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Old 11-28-2022, 06:24 PM   #1
fstmvrerik
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Different type of hurricane damage

I was present at ground zero for hurricane Ian. Was not able to run away due to road closures and traffic backups making me fear being stuck on highway in a hurricane.
Camper was a total loss, family in shelter house safe.
The camper was our residence, we are now in a rental house.
Now the question: After our camper was hauled off by the wrecker provided by our insurance company, two months go by, we get an email from the camp ground telling us we owe them 4k in damages for what our trailer did being rolled by the hurricane. They state this cannot be taken care of thru insurance and we need to remit a check or card payment by Dec 12th.
Any input?
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Old 11-28-2022, 06:48 PM   #2
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I work in property insurance in all 50 states. What I write below is general information since there are too many variables in this situation. What the campground is doing is highly suspicious. Sort of like a parking lot fender-bender and the other guy saying he will not file a police report if you give him $250.

First thing is that the campground should have insurance and their insurance would be the ones to approach you for any “reimbursement” (its called subrogation). Second, if you have insurance, your policy should have a liability component that would generally cover damages to other people’s property.

I suspect that the campground either has a very high storm deductible, a wind exclusion or no insurance and they are seeking to fill a hole in their bank account and may be trying to prey on an unsuspecting consumer.

Lastly, keep in mind that in order for you to be held liable, you must first be negligent. Negligence is understood to be acting or failing to act knowing that the result of that action or inaction will knowingly lead to damage to other people’s property. It was a hurricane, it’s not like anyone had a way to stop it.

The first call you need to make is to the consumer protection agency or state attorney general’s office and report this situation. The second call should be to your state department of insurance. The third call if needed should be to an attorney that will act on your behalf. I would not recommend paying anything to the campground willingly.
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Old 11-28-2022, 06:55 PM   #3
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You need to do a lot of work. How did the campground determine YOUR trailer did what damage, where and how? Were there other RVs there? What kind of damage did they inflict? Who determined the costs and how? Don't you have liability on the RV? Sounds like you were staying at a place I would wonder about. I would dispute anything they said and require tons of info....as I came after them.

On the other side, with the lead warning time of Ian, even though a tropical storm turned Cat 1 at landfall, there was LOTS of time to move the RV prior to it hitting without closed roads etc. Why sit it out?
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Old 11-29-2022, 03:23 AM   #4
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what happens on Dec 12th if you don’t pay?…could also just be a straight up scam from someone claiming to be the campground….on the other hand did you just abandon the trailer after the storm ? …were you at the campground after or in another state?
i’ve been in quite a few hurricanes and it’s always the owners of flying property that clean it up….i guess NH Bulldog can clarify but if you have a insured rv and you abandon it in a storm and the campground sustains damage from it …i think the campground insurance wouldn’t pay for that…because theoretically the rv owner should claim on his insurance.

so then the campground owner gets denied so now he is going after the rv owner?
kinda like if you run over and damage a pedestal while leaving a campground aren’t you responsible for it..either by cash or insurance?

how many rvs were in the campground during the storm?
i just wonder if the rv was abandoned and the owner turned in to their insurance without consulting with the campground to see what damage the rv may have caused..or been there the next day to see with your own eyes and coordinate the salvage.
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Old 11-29-2022, 08:53 AM   #5
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I WOULD NOT respond a single word to the campground but rather my insurance to handle it that's what a I pay them for, possibly whatever law enforcement agency covering that area as this sounds like a scam to me, possibly a lawyer, the BBB & the local news affiliate.
You might give the name of this place so if/when they rebuild & this doesn't turn out to be a big scam the rest of us can avoid it like the plague if that's the way they want to treat their customers.
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Old 11-29-2022, 12:30 PM   #6
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I would ask for an itemized list of damages with verified replacement cost.

