Help pairing truck and trailer

[tjd2003]

Hello all. I am looking to make the switch from travel trailer to fifth wheel and will be upgrading my truck in the process. I’m wanting to purchase a 2024 2500 Silverado with the 6.6 gas engine and 10 speed. I would be open to a 3500 srw as well, but not want a dually. I would prefer to stay with gas as well. We travel about once maybe twice a month, mostly flat ground throughout the south. I had initially wanted the cougar 29mbs for the bonus bunk room for my son. My local dealer has a killer deal on a Montana high country 335bh. Trailer is 37ft long, 2400 pin weight and 16k gvwr. I’ve never had a fifth wheel so I’m not knowledgeable on how much that pin weight will increase once loaded. Will this be too much for the truck I’m wanting? Thanks in advance.

[travelin texans]

If the Montana listed is your choice skip the 2500 it won't have enough payload, go with a 3500. A 5th with a GVWR of 16k will have a pin weight well north of 3k.
A 5er that heavy behind a gasser, regardless if a 2500 or 3500, will require plenty of fuel, so be prepared for 6-7 mpg.

[fjr vfr]

Agree with the above comment. Your total payload will be close to 4k if not over. Some people do it with a 2500, but since you don't already have the truck, agree again, skip right to a 3500.
Also same about the gas motor, you'll be much happier with a diesel and not just because double the fuel economy, but also the whole towing experience.

[hondapro87]

No question, Skip the 2500 and go for the 3500,
I also agree that you will be much happier with the diesel.

[Camping family]

Go with the 1 ton srw you will not see much difference in price. I upgraded from a f250 to a 350. As for price 1,000 difference. Went with the 7.3 10 speed don’t see any difference in gas’s mileage. Ride don’t see a difference.
As for the diesel over gas while guess that’s a personal preference. I have had both diesel for more years then gas. But with the higher cost 10,000 for diesel, then 2.00 more a gallon for fuel and the 300.00 oil change maintenance. I changed to gas. May not have the pulling power of a diesel but for what I used it for I am very happy.

[jasin1]

a few people have gas 3500s towing maybe they can chime in on numbers…i’d
like to pay the gas prices vs diesel right about now

[rhagfo]

Yep, 3500 for sure, gas with a 10 speed might work ok, but would likely be thirsty.

[Skillet173]

If mostly flat towing you may be happy with gas. Any hills and the diesel will be better choice. Personally with my 20k tri axle 5er and mountain region towing I like the set cruise at 65 and go up/down at 65 with little/no effort!

[sourdough]

See my signature. By stipulating a gas engine we can do away with the gas vs diesel unending conversation (thankfully).

Don't even think about a 3/4 ton to tow a 5th wheel; I had one (2014 gas) and would not purchase a 5th wheel due to the limitations of the truck suspension (3190 payload), gearing (3.73) and transmission (6 speed). Each one of those issues was enough to eliminate a 5th wheel by itself but in combination it just couldn't happen.

You will want a 1 ton SRW with a minimum payload of 4k lbs. That will have to be a gas truck. You cannot run 3.73 gears or a 6 speed as it cuts the performance capability of the truck too much. You do not want a trailer with a gvw over 14k with that gas engine combo, it just doesn't have the "guts" to pull hills etc. You can buy a 1 ton srw with a different drivetrain combo and make the trailer roll but you can't "tow" it with confidence or without thinking you're going to send the pistons through the block.

The comment about the higher numbers of gears in the tranny is spot on. I had the 6.4L, 3.73, 6 speed previously and this one is the 6.4L, 4.10, 8 speed....NO comparison at all - huge towing difference. Be aware of what you are looking at in a new truck; Ram will have what I listed but you will probably have to look pretty hard for the 4.10....don't get anything other option with a Ram. I was looking at a GM truck the other day because they advertise more torque (464 I believe) BUT the highest ratio they offer was 3.73 and the only tranny was a 6 speed so you lose as much or more than the additional torque (on paper) would offer. Ford has the 7.3L gas engine with a 10 speed and an available 4.30 axle....THAT is the truck I would get (and might) but think they've now raised the height of the bed for unknown reasons so high that it would be useless to me.

Gas mileage for a gas truck will be less than a diesel which is a consideration for some. To me, I don't care. I like all the conveniences a gas engine offers "me" and my tastes, plus, who really cares when you're talking slight differences in the 7-8 mpg. range anyway?

Lots of considerations when looking at a larger trailer and towing with a gas truck. First, forget anything in the 16k range, stick with that 14k max (loaded less). And remember, there is a conundrum with a gas engine in a big truck trying to tow a large load - the gas engine will provide a larger payload allowing a considerably larger load, so much larger that the limitations of the gas engine will hamper your towing ability and cause you grief. You have to know where that delta is to get the max towing experience and the max from the engine without overloading it or giving it an extremely short life.

[tjd2003]

Thank you all for the replies. As much as I'd like to get that Montana, I think I may have to stay with the Cougar. I think that 29MBS will be much better suited for a gas powertrain. Shorter, lighter, and a much lower pin weight.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by tjd2003

Thank you all for the replies. As much as I'd like to get that Montana, I think I may have to stay with the Cougar. I think that 29MBS will be much better suited for a gas powertrain. Shorter, lighter, and a much lower pin weight.

You in Jonesboro Arkansas? My recollection is that there are a few hills to your west if you head that way with a camper. Perhaps no one has pointed out that the published pin weights are fairy tales and your actual pin weigh with the Montana will be north of 4000 lbs with hitch and passenger so the Cougar makes a lot more sense. Get the one ton in any case. Hopefully fuel prices will moderate within a couple years (such as after 2024) and gas or diesel won't be such a large consideration but my crystal ball remains foggy on that issue. Good luck.

[Camp CA]

Originally Posted by tjd2003

