First post, looking at a Cougar

[pdaniel]

Many times customer service means dealership. And the dealers are overwhelmed. I owned a 2016 Cougar 30 RLI. For the most part I was satisfied but many issues drove me nuts-lack of heat, coax connections that wouldn’t work, leaky windows. Many times I would contact Keystone only to never receive an answer. Perhaps over the past couple of years Keystone has improved.
Buying an RV is a crap shoot at best.
Browse social media for other manufacturers makes and models.
There are times the answers about customer service will be found.

[pdaniel]

Check Grand Design.

[ewbldavis]

For what it's worth - most I've known with Cougars and ourselves have had few issues. Stupid little stuff, but nothing major.

The Cougar has been as much a quality product in the industry for a while, and our 2020 seems to mimic that quality with a well equipped package for the money. Big ticket features in a reasonable price range.

[ewbldavis]

Originally Posted by pdaniel

Check Grand Design.

They're about the same. We had no issues. Our friend's Imagine is going in for a laundry list of issues, including a leak.

Some of it is luck of the draw I believe.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by pdaniel

I owned a Cougar until almost two years ago. I called customer service several times. Waiting for a call back. So, my latest towable is a fifth wheel. The manufacturer’s customer service people will contact you the same day you request assistance. The manufacturer attends owner’s rallies and will perform minor repairs and adjustments-many times gratis. The manufacturer assisted me in getting a warranty reimbursement on a defective air conditioner. Will Thor/Keystone go to that extent?

Well, don't leave us in suspense -- who is this paragon manufacturer?

[Roy Finchville]

Originally Posted by Mike&Sandy

My wife and I are looking at several TT's. In Keystone, we really like the cougar 29bhs. My only sticking point is customer service. After reading some of the online reviews about Keystone, it sounds like there are some real horror stories with warranty issues. I can't imagine this being a systemic issue. Can anyone offer reassurance or tips/tricks to avoid any nightmares please? Thanks in advance.

Don’t buy Keystone. If you do buy Keystone plan on doing all the work yourself. Take unit to a place puts lifetime warranty 2 part spray on roof system. Plan on replacing bearing/brakes every 2 years after pulling hubs and checking greasing every year. Be mundful of slideouts and weight in slideouts and plan on gearbox every 2 to 3 years. Plan in hand waxing unit twice a year and spray on wash wax ever time you take unit out. With the number of windows and lack of insulation around slide outs and in lower area, the air conditioner can not cool unit during the day mire than 15-17 degrees. Keep all leveling gear clean and painted and apply white lithium grease. Larger slide outs are not on rollers they are on a slide bar. The black polyethylene mesh underneath slides across a plastic bar. Each time before slide out is brought in clean this area and apply white lithium to let it slide in easier and reduce replacing slide out motor, gearbox, cables, etc. change out antenna to Winegard that cranks up above air conditioner if you want reception. Have radio antenna installed since Keystone does mot see a need for them. Replace tires immediately after purchase So they do not blow up as soon as you get in interstate. And I could go on.
If having to drop off for service plan on a minimum of 3 to 4 months for minor repairs and probably having to take it back to repair incomplete repair.

Do not buy extended warranty repair which forces all work to be done by certified repair company which will cost you a lot of time waiting, lack of use of your TT, and increased cost.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Roy Finchville

Don’t buy Keystone. If you do buy Keystone plan on doing all the work yourself. Take unit to a place puts lifetime warranty 2 part spray on roof system. Plan on replacing bearing/brakes every 2 years after pulling hubs and checking greasing every year. Be mundful of slideouts and weight in slideouts and plan on gearbox every 2 to 3 years. Plan in hand waxing unit twice a year and spray on wash wax ever time you take unit out. With the number of windows and lack of insulation around slide outs and in lower area, the air conditioner can not cool unit during the day mire than 15-17 degrees. Keep all leveling gear clean and painted and apply white lithium grease. Larger slide outs are not on rollers they are on a slide bar. The black polyethylene mesh underneath slides across a plastic bar. Each time before slide out is brought in clean this area and apply white lithium to let it slide in easier and reduce replacing slide out motor, gearbox, cables, etc. change out antenna to Winegard that cranks up above air conditioner if you want reception. Have radio antenna installed since Keystone does mot see a need for them. Replace tires immediately after purchase So they do not blow up as soon as you get in interstate. And I could go on.
If having to drop off for service plan on a minimum of 3 to 4 months for minor repairs and probably having to take it back to repair incomplete repair.

Do not buy extended warranty repair which forces all work to be done by certified repair company which will cost you a lot of time waiting, lack of use of your TT, and increased cost.

