one more obstacle to fulltime rv living conquered.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:18 PM   #12
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Amosher13 -

Yup, I was afraid of that. Couple more questions. Do you have a short segment of clear sewer connector pipe? A lot of us use a short clear segment to "observe the flow". If not, you can get a segment at most RV stores and even Walmart sometimes. Are you sure you know which "pull" connects to the black tank? Keystone's SOP is to connect the pulls different to the labels on the pulls. Thus, one needs the short clear segment to verify the tank's contents. JRTJH has some excellent advice, but do check that the pull you think is "black" is actually connected to the "black".

Ron.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:34 PM   #13
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Talking Fire Department

Hey, while in the Navy when we had a clog we broke out the 1-1/2 inch fire hose, it either broke the clog or you got really wet and really nasty thus the name terd casher. If all else fails call the fire department for a back flush. I hope you get it working. Just a little friendly jest!
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:18 AM   #14
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Glad you got it going.What were the temps outside where you are?
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #15
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thanks ron and thanks all,

yeah it did finally go and seems good now. it may have reached as high as 40 yesterday. This week has been much warmer during the day but the last 2 or so have been in single digits and teens during the day. weather says its 22 now which feels about right and we just got a little dusting of snow.

no i dont have any clear section but i am reasonably sure the valves are labeled correctly base on which tanks have filled up when and when i've had to drain them.
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