Then I would start contacting consumer groups, I think it smells like fraud.
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Old 11-29-2022, 05:20 PM   #7
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travelin_texans has it right. Turn this over to your insurance company and let them deal with it. If it's legit, they'll know how to handle the situation. If its not legit, they'll let you know and probably advise you on how to move forward. (deleted)....
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Old 11-29-2022, 08:24 PM   #8
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At this time I am not going to post the name of the camp ground until this situation has been sorted out. We have contacted the State Atty. Generals office, and the issue is being forwarded to Consumer affairs. We are still waiting for a response from our insurance adjuster, the insurance has already paid off the trailer loss, but we have told them about this new development. For clarity here is some more overall information.
We are having a house built in the area and have been living in out TT at this RV park for nearly 2 years. We consider the staff and general manager as friends. Before the storm we were prepared to travel north to evacuate, as the prediction shifted further north and we were about 180 miles from landfall, and out of all flood areas we decided to stay put. At this time over 90 RVs had pulled into the park to weather the storm. The morning of the storm it was advised that Ian had made a hard 90% turn towards us, I had the trailer hooked up and we were about to pull out, a friend called us and advised that I75 was at a stand still and he had traveled about 8 miles in 45 minutes. The other 2 routes were closed due to flooding from the prior weeks rain. I75 was not going to be turned into one way traffic as the storm track was still to unpredictable. I knew the RV park has a storm shelter built to withstand a cat 5 storm. So I decided not to risk being stuck on the roads as the winds were already over 40mph at 10:00am. We gathered up the dogs and some paperwork items and went to the shelter. We then watched the storm disassemble the RV park flipping nearly every trailer, each rolling multiple times. After the storm we were allowed to stay in the club house for 4 days, to try to recover anything we could from our rigs. After that we found a motel 100 miles north and drove back and forth daily helping friends also recover from the storm. It took about 3 weeks for our insurance to arrange for a tow service to remove what was left of our TT. We were in contact daily with the RV park until our rig was removed and nothing was said to us about additional costs.
In hind sight I now know I should have made arraignments to evacuate both north and south, and to get out 36 hours before the storm, won't make that mistake again.
There is information online advising to fill all your tanks to the brim and to turn your rig aligned with the wind, we did all of this, there is also advice to leave your TV hooked to your rig (do not do this as both will roll). I was originally from Kansas and had camped, or had my rig stored in 60-70 mph winds on several occasions. I had my rig as low as possible and all leveling legs and stabilizers down, slides in and wheels chocked with my BalX wheel chocks. The smaller rigs started to roll when the winds went over 90mph. My rig was really heavy, we were storing a lot of household goods so the weight was over 12k, it rolled at about 125mph winds, the class A pushers rolled at about 150mph winds.
I did notice after Ian when hurricane Nicole hit the east coat of Florida all RV and trailer houses were under mandatory evacuation. The only mandatory evacuation issued for Ian in Charlotte county was for storm surge and flood zone areas. Again next time I am down the road till it passes.
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Old 11-30-2022, 07:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstmvrerik View Post
At this time I am not going to post the name of the camp ground until this situation has been sorted out. We have contacted the State Atty. Generals office, and the issue is being forwarded to Consumer affairs. We are still waiting for a response from our insurance adjuster, the insurance has already paid off the trailer loss, but we have told them about this new development. For clarity here is some more overall information.
We are having a house built in the area and have been living in out TT at this RV park for nearly 2 years. We consider the staff and general manager as friends. Before the storm we were prepared to travel north to evacuate, as the prediction shifted further north and we were about 180 miles from landfall, and out of all flood areas we decided to stay put. At this time over 90 RVs had pulled into the park to weather the storm. The morning of the storm it was advised that Ian had made a hard 90% turn towards us, I had the trailer hooked up and we were about to pull out, a friend called us and advised that I75 was at a stand still and he had traveled about 8 miles in 45 minutes. The other 2 routes were closed due to flooding from the prior weeks rain. I75 was not going to be turned into one way traffic as the storm track was still to unpredictable. I knew the RV park has a storm shelter built to withstand a cat 5 storm. So I decided not to risk being stuck on the roads as the winds were already over 40mph at 10:00am. We gathered up the dogs and some paperwork items and went to the shelter. We then watched the storm disassemble the RV park flipping nearly every trailer, each rolling multiple times. After the storm we were allowed to stay in the club house for 4 days, to try to recover anything we could from our rigs. After that we found a motel 100 miles north and drove back and forth daily helping friends also recover from the storm. It took about 3 weeks for our insurance to arrange for a tow service to remove what was left of our TT. We were in contact daily with the RV park until our rig was removed and nothing was said to us about additional costs.
In hind sight I now know I should have made arraignments to evacuate both north and south, and to get out 36 hours before the storm, won't make that mistake again.
There is information online advising to fill all your tanks to the brim and to turn your rig aligned with the wind, we did all of this, there is also advice to leave your TV hooked to your rig (do not do this as both will roll). I was originally from Kansas and had camped, or had my rig stored in 60-70 mph winds on several occasions. I had my rig as low as possible and all leveling legs and stabilizers down, slides in and wheels chocked with my BalX wheel chocks. The smaller rigs started to roll when the winds went over 90mph. My rig was really heavy, we were storing a lot of household goods so the weight was over 12k, it rolled at about 125mph winds, the class A pushers rolled at about 150mph winds.
I did notice after Ian when hurricane Nicole hit the east coat of Florida all RV and trailer houses were under mandatory evacuation. The only mandatory evacuation issued for Ian in Charlotte county was for storm surge and flood zone areas. Again next time I am down the road till it passes.
Have you talked to any others that rode it out there?
Are they being charged the same for damages their rig caused?
If so 90 rvs at $4k a piece that park owner wouldn't need insurance to rebuild or they'll take that $$ & retire in the Bahamas.
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Old 11-30-2022, 08:27 AM   #10
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I am sorry for your loss and this new development. It sure smells to me. With your description of the event I would have a slew of questions for the owners of the park, friends or not friends. If all the RVs were rolling about HOW do they know YOU caused 4k in damages? How did they assess that? It sounds more like they don't have insurance and they want the RVs that were in the park to pony up and pay their damages. Can't use insurance? I figure not since they have no way to prove their claims.