Roy, It is hard to digest so much questionable advice. Why would a new owner want to put a two part spray on roof system. Isn't maintaining the 12 year warranty new roof enough? Replacing the bearings and brakes every two years? Slide gearbox 2-3 years? Where are you coming up with these ideas? Personal experience? Sounds like you have had some exceptionally bad experience with some camper and that too is an unknown since you don't list it in your profile or a signature. Since Keystone uses the same roof, brake, bearing and slide components as almost all other trailers at Keystone's price point, all of them across all brands would be failing at the rates you suggest.

[Mike&Sandy]

I appreciate all the comments. And, thought this will be my first RV, I've had several boats including an offshore one with twins. Anyone who has had a boat can attest to having to fix something on every trip. Likewise, owning an RV that will essentially go through an earthquake for several hours along with hurricane force winds for several hours while going to your destination would be deceiving themselves to think that things will stay pristine.

I'm sure that the majority of people who are having unsatisfactory lives with an RV are likely those who cannot "fix" things, expect perfection in everything, or actually have gotten themselves a lemon.

My plan, and I told the salesman this, is to stay in the RV overnight on the property, and find out if I have a lemon within the following 12 hours or so to have them fix any irregularities before moving it off the property. Because I realize that life happens, things break, you fix them then move on. It's not only the destination in life but the journey as well.

Making memories and leaving a legacy is what matters. Let the small stuff roll of your back.

[Camping family]

Originally Posted by Roy Finchville

Don’t buy Keystone. If you do buy Keystone plan on doing all the work yourself. Take unit to a place puts lifetime warranty 2 part spray on roof system. Plan on replacing bearing/brakes every 2 years after pulling hubs and checking greasing every year. Be mundful of slideouts and weight in slideouts and plan on gearbox every 2 to 3 years. Plan in hand waxing unit twice a year and spray on wash wax ever time you take unit out. With the number of windows and lack of insulation around slide outs and in lower area, the air conditioner can not cool unit during the day mire than 15-17 degrees. Keep all leveling gear clean and painted and apply white lithium grease. Larger slide outs are not on rollers they are on a slide bar. The black polyethylene mesh underneath slides across a plastic bar. Each time before slide out is brought in clean this area and apply white lithium to let it slide in easier and reduce replacing slide out motor, gearbox, cables, etc. change out antenna to Winegard that cranks up above air conditioner if you want reception. Have radio antenna installed since Keystone does mot see a need for them. Replace tires immediately after purchase So they do not blow up as soon as you get in interstate. And I could go on.
If having to drop off for service plan on a minimum of 3 to 4 months for minor repairs and probably having to take it back to repair incomplete repair.

Do not buy extended warranty repair which forces all work to be done by certified repair company which will cost you a lot of time waiting, lack of use of your TT, and increased cost.

Don’t know what you purchased but I purchased a Cougar 5th wheel 29rks and have had no issues as of yet other then a few minor things hing on cabinet door switch on recliner. Both of which I took care of. Maybe I’m just a lucky one.

[Camping family]

Originally Posted by Mike&Sandy

I appreciate all the comments. And, thought this will be my first RV, I've had several boats including an offshore one with twins. Anyone who has had a boat can attest to having to fix something on every trip. Likewise, owning an RV that will essentially go through an earthquake for several hours along with hurricane force winds for several hours while going to your destination would be deceiving themselves to think that things will stay pristine.

I'm sure that the majority of people who are having unsatisfactory lives with an RV are likely those who cannot "fix" things, expect perfection in everything, or actually have gotten themselves a lemon.

My plan, and I told the salesman this, is to stay in the RV overnight on the property, and find out if I have a lemon within the following 12 hours or so to have them fix any irregularities before moving it off the property. Because I realize that life happens, things break, you fix them then move on. It's not only the destination in life but the journey as well.

Making memories and leaving a legacy is what matters. Let the small stuff roll of your back.

You have a good plan and are correct on your assumption of some people. I think if you are not able to fix minor things or don’t expect some issues then a camper is not for you. After all like you said above you are hauling a home down the road at 55 mph. It’s one hell of a wind storm.

