Propane versus Electric Heat

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

We are looking forward to our next outing this coming week. The weather is expected to be only down to the mid 40's in the mornings. Up to about mid 60's for a high. Oh heck yeah!! Perfect weather! We bought our Alpine 3650RL in December of 2020 and to date we have only used ONE tank of propane due to our installation of an electric water heater and an electric central heat unit. These are two UPGRADES that others might want to consider to improve their camping experience. We only camp at sites that have 50 amp shore power. Certainly not a "boondocking" option. Some may have called my Alpine Custom Upgrades to be a "hack job" with ZERO resale value but I am betting that a LOT of RVr's would LOVE to enjoy these comforts.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Alpine Custom Upgrade

We are looking forward to our next outing this coming week. The weather is expected to be only down to the mid 40's in the mornings. Up to about mid 60's for a high. Oh heck yeah!! Perfect weather! We bought our Alpine 3650RL in December of 2020 and to date we have only used ONE tank of propane due to our installation of an electric water heater and an electric central heat unit. These are two UPGRADES that others might want to consider to improve their camping experience. We only camp at sites that have 50 amp shore power. Certainly not a "boondocking" option. Some may have called my Alpine Custom Upgrades to be a "hack job" with ZERO resale value but I am betting that a LOT of RVr's would LOVE to enjoy these comforts.

We run LP and/or electric. There is a point that running all electric in a campground is the more expensive option. Opting, or making oneself entirely dependent, for electric service only is not a good decision. Many private parks charge what THEY want per kwh, not the local company, and some are exhorbitant. Cost vs return....that is what is important and the reasons for "this or that" varies from each individual. As for LP usage, we use little to none but that is dependent on what appliances one uses, if you cook inside etc. etc. - personal preferences, habits etc.

[rhagfo]

We keep options open. We have Cheap Heat electric add on unit from RV Comfort systems, so furnace runs gas or electric. I still like a gas/ electric hot water tank. Just this morning we were seeing low voltage and when furnace and HW tank were on leg two dropped below103 volts tripping EMS. just turned off breaker.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by sourdough

We run LP and/or electric. There is a point that running all electric in a campground is the more expensive option. Opting, or making oneself entirely dependent, for electric service only is not a good decision. Many private parks charge what THEY want per kwh, not the local company, and some are exhorbitant. Cost vs return....that is what is important and the reasons for "this or that" varies from each individual. As for LP usage, we use little to none but that is dependent on what appliances one uses, if you cook inside etc. etc. - personal preferences, habits etc.

I have only camped in one campground (Houston) that charged for electricity so if someone (like myself) doesn't camp in campgrounds that charge for electricity I keep in mind I am the one that pays for propane. Propane is getting more expensive and the old I get the heavier those tanks have become. We use propane to heat water and cook on the stove and if it get REAL cold (under 40F in the AM) I may turn on our furnace to take the chill off. We use an electric heater otherwise. I have never run our furnace for more than about 1/2 hour. If its 40F outside the little electric heater keeps th cabin above 60F.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

We keep options open. We have Cheap Heat electric add on unit from RV Comfort systems, so furnace runs gas or electric. I still like a gas/ electric hot water tank. Just this morning we were seeing low voltage and when furnace and HW tank were on leg two dropped below103 volts tripping EMS. just turned off breaker.

Russ could you post a picture of the electric data label they gave you for the cheap heat? it should be one that you affix somewhere close to the cheap heat or on the cheap heat itself.
just curious what kw heater they use on a 50 amp service

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Russ could you post a picture of the electric data label they gave you for the cheap heat? it should be one that you affix somewhere close to the cheap heat or on the cheap heat itself.
just curious what kw heater they use on a 50 amp service

The heater puts out 5,000 watts of heat on a 240 volt 30 amp circuit typically draws about 22 amps on both legs.

https://www.rvcomfortsystems.com

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

The heater puts out 5,000 watts of heat on a 240 volt 30 amp circuit typically draws about 22 amps on both legs.

https://www.rvcomfortsystems.com

ok i see what 5hey have now thanks

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by jasin1

ok i see what 5hey have now thanks

Not “Cheap” to purchase, I did my install as I needed to make a 2” spacer to get the control out behind a cabinet stile.
Heat controlled by same T-states when on gas.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Not “Cheap” to purchase, I did my install as I needed to make a 2” spacer to get the control out behind a cabinet stile.
Heat controlled by same T-states when on gas.