If I were you I would get together with the folks in the park and confront the owner together. Let them know that you all will refuse to pay and see them in court - the RV owners can pool their resources, the park owner can pull it out of his own pocket. The email you received took the "friends" part out of the equation.
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Old 11-30-2022, 03:57 PM   #11
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if it is the campground trying to collect from everyone it definitely seems wrong.
I will say we are only hearing one side of the argument so i’d hate to see a business owner get publicly smeared without knowing both sides of the story.

In this day and age businesses seem to be presumed guilty until proven innocent.

I’m not saying the op is being anything but truthful but just always feel it’s fair to hear both sides.

It is plausible that the campground does not have hurricane insurance because even getting that on a home is very difficult in Florida …i can’t imagine any buisness policy covering damage either to or from a rv that’s rolling around inside a campground.
The campground hurricane shelter. and people are possibly covered in a general buisness liability policy but property probably not…any other structures not built to hurricane rated code probably are not.

i know a few people in my neighborhood that have second small homes in florida and two of them do not have any insurance as they paid cash for the houses and could not get a policy unless they made major upgrades…primarily roof related or paid exorbitant prices.

so many insurance company’s cancelled policy’s in the last couple of years down there or are forcing people to replace roofs if over 8-10 years old …policy’s prices tripled on some people before the hurricane season even started.

Not an excuse for a business…but i can see where a family campground may get parts of a policy cancelled or raised so high to make it cost prohibitive to keep…they operate on the minimum liability by law.

i could see where rolling rvs could tear out electrical pedestals and cause thousands of dollars of damage that was probably a one in a million possibility…then the county wants everything brought up to present day codes to pass inspection…can be hard to be a small business sometimes
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Old 11-30-2022, 04:33 PM   #12
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You are right. I initially was going to buy a home here on the FL coast instead of RVing here. I was amazed at the number of homes for sale without insurance...and I could have done the same if I bought cash, which I intended to do, BUT I could not get insurance unless I spent more than the cost of the property on upgrades to meet the current codes - I passed - I would have needed to build a new home and I didn't need another.

