Yet another Towmax issue!

GaryBro · 08-27-2014, 05:49 PM

I had Towmax tires (235 80R16) on my new Fuzion 310 when I bought it in 2012. Ordered a TST 507 system with 10 sensors for my truck and camper. I thought that these would warn me of impending doom before something bad happened, so I really didn't worry too much. However, running along at 58 - 60, one of them let loose with the standard damage to the camper. All sensors were reading between 86 and 88 psi during the trip, and the one on the failed tire was still reading 88 after I had stopped (an issue to be resolved with TST). I got to my campsite on the spare and headed for a tire store. Decided to go with Goodyear G614's because of their 4080 pound load rating and they are made in USA! It's more than I need, but the Towmax tires at about 3000 pounds were at or past their limit with the Fuzion 310. The G614's are 14 ply and I'm not too concerned about them failing. A bit tough to handle the $1423 total price, but safety is the first concern.

kellydog98 · 08-27-2014, 06:02 PM

I have a Fuzion 403 with 6 tires. Goodyear was the way to go for me too. I think you will enjoy 'em. Happy Pulling!

**JRTJH** · 08-27-2014, 06:29 PM

GaryBro,

It sounds like you got caught not only by "typically questionable tires" but also by technology that didn't do you any favors. TPMS's are great (when they work) and can lead to a false sense of security when we think they are working (but aren't).

Could a functional TPMS have saved you this time, or is it possible that manually and visually checking your tires (maybe you did and just didn't say so) would have given you enough advance warning to watch closer ???

Unfortunately, this is a situation where the damage is already done. Once you get your trailer repaired and the new Goodyear tires onboard, hopefully TST can figure out what happened to the TPMS. It looks like the technology may have failed, but we may never know if it would have warned you soon enough to prevent the tire failure.

Maybe a "take away message" for everyone would be to visually check tires when stopped for breaks and don't put all your faith in a dash monitor, especially when running tires with a known history of being unreliable.

GaryBro · 08-28-2014, 06:34 AM

Part of it was probably my fault by relying on the sensors too much. The tire dealer showed me the failed tire and pointed out that right where it blew apart, the tread was quite warn off on one side. He said that this is evidence that the cords were broken for a while (don't know just how long). I guess the thing to do is inspect the tires often and question ANY strange wear patterns or bumps - sidewall and tread!

GaryBro · 08-28-2014, 06:53 AM

Just talked to a company (TBC something) and they handle claims for many tires, Towmax being one of them. She is forwarding my info to the company who makes the tires (Dynamic in Ontario, CA) and told me that my claim would be for the tire and the damage to the trailer. At least they will consider (I hope) fixing everything. I'll keep you posted.

outwest · 08-28-2014, 07:07 AM

Not to defend towmax, for they are cheap tires (and I don't mean just in price) but I think a large part of the failures while towing is things like too tight of turns and rolling the tire, rubbing curbs, sun rot, excessive speed, etc and due to not fully inspecting before and during trip and thinking old ones are okay just because they have tread still. On year two and still haven't changed out our towmax and no problems. Yeah, I'm playing with fire, but I examine them constantly (at every stop, etc). They will be changed out pretty soon, though. I only keep rv tires for two-three years (and I don't trust towmax enough to try a 3rd year)

@op - sorry to hear you had a blowout. Hope the damage wasn't too excessive and glad nobody was injured.

**JRTJH** · 08-28-2014, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outwest

Not to defend towmax, for they are cheap tires (and I don't mean just in price) but I think a large part of the failures while towing is things like too tight of turns and rolling the tire, rubbing curbs, sun rot, excessive speed, etc and due to not fully inspecting before and during trip and thinking old ones are okay just because they have tread still. On year two and still haven't changed out our towmax and no problems. Yeah, I'm playing with fire, but I examine them constantly (at every stop, etc). They will be changed out pretty soon, though. I only keep rv tires for two-three years (and I don't trust towmax enough to try a 3rd year)

@op - sorry to hear you had a blowout. Hope the damage wasn't too excessive and glad nobody was injured.