yeah i install electric heaters in air handlers for heat pump systems on a regular basis..i could get a 5 kw heater for less then $100…

tempting but the cheap heat is a nice one piece package

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

Originally Posted by jasin1

yeah i install electric heaters in air handlers for heat pump systems on a regular basis..i could get a 5 kw heater for less then $100…

tempting but the cheap heat is a nice one piece package

The Cheap Heat is certainly a viable option as a way to reduce propane usage in cold weather. I have never been in a park that charged extra for electricity. I created a "one off" for me unit that is a stand alone unit, not connected to the factory heat at all and is not tied into my floor ducts because we have rugs on the floor that cover the floor vents. My little heater is 5,400 watts and pulls 22 amps on 240 volts. I do not sell them or offer them for sale but it can be done. I think I have less than $400 dollars in mine. Runs at 45% capacity when keeping the inside at 74 degrees when it is 32 degrees outside. Cycles on and off with its own wall thermostat. We have a 38 foot Alpine 3650RL. But then again, some people would call it a "hack job" that causes a $100,000 RV to drop to ZERO resale value.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Alpine Custom Upgrade

The Cheap Heat is certainly a viable option as a way to reduce propane usage in cold weather. I have never been in a park that charged extra for electricity. I created a "one off" for me unit that is a stand alone unit, not connected to the factory heat at all and is not tied into my floor ducts because we have rugs on the floor that cover the floor vents. My little heater is 5,400 watts and pulls 22 amps on 240 volts. I do not sell them or offer them for sale but it can be done. I think I have less than $400 dollars in mine. Runs at 45% capacity when keeping the inside at 74 degrees when it is 32 degrees outside. Cycles on and off with its own wall thermostat. We have a 38 foot Alpine 3650RL. But then again, some people would call it a "hack job" that causes a $100,000 RV to drop to ZERO resale value.

The beauty of Cheap Heat is a single T-stat, heat through the duct work, keeping pipes heated. Simple flick of the switch to go to propane.

One little fix I would like to address, if power goes out in the middle of the night it doesn’t switch to propane.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Alpine Custom Upgrade

The Cheap Heat is certainly a viable option as a way to reduce propane usage in cold weather. I have never been in a park that charged extra for electricity. I created a "one off" for me unit that is a stand alone unit, not connected to the factory heat at all and is not tied into my floor ducts because we have rugs on the floor that cover the floor vents. My little heater is 5,400 watts and pulls 22 amps on 240 volts. I do not sell them or offer them for sale but it can be done. I think I have less than $400 dollars in mine. Runs at 45% capacity when keeping the inside at 74 degrees when it is 32 degrees outside. Cycles on and off with its own wall thermostat. We have a 38 foot Alpine 3650RL. But then again, some people would call it a "hack job" that causes a $100,000 RV to drop to ZERO resale value.

If a person stays short term the electricity is generally included in the price...daily price is highest, week is next - both generally include electricity. When staying for a month or longer the rate drops dramatically but the power usage is then calculated as a separate charge. To us it doesn't matter, I can stay a month, cost of power included, for about the same price as 2 weeks in many places. It's just how you skin the cat and how much time you have to skin it.

[notanlines]

Barry, "But then again, some people would call it a "hack job" You've used that phrase before. Any particular reason? I don't believe anyone here said that. It probably isn't a usual modification done by average owners, but you like it. That is what matters.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Alpine Custom Upgrade

The Cheap Heat is certainly a viable option as a way to reduce propane usage in cold weather. I have never been in a park that charged extra for electricity. I created a "one off" for me unit that is a stand alone unit, not connected to the factory heat at all and is not tied into my floor ducts because we have rugs on the floor that cover the floor vents. My little heater is 5,400 watts and pulls 22 amps on 240 volts. I do not sell them or offer them for sale but it can be done. I think I have less than $400 dollars in mine. Runs at 45% capacity when keeping the inside at 74 degrees when it is 32 degrees outside. Cycles on and off with its own wall thermostat. We have a 38 foot Alpine 3650RL. But then again, some people would call it a "hack job" that causes a $100,000 RV to drop to ZERO resale value.

Don't get sensitive to the "hack job" crowd. Your camper so do as you see fit. I have made so many modifications to my old 5th wheel that I am sure it would be considered a major hack job.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Don't get sensitive to the "hack job" crowd. Your camper so do as you see fit. I have made so many modifications to my old 5th wheel that I am sure it would be considered a major hack job.