It sure sounds like an RV campground owner that left his backside exposed and now wants someone else to pay for his "oversight", "cheapness", or ?? The campground insurance pays for all the damages they received from the hurricane...not all the tenants that were there at the time. If they have no insurance they have to dig into their pockets, not someone else's. IF they had no insurance and are now trying to skim those that were there, that's inexcusable - and those there have no obligation to "make the campground whole" - that is on the owner. This campground was inundated by hurricane Michael. Everything was under 5' of water; utilities, office, laundry, bath house etc. It was uninsured. The owner himself paid for all the reparations, he didn't try to scam those that were still in the park to cover his losses.

We may be hearing only one side of the story but the actions of the campground owners shout impropriety. Hopefully OP gets it squared away to their satisfaction.
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Old 11-30-2022, 04:51 PM   #13
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yes hopefully it’s resolved amicably…curious if the op received a good payout for the rv or if there was so many claims that everyone is getting less then normal.

also if you bought a rv at a high markup during the pandemic if they are paying post pandemic dropping market prices for insurance claims.

and forgive me for trying to defend a business owner but i’ve seen what social media can do to small businesses with only part of the story….everyone has a voice on the internet and sometimes the business is the last to find out and by then it’s too late.

this one does seem like the campground is wrong
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Old 11-30-2022, 05:56 PM   #14
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yes hopefully it’s resolved amicably…curious if the op received a good payout for the rv or if there was so many claims that everyone is getting less then normal.

also if you bought a rv at a high markup during the pandemic if they are paying post pandemic dropping market prices for insurance claims.

and forgive me for trying to defend a business owner but i’ve seen what social media can do to small businesses with only part of the story….everyone has a voice on the internet and sometimes the business is the last to find out and by then it’s too late.

this one does seem like the campground is wrong

I try to be objective about most everything if possible. Having been in the position of running a business, and also a regular person/consumer, I try not to jump to one side or the other. Although it seems the story is one sided the facts as we've been told so far seem to support the suspicions we've commented on. I can't see how the campground has any grounds to assess damages against anyone; hopefully the OP will fill us in with more details.
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Old 11-30-2022, 06:02 PM   #15
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yep ...on another note i guess we can probably figure on campground prices rising in some parts of Florida if they haven’t already done so?
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:29 AM   #16
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Campground prices are rising in all parts of Florida. We have been here for a few years and our rates remain the same. Only newbies pay the new rate. Not so in all the parks.
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Old 12-04-2022, 10:18 AM   #17
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Act of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstmvrerik View Post
I was present at ground zero for hurricane Ian. Was not able to run away due to road closures and traffic backups making me fear being stuck on highway in a hurricane.
Camper was a total loss, family in shelter house safe.
The camper was our residence, we are now in a rental house.
Now the question: After our camper was hauled off by the wrecker provided by our insurance company, two months go by, we get an email from the camp ground telling us we owe them 4k in damages for what our trailer did being rolled by the hurricane. They state this cannot be taken care of thru insurance and we need to remit a check or card payment by Dec 12th.
Any input?
The damage incurred by the park was an Act of God, they should have insurance for that issue, not you. Your property or negligence, your insurance, their property, or negligence their issue.
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Old 12-04-2022, 10:41 AM   #18
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Sounds like a scam for sure. I didn't see where you contacted the insurance commissioner but they may want to look into this too.


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Old 12-04-2022, 12:24 PM   #19
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yes hopefully it’s resolved amicably…curious if the op received a good payout for the rv or if there was so many claims that everyone is getting less then normal.

....
This is exactly why we carry "Replacement Insurance" on all our properties: Camper, house, auto's. We pay a little more for "Replacement" but in the event of a total loss, the insurance company has to pay the price for a "replacement". That means, if my 2019 Montana gets completely demolished, "they" have to replace it with another 2019 Montana. It's just that simple. We don't get "cash", we get a replacement. I certainly hope I never have to use it though!
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Old 12-04-2022, 01:44 PM   #20
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That’s not replacement cost though, that’s actual cash value. Replacement cost is replacement of your 2019 RV with a new RV of the current model year at current market cost. Even then, it is a benefit limited to typically the first 3 years after it was bought new. Also “they” don’t locate and buy you the replacement, they give you the money and you do all the work to find and buy what you can find with the money they give you.

It might be worth stopping in to your agent’s office and having a chat about what you are actually covered for in order to avoid surprises.
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