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Old 11-12-2018, 09:55 AM   #1
kazuaki
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Is my roof failing?

I've got a 2013 Raptor 381LEV fifth wheel toy hauler. I am up in the roof washing it in preparation for our desert camping season. I'm noticing that a lot of the roof is covered in these tiny cracks. Some areas even have tiny blisters on them. The picture below is the worst area, but much of the roof is cracked to a lesser degree. The trailer is less than 6 years old and the roof has only been washed with car wash soap and water. What is this? Is it going to leak?

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Old 11-12-2018, 10:00 AM   #2
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Looks like cracks to me. Lets see what others have to say/
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:07 AM   #3
kazuaki
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Looks like cracks to me. Lets see what others have to say/
It's definitely cracks. I'm just not sure what that means for my roof and my trailer and what needs to be done. I'm hoping we're not talking about a roof replacement. That seems crazy on an rv less than 6 years old.
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:56 AM   #4
shermris
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There are many different sealers and roof repair products made for RV roofs. Roofs are exposed to all of the elements 365 days a year unless they are stored indoors. Roof sealants are fairly expensive but you should be able to salvage your unit.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:03 PM   #5
66joej
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Kind of late now but did the car wash soap have petroleum distillates in it?
Not good for the roof material from what I have read. JMO
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:48 PM   #6
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It is an RV-specific soap, so I'd hope that's not the cause. I live in Southern California, so lots of sun exposure.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:53 PM   #7
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It looks like your roof is "one of the last of the EPDM roofing installations"... Around the time your trailer was built is about the same time the industry was switching from EPDM to TPO roofing membranes. The EPDM roof is a "rubber compound with a white film surface coating adhered to it. That white film is extremely easy to damage with cleaning products that contain petroleum distillates or citric acid. The "tiny cracks" in your photo are "classis distillate damage"....

That said, 5 or 6 years is about the time frame when EPDM roofs that have been "essentially ignored" start to show signs of damage. While I'm not suggesting that your roof has been "ignored" it probably would be in better condition, had it not been washed with car wash products.

At this point, you can "more or less" consider that the "cosmetic condition of your roof" is gone. The base membrane may or may not be damaged and have the same cracks. Chances are it is still in relatively good condition and what you see is more "cosmetic than physical" deterioration.

You can, if you choose, reseal the roof with DICOR 2 part sealant. That will restore the cosmetic appearance, fill the cracks and "recondition" your roof. You should see a remarkable appearance improvement for several years. Applying the 2 part sealant is not an easy task and it takes substantial "effort" to apply. It's not technically difficult, just labor intensive.

If the appearance bothers you, reseal, if you don't climb on your roof to look down at it and there's no "nosey neighbors with 2 story houses", then clean it well with Dawn and Clorox, let it dry and apply a good, liberal coat of Aerospace 303 and go camping (after the obligatory adult beverage break, of course).....
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:24 PM   #8
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I could care less what the top looks like. I just don't want leaks. That's my priority.
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:19 PM   #9
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I damaged my roof with tree limbs when going to a camp ground several months ago and the insurance company paid for a new roof. I used RV-Armor.com which uses a couple different steps and the last is a white goop they roll on. It requires no maintenance and is the last roof I will ever need. They offer a lifetime FULLY TRANSFERABLE warranty and the paperwork uses the VIN so a future owner can enjoy the guarantee. They also come to your trailer and do the work on site. You don't have to drag the trailer anywhere. If you are interested, PM me.

I will say this about your roof... if you see a lot of black, the pigmentation is leeched out of the roof and the cracks and black are a sign the roof is not going to last long. Something needs to be done fairly soon I suspect. When you can see the black, the membrane is thinner and pretty weak.
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:50 PM   #10
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Pm sent, thanks
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:35 AM   #11
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Buy EPDM liquid membrane by the 5 gal or so, prep roof as required, clean, apply membrane, waalaa....new roof good for 10+ seasons
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:23 AM   #12
Windsormike6
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The cracks are telling you it is time to reseal the roof depending on what kind of roof you have epdm or tpo type roof you’ll need to reseal around all vents and a/c with dicor lap sealant then you can apply the roof sealant with a paint roller you can find how to videos online with all the instructions and everything you’ll need to do it’s gonna run around 400.00 -450.00 for you you to do it or 1200.00-2000.00 for a shop to do it there are videos that tell you how to tell which type of rubber roof you have after that you’ll know which type of roof repair liquid to buy good luck keep us updated
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
It looks like your roof is "one of the last of the EPDM roofing installations"... Around the time your trailer was built is about the same time the industry was switching from EPDM to TPO roofing membranes. The EPDM roof is a "rubber compound with a white film surface coating adhered to it. That white film is extremely easy to damage with cleaning products that contain petroleum distillates or citric acid. The "tiny cracks" in your photo are "classis distillate damage"....

That said, 5 or 6 years is about the time frame when EPDM roofs that have been "essentially ignored" start to show signs of damage. While I'm not suggesting that your roof has been "ignored" it probably would be in better condition, had it not been washed with car wash products.

At this point, you can "more or less" consider that the "cosmetic condition of your roof" is gone. The base membrane may or may not be damaged and have the same cracks. Chances are it is still in relatively good condition and what you see is more "cosmetic than physical" deterioration.