Hack jobs?? I call them custom mods. Many decades ago in my younger years I could REALLY make some hack jobs given my low patience level. Nowadays I try to take care, take more time and spend more money to make it right so when I step back and look I think it's a fine mod!! As you said, if one wants to do it, and likes the outcome, so be it - fine mod.

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Hack jobs?? I call them custom mods. Many decades ago in my younger years I could REALLY make some hack jobs given my low patience level. Nowadays I try to take care, take more time and spend more money to make it right so when I step back and look I think it's a fine mod!! As you said, if one wants to do it, and likes the outcome, so be it - fine mod.

So true. A craftsman does stand back at the end of a project and admire his work. My custom mods do exactly what I want them to do. I fully expect that if more people had the skills to do my mods to their rv that they certainly would do so whether their rv is 18 years old or brand new showroom. I did the electric water heater install two weeks from brand new. I did the electric central heat that fall. I have had several people ask what parts they needed to do my mods to theirs, so I guess my mods are not THAT off the wall. Like you said, it is mine and it is what I want it to be and I am proud of my work.

[jasin1]

i would make my own and tie it into the ductwork probably…i wouldn’t want to instruct someone how unless they were very proficient in electrical standards and safe practices

i’ve seen quite a few electric heaters that completely burned up at the heater controls..and the wires and controls catch on fire inside the air handler….either by loose screw connectors or worse when someone uses wire nuts for high amp draw connections….also no aluminum conductors

if you have one either homebuilt or manufacturered i’d take a look at all the connections periodically and make sure they are tight from bouncing down the road..they heat up and cool down from high amp draw and can get loose over time….that’s when they really get hot and can melt or catch fire.
if you have ever worked in a electric panel you often find you can get a quarter turn on breaker screws or the breaker itself feels hot.

i prefer screw lug electric disconnects for wiring points at the appliance and/or split bolt connectors

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

Originally Posted by jasin1

i would make my own and tie it into the ductwork probably…i wouldn’t want to instruct someone how unless they were very proficient in electrical standards and safe practices

i’ve seen quite a few electric heaters that completely burned up at the heater controls..and the wires and controls catch on fire inside the air handler….either by loose screw connectors or worse when someone uses wire nuts for high amp draw connections….also no aluminum conductors

if you have one either homebuilt or manufacturered i’d take a look at all the connections periodically and make sure they are tight from bouncing down the road..they heat up and cool down from high amp draw and can get loose over time….that’s when they really get hot and can melt or catch fire.
if you have ever worked in a electric panel you often find you can get a quarter turn on breaker screws or the breaker itself feels hot.

i prefer screw lug electric disconnects for wiring points at the appliance and/or split bolt connectors

Yes Sir, I totally get it. I have worked in MANY an electrical panel, hot or not, 240 single phase to 460 three phase and everything in between. Well, except for 380, and have seen the same things that you mentioned. I have also found the same warm breaker and a screw that needs tightening. I also do not believe in a wire nut on a high amp draw circuit. I do not use split bolt because I prefer Polaris connectors on #6 wires and larger. Not a beginner here. The highest amp draw on my electric 5,400 watt/240 volt central heat unit is 23 amps on a #10 wire on a 30 amp breaker through a sub-panel connected inline with the main feed #6 cable. We find loose connections at the breakers and even receptacles quite often that need a little tightening. It is my standard practice to check the tightness at the breaker every time we open a panel. Part of doing electrical work. Good to visit with you about these issues and thanks for the reminders.

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

Originally Posted by jasin1

i would make my own and tie it into the ductwork probably…i wouldn’t want to instruct someone how unless they were very proficient in electrical standards and safe practices

i’ve seen quite a few electric heaters that completely burned up at the heater controls..and the wires and controls catch on fire inside the air handler….either by loose screw connectors or worse when someone uses wire nuts for high amp draw connections….also no aluminum conductors

if you have one either homebuilt or manufacturered i’d take a look at all the connections periodically and make sure they are tight from bouncing down the road..they heat up and cool down from high amp draw and can get loose over time….that’s when they really get hot and can melt or catch fire.
if you have ever worked in a electric panel you often find you can get a quarter turn on breaker screws or the breaker itself feels hot.

i prefer screw lug electric disconnects for wiring points at the appliance and/or split bolt connectors

Oh, and I would never even begin to instruct someone how to do anything because of the liability factor. AND I have indeed seen burned, even obvious flames evidence, of a burned connection or the insulation melted back a couple of inches and the copper conductor crystalized and even the breaker screw terminal melted so bad that the breaker lug was melted out. Oh yes. Been there and seen that.

[jasin1]

sounds like you got it covered …good deal