I totally agree with your assessment of Towmax tires. And I'd also suggest that it really doesn't matter which brand tire you have on your RV, "misuse" does occur with all of our tires when we turn too sharply, pull over the edge of a concrete pad, hit a pothole, etc. Then, to become lax in not checking pressure, inspecting for damage/wear, relying on an "electronic monitor device" and expecting tires to last for the "suggested lifetime" is "playing with fire.....

I think (just my opinion) that many times we buy the "latest gadget" and then turn all "responsibility" for whatever it's supposed monitor over to the gadget and "put it out of our mind and stop worrying about it. That can be a costly mistake. I wonder how many of us have stopped using a tire gage to check pressure and simply turn on the TPMS and look at what it says before we start our driving day? We think, "The tires are OK, the "box" says so....."

Many times I've seen monitors in the hospital alarm that a patient has stopped breathing, or that their heart has stopped beating. The life support team rushes in and when they arrive, the patient are sitting up in bed, watching TV and wishing the "damned bell" would stop ringing.... If we relied on those monitors, those patients should be on a one way trip to the morgue. Other times, I've seen those same monitors not alarm when the patient is in "grave danger".... Those are some of the most sophisticated monitoring systems ever built.

So, to rely on a $200 TPMS and to "trust it" as "always going to work" is taking a big risk.

To "philosophize" briefly, it seems that we've become too "busy" to be bothered, so we buy another gadget or add another app and get back to "playing" or "resting" and let the smart phone do the work for us.... I'm sure that "gadgets" and "smart phones" have a way of "HELPING" us, but I'm not so sure that any of them have the ability to "do the thinking for us" or "take over our responsibility".... I still think that when we pull into a rest stop after driving 2 or 3 hours, that the smartest thing we could do (before wetting our pants) is to walk around the trailer and truck, "thump" the tires, use a laser thermometer (or at least a hand) to check temp, shake the spare tire, the awning uprights, look at the windows, check the hitch, look for anything loose or "flopping", then go get some of that "other relief"..... Just sayin'.....

ADDED: I'm not trying to point fingers at the OP. He has enough issues trying to get his RV repaired and his tires replaced. The point I'm trying to illustrate is that we all can learn from his misfortune that relying on a machine to take over a task isn't always a prudent thing to do.

CWtheMan · 08-28-2014, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryBro

I Decided to go with Goodyear G614's because of their 4080 pound load rating and they are made in USA! The G614's are 14 ply and I'm not too concerned about them failing. A bit tough to handle the $1423 total price, but safety is the first concern.

Maximum load capacity for the G614 is 3750# at 110 psi. Still much better than your OE tires.

CW

TomHaycraft · 08-29-2014, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryBro

I had Towmax tires (235 80R16) on my new Fuzion 310 when I bought it in 2012. Ordered a TST 507 system with 10 sensors for my truck and camper.

Many good points made about the tires and reliance on TPMS. Another point to keep in mind about the TPMS devices, my experience is based on the TST 507, don't know if it relates to others.

While the logic is good to quickly alarm on high and low pressure and high temperature (outside default or user defined limits), the TST does not have the logic to alarm when sending unit is out of range. I can recall a post on this board or another, about use of the sending units on a long trailer where a repeater (amplifier?) was necessary to reliably get the signals to the receiving unit. GaryBro, having a triple-axel trailer, something you might consider when talking to folks at Trucking Systems Technologies.

To put this another way, after unhooking at a recent campground, receiver still on in the truck, I drove away for some bags of ice. A couple miles from the trailer, the same pressures and temperatures were displayed. This particular unit (others too?) does not have the logic to say, "it has been x-minutes or seconds since I heard from a transmitting device, alarm the operator."

I hear the unit alarm at times when I'm adding air (over pressure in flow-thru device) or when I remove the sending units when returning the trailer to storage. The device alarms quickly when a limit has been passed.

Hope this helps, safe travels.

GaryBro · 08-29-2014, 12:07 PM

Very good points to remember. I always manually check and reset the pressure of the tires before heading out. I then turn on the TPMS, just to see if it agrees with my hand gauge - usually only off by 1 or two psi so I don't worry. I will be checking the tires more closely before and during trips - something that I have been overlooking. Camping World had a display for the G614 and on the tire I read 4080 max load. What I forgot was that upon closer inspection of the tire, it was a G9xx (don't remember just what it was). The tire didn't match the signs. I'm still happy with the rating of the G614 as it will be more than enough for my camper and far better than the Towmax ones.

I only have a two axle trailer and was told that it "should" work. However, in the beginning I was getting lost signals on the back tires quite a bit. I then put the small antenna (that comes with the system) on the back window of my truck. It seems to be working fine, but is it really???? Will have to look into a signal booster!

kellydog98 · 08-29-2014, 03:58 PM

So, Just to set the TPMS record straight...TPMS is used to keep the driver aware of the psi and tire temp. A blow out may and will happen with normal psi and tire temp. So, relying on a TPMS system to 'WARN' anyone of the wear of a tire is not true. That is the operaters job before and during travel. I truley appreciate my TPMS to indicate if their is a loss of air over time, or if the temp increases which could be a wear indicator. Either one has me pulling over before the next gas up and checking. Happing Pulling

**JRTJH** · 08-29-2014, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellydog98

So, Just to set the TPMS record straight...TPMS is used to keep the driver aware of the psi and tire temp. A blow out may and will happen with normal psi and tire temp. So, relying on a TPMS system to 'WARN' anyone of the wear of a tire is not true. That is the operaters job before and during travel. I truley appreciate my TPMS to indicate if their is a loss of air over time, or if the temp increases which could be a wear indicator. Either one has me pulling over before the next gas up and checking. Happing Pulling

As long as the TPMS is functional, you're golden, but as indicated a couple of posts back, when you unhook the trailer, drive a couple of miles away and your TPMS is still indicating proper pressure, there's an indication that it "may not be reflecting the correct status"... Don't believe everything you see, some TPMS systems, if they lose remote contact with the tire sending unit, will reflect the last known status, not the current "loss of status" and give the driver a false sense of well-being". Whether it's pressure or temperature, knowing what it was "several miles ago" is useless information and can cause problems.

It's good that you have faith in your TPMS, I've got one on my truck and another on my RV and I still "thump the tires" and do a laser temp check at every stop as well as use my pressure gage every morning along with my torque wrench. I just don't trust my TPMS and if I knew then what I know now, I probably would have invested in an upgraded GPS.

rnkburg · 08-29-2014, 06:56 PM

I feel your pain. The exact same thing happens to me. My temps and pressure were perfect but mine let loose. It split right into damaging the side of camper. I ended up with the geostar g rated as recommended by some on here. Much better tire

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

outwest · 10-13-2014, 05:46 PM

Just thought I would update regarding my factory original Towmax tires. So far, over 6700 miles on them and they still look really good. Considering that it's a 2012 model trailer (and thus they're at least 3 yrs old, even though the trailer is only 2 yrs old to me), I'm not sure how much further I trust them and am working on deciding what to replace them with. But. . .

I think the factor that has helped the most (besides routinely checking pressure, parking on plastic blocks, and covering with tire covers when sitting in summer sun) has been the fact that it's a bumper pull and thus haven't maneuvered into extremely tight backup turns where the tires get scooted sideways, like you can do with a fifth wheel.

paoutlaw · 10-14-2014, 01:16 AM

out west what i believe you are not seeing is that the other campers these tires are on are twice the weight of your camper. and they are over the maxed capacity in dry weight them we load all are stuff and they are under rated. when every thing is at full load with water and cargo. if you look at two max their are rating for single tire and in dual use the dual use is an even lower rating.
Article No. Tire Size PR / LR Tread Depth Single Max. Load LBS.@PSI Dual Max. Load LBS.@PSI O.D. (inch) S.W. (inch) Static Loaded Radius
MAX13 ST175/80R13 C/6 10 1360 @ 50 1200@50 24.0 6.97 11.3
MAX15 ST185/80R13 C/6 10 1480 @ 50 1280@50 24.7 7.24 11.6
MAX36 ST205/75R14 C/6 10 1760 @ 50 1570@50 26.1 7.99 12.3
MAX38 ST215/75R14 C/6 10 1870 @ 50 1650@50 26.7 8.50 12.6
MAX48 ST205/75R15* C/6 10 1820 @ 50 1610@50 27.1 7.99 12.8
MAX49 ST205/75R15 D/8 10 2150 @ 65 1870@65 27.1 8.00 12.8
MAX51 ST225/75R15* D/8 10 2540 @ 65 2200@65 28.3 8.78 13.3
MAX53 ST225/75R15* E/10 10 2830 @ 80 2490@80 28.3 8.78 13.3
MAX24 ST235/80R16* E/10 10 3520 @ 80 3080@80 30.8 9.25 14.5
MAX17 ST235/85R16* E/10 10 3640 @ 80 3305@80 31.7 9.25 14.9

**JRTJH** · 10-14-2014, 07:37 AM

paoutlaw ,

With the exception of a very few travel trailers, (none produced by Keystone) all RV tires are used in "tandem" not in a "dual" configuration.

The referenced chart you posted does have the "single tire application" weight ratings which are appropriate for trailers with a single axle or with a two or three tandem axle setup. The "dual load" referenced in the chart is for tires used in an application such as the dual rear axle on a 1 ton truck or on some farm/logging trailers which have a "dual wheel axle". It does not apply to the tandem axle design commonly found on travel trailers.

I have no doubt that some owners have replaced their tires with ones that don't meet the axle ratings/GVW ratings for their trailer, but I haven't seen any RV (from a manufacturer) that has been equipped with tires that don't meet (or exceed) the axle rating required for the GVW of the trailer. If you have some examples, please post them.

You are correct that the rating for "dual tire use" is lower than for "single tire use". That is true with any tire manufacturer's specification, not just Towmax. However, it doesn't apply to travel trailers with tandem axles.

paoutlaw · 10-14-2014, 08:39 AM

i was confused on the duel thing because i guess in some applications you could have duel trailer tires on construction type trailers.
ok here we go.my fusion 310 specs from website

please do the math for me i am confused.

Model
Shipping Weight 12065
Carrying Capacity 4010
Hitch 2770
Length 35.7
Height 13.1
Fresh Water 112
Waste Water 43
Gray Water 86
LPG 60
Tire Size 235/80R16E
Type 5th wheel
Region all

CWtheMan · 10-14-2014, 08:48 AM

Your cargo capacity does not match what is on the Keystone specs. Can you tell us what your certification label depicts for GVWR and GAWR?

CW

p.s. As you have it listed your GVWR is 16075# with a total GAWR of 13303#. That would mean the individual certified GAWR is around 6675# per axle. That would mean the vehicle manufacturer could fit tires rated at 3338# to those axles and be within the DOT guidelines, because anything above the 3338 is considered reserve load capacity.

paoutlaw · 10-14-2014, 09:08 AM

http://www.keystonerv.com/previous-y...zion&year=2012
This is where I got my info. If its wrong. I was miss informed.
Im at work now but i will look tonight.
BUt even so I would have to be at the upper limit if not over

**JRTJH** · 10-14-2014, 09:21 AM

Here is the weight placard from a trailer "similar to yours". It's a 2012 Fuzion FZ310, the same model as yours.

If you notice, the GVW is 16500, the axles are rated at 7000 lbs each and they are equipped (from the factory) with ST235/80R16* E/10 tires. These tires have a max weight rating of 3520 each, that's 7040 for each axle. Above (although very slightly) the max rating for the axle.

If you were at maximum GVW, and maximum weight on your axles, the axles would (could) be loaded to carry 14000 lbs and the pin carrying 2500 lbs. That would configure to a pin weight of 15%, well below the recommended 20-25%.

Doing the math, loaded at max GVW with a 20-25% pin weight your pin should weigh 3300-4125. That would put your axle weight at 12375-13200.

That is below your axle maximum rating of 7000 each (14000 for both).

While it may be possible to load enough "stuff" behind your axles to reduce your pin weight below 2500 lbs, I don't think you'll see that configuration when towing.

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