Enjoy live on

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Roy Finchville

Don’t buy Keystone. If you do buy Keystone plan on doing all the work yourself. Take unit to a place puts lifetime warranty 2 part spray on roof system. Plan on replacing bearing/brakes every 2 years after pulling hubs and checking greasing every year. Be mundful of slideouts and weight in slideouts and plan on gearbox every 2 to 3 years. Plan in hand waxing unit twice a year and spray on wash wax ever time you take unit out. With the number of windows and lack of insulation around slide outs and in lower area, the air conditioner can not cool unit during the day mire than 15-17 degrees. Keep all leveling gear clean and painted and apply white lithium grease. Larger slide outs are not on rollers they are on a slide bar. The black polyethylene mesh underneath slides across a plastic bar. Each time before slide out is brought in clean this area and apply white lithium to let it slide in easier and reduce replacing slide out motor, gearbox, cables, etc. change out antenna to Winegard that cranks up above air conditioner if you want reception. Have radio antenna installed since Keystone does mot see a need for them. Replace tires immediately after purchase So they do not blow up as soon as you get in interstate. And I could go on.
If having to drop off for service plan on a minimum of 3 to 4 months for minor repairs and probably having to take it back to repair incomplete repair.

Do not buy extended warranty repair which forces all work to be done by certified repair company which will cost you a lot of time waiting, lack of use of your TT, and increased cost.

Sorry for all the problems you've apparently had....maybe more than I've had in my lifetime. Replace the roof on an new Keystone because they wouldn't? Replace bearings and brakes every 2 years because Keystone wouldn't? I've never had to replace a slide gear box yet. Washing and waxing twice a year - is Keystone to pay for that? Well....I could go on but, wow.

It's unfortunate but, to me, it sounds like you don't like owning an RV, have/had a terrible dealer and may not know the "in's and out's" of RV ownership. Everything you listed happens with all RVs regardless of make - and none wash and wax your trailer for you twice a year.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Mike&Sandy

My wife and I are looking at several TT's. In Keystone, we really like the cougar 29bhs. My only sticking point is customer service. After reading some of the online reviews about Keystone, it sounds like there are some real horror stories with warranty issues. I can't imagine this being a systemic issue. Can anyone offer reassurance or tips/tricks to avoid any nightmares please? Thanks in advance.

I've had perhaps more than my share of warranty issues with my Cougar. As far as I can see, the "sample defects" in the unit as delivered are actually a minor part of the total frustration. What is a major part is when you bring them back to the dealer, Keystone OKs the repair, then the dealer 1) keeps your rig in the shop for a month or six weeks and then 2) says they have fixed your problem when they haven't.

Long and short of it is that you have to find a competent dealer first. If you're really lucky, you'll find one willing to go to bat for you when Keystone gets testy about whether something is a warranty issue or not. You have to realize that in many cases, the dealer's service department doesn't get the same reimbursement from Keystone for warranty work as they would if they were billing you directly, so there are significant perverse incentives there.

My dealer has "fixed" my furnace five times (while actually fixing it three times), charged me for not finding/fixing a leak in the toilet feed (which if he had found and fixed it, like I had to do myself, it would have been free), charged me for not finding a problem with my furnace (while not fixing the broken furnace), and so on and so on. This gets tiresome.

I had a good sales experience with these guys, but I'm never going back to them except for warranty work, because they have to do the warranty work (no one else will).

[sourdough]

I guess, although I told myself I wouldn't, I will shed some light on the Keystone "warranty" issues. They ALL start at your dealer - what they submit for a repair, how they word it, the hours, the material etc. Then the negotiation begins with the Keystone "warranty advisor/tech...whatever". In my world my tech (I only use one) submits then has to negotiate with the "advisor". They do NOT want to authorize full, "nice" repairs...just the "get us by" remedy.

The dealership is the key, you are 2nd. The dealership not only has to be in your court, they have to actually GO TO BAT for you. You have to be involved and KNOW what is going on; if not, you get what THEY (manufacturer) want to give you. I want to receive what I want. My brother made that mistake with Forest River and just thought all the good things would happen - and they didn't....he was so disillusioned he sold his new truck and RV on the spot - he didn't know how it worked.

Keystone is a good company, better than most but some others might be better....but I've not owned one. I will say again, you have to know your issues, have a great dealer and be willing to be involved - in a nutshell that's about it.

[Javi]

I will repeat myself...

Don't buy a trailer for the warranty, in reality the only thing actually warrantied by the manufacturer (in my case Keystone) is the walls and ceiling/roof... everything else is warrantied by the manufacturer of the device, from the frame to the ceiling fan, from the water heater to the fake fireplace... everything is warrantied by that particular items manufacturer; even the roofing material.

If you have a great local dealer or great dealer that you have to drive a couple of hundred miles to see; it doesn't matter..

I really like the dealer (or at least I like the salesman at that dealership) that I've bought my last two trailers from... But unless the side walls or roof itself start to fail, they will never see my trailer again..