You can, if you choose, reseal the roof with DICOR 2 part sealant. That will restore the cosmetic appearance, fill the cracks and "recondition" your roof. You should see a remarkable appearance improvement for several years. Applying the 2 part sealant is not an easy task and it takes substantial "effort" to apply. It's not technically difficult, just labor intensive.

If the appearance bothers you, reseal, if you don't climb on your roof to look down at it and there's no "nosey neighbors with 2 story houses", then clean it well with Dawn and Clorox, let it dry and apply a good, liberal coat of Aerospace 303 and go camping (after the obligatory adult beverage break, of course).....

Are the TPO roofs not a susceptible to damage from car wash products? Do they require any routine maintenance besides cleaning?

Thanks
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:01 PM   #14
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This is my "opinion" and I suppose everyone has one..... So, take it for the value you pay for it:

EPDM is a extremely durable "rubber roof compound" that has been used on RV's for more than 20 years. It is relatively heavy (when compared to TPO) and in the "industry search for lighter weight materials" TPO was chosen to replace the heavier EPDM. Along with that, lighter frame rails, lighter flooring, lighter windows, lighter <fill in the blank> all started showing up in RV's.

Is TPO as durable as EPDM? That question has been answered by the industry with the inclusion of a "pro-rated 12 year warranty" to the original owner, not transferrable and pro-rated after the second year. They "advertise a 12 year warranty (just like EPDM) but it's only been in use since around 2013, so nobody knows whether it'll last 12 years or not (I'm not one to believe the lab testing data as real world use)...

Who wins? With the pro rated warranty, if at 8 or 9 years, your TPO roof fails, you pay the manufacturer 90% of the cost of the replacement membrane, so they get paid more than their cost for materials (profit continues for them) and you're responsible for all labor charges. So they really have nothing to lose and a guarantee that you'll return to buy more (if you use the warranty)....

Win/Win for them, maybe a durable roof for us, maybe not, depends on whether their lab tests were properly done and we don't drive under a low hanging tree limb..... In which case, they win again, because they're "off the hook" for the rest of the warranty, just as they're "off the hook" if you trade RV's before the 12 years as the warranty is not transferrable.....

So, to answer your question, EPDM "seemed to be" more durable, at least in my experience, and I'm not impressed with TPO, just like I'm not impressed with Styrofoam laminated floors and in many cases walls..... Lighter, cheaper and "just as durable" don't always go hand in hand.......
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:06 AM   #15
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Dear JRTGH: Can you tell us more about Aerospace 303? I have a 2012 Montana 3150RL and I am pretty sure I have an EDPM roof. It is in good shape but I am a strong advocate of preventive maintenance. Aerospace 303 comes in many sizes of spray bottles and a gallon size for a variety of uses for auto, marine, and RV. I am thinking I would need a gallon? Would I pour some and then spread it out with a sponge roller or a mop? Or just use my 'garden sprayer' to put a generous spray coat on the roof? Does it have to be spread or rubbed in with a cloth or sponge? I am thinking that with a clean roof, maybe I could spray it on generously and then use a sponge mop to spread it out evenly. Is it fair to say that Aerospace 303 is like 'industrial strength Armour-All'?
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:07 AM   #16
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John,

I buy my 303 from Amazon in 1 gallon containers and use about 1 gallon/year on the RV and my boat. I've also started using it on the ATV, UTV, tractor seat and now on my Slingshot upholstery/plastics. On smaller areas, I use a old wash cloth/bar mop, wet it with undiluted 303 and wipe the surface, applying an even coat. On the RV roof, I wash with blue Dawn dish soap and warm water, when dry, I use a "sponge wax applicator" (think about the old Mop n Glow applicators) to spread the 303 over the roof surface.

I wash my RV FILON side walls and end caps with Meguires Auto Wash&Wax and when that is dry, I use the same sponge applicator to apply 303 to the sidewalls, covering all the decals. I try to wait about 24 hours between washing and 303 application to give the Meguires time to "outgas any distillates" and for the wax to dry. That makes wiping down the walls with a dry cloth after 303 application a bit easier.

If you wax your RV or seal it with some of the "diamond coat sealants", then immediately apply 303, it will "turn to goo" when applied over petroleum distillates contained in some of the wax/sealant compounds.... That's because 303 is a water based product and it just doesn't mix well with petroleum based products.

As for the comparison of Armor All to 303. They have many of the same "vinyl enriching properties" and both protect (in some ways) rubber, vinyl and fiberglass surfaces. The biggest difference is that Armor All can dry out the lubricating oils used in vinyl/rubber products (think damaged tire sidewalls) while 303 doesn't cause that damage.

Many people do not "wipe away" 303 after application. I find that if I do wipe it down after it dries, I get less "milking" on the decals when it rains. Either way, apply and done or apply and wipe it down will work to protect the surface and depending on where you're located, you may not have any "milking" at all.

As for how to determine which roof you have (I also think your Montana was one of the last to use EPDM) is to remove the plastic garnish ring from your bathroom roof vent fan. You'll see the roof membrane stapled to the frame under that garnish ring. Pull one of those tabs away from the framework and you can observe the back of the membrane. If it's black, it's EPDM, if it's the same color on both sides, it's TPO. Some early TPO had a "felt backing". ALL EPDM IS BLACK with a thin white/gray surface coat on the top.
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Old 11-30-2018, 08:10 AM   #17
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I also use the Meguires wash and wax. I am very happy with it. Thanks for the information on the 303 protectant. I’m going to try it the next time I wash my rig.
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