What I can't fix myself goes to a GREAT INDEPENDENT RV TECH, who does not sell trailers and so is never tied up with make ready... He fixes trailers and is certified as a warranty center for most of the parts, pieces and gadgets that make up an RV.

He only gets paid if I'm HAPPY..

Dealers SELL & MAKE READY, they are not in the business to FIX STUFF..

[blubuckaroo]

Originally Posted by Roy Finchville

Don’t buy Keystone. If you do buy Keystone plan on doing all the work yourself. Take unit to a place puts lifetime warranty 2 part spray on roof system. Plan on replacing bearing/brakes every 2 years after pulling hubs and checking greasing every year. Be mundful of slideouts and weight in slideouts and plan on gearbox every 2 to 3 years. Plan in hand waxing unit twice a year and spray on wash wax ever time you take unit out. With the number of windows and lack of insulation around slide outs and in lower area, the air conditioner can not cool unit during the day mire than 15-17 degrees. Keep all leveling gear clean and painted and apply white lithium grease. Larger slide outs are not on rollers they are on a slide bar. The black polyethylene mesh underneath slides across a plastic bar. Each time before slide out is brought in clean this area and apply white lithium to let it slide in easier and reduce replacing slide out motor, gearbox, cables, etc. change out antenna to Winegard that cranks up above air conditioner if you want reception. Have radio antenna installed since Keystone does mot see a need for them. Replace tires immediately after purchase So they do not blow up as soon as you get in interstate. And I could go on.
If having to drop off for service plan on a minimum of 3 to 4 months for minor repairs and probably having to take it back to repair incomplete repair.

Do not buy extended warranty repair which forces all work to be done by certified repair company which will cost you a lot of time waiting, lack of use of your TT, and increased cost.

Sounds like you would have been a good candidate for the extended warranty. Were you offered one when you purchased?

[Eric363]

We have an early 2018 (5/17) 29bhs, and we still absolutely love the layout. I have gone to RV shows and perused floorplans online and still haven't found a better one. Works well for a family of 4. As others have mentioned the PDI is very important. We had a few issues when we took delivery. During our PDI we found a bad marker light that they changed while we were there. When we got home we noticed we had a problem with our touch lights in the bunk area. When we turned 1 on they both came but wouldn't shut off. The next day I noticed that one completely fried the led circuit board and had to take it back to the dealer. Turns out that one of the lights negative wires was tied to the other's positive. So the dealer's service center is very important in the decision as where to buy. How quick can they get you in and how long to fix is just as important as pricing. Which leads me to say and as most RVer's will attest to, it pays to be handy and accomplish some of your own repairs. My dealer is 2 hours away round trip, a week to schedule, and a few days in the shop followed by another 2 round trip. And I may add they are terrific, but a $50 or $100 repair done at home maybe easier and cheaper then bringing it in. Remember a lot the parts are manufactured by others and have there own warranties, and the manufacturers will some time send a part to repair it yourself. I got a water pump pressure switch sent to me after the Keystone warranty was up. Anyway good luck, if you go with the 29bhs you guys will love it!

Eric

[Eric363]

And I forgot, with 1/2 tank of water and a decent amount of stuff, hitch wieght was 1100lbs. Towed for 3 years with a 2011 CCSB F250 6.7, across country once, CT to FLA, and New Hampshire a
bunch of times no problems towing. I have a reese stedi-flex with 1400lbs bars and have very little if any sway.

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by Javi

I will repeat myself...

Don't buy a trailer for the warranty, in reality the only thing actually warrantied by the manufacturer (in my case Keystone) is the walls and ceiling/roof... everything else is warrantied by the manufacturer of the device, from the frame to the ceiling fan, from the water heater to the fake fireplace... everything is warrantied by that particular items manufacturer; even the roofing material.

If you have a great local dealer or great dealer that you have to drive a couple of hundred miles to see; it doesn't matter..

I really like the dealer (or at least I like the salesman at that dealership) that I've bought my last two trailers from... But unless the side walls or roof itself start to fail, they will never see my trailer again..

What I can't fix myself goes to a GREAT INDEPENDENT RV TECH, who does not sell trailers and so is never tied up with make ready... He fixes trailers and is certified as a warranty center for most of the parts, pieces and gadgets that make up an RV.

He only gets paid if I'm HAPPY..

Dealers SELL & MAKE READY, they are not in the business to FIX STUFF..

This is the truth. Find a independent repair shop. They survive only by fixing things. A good one will be a certified warranty center for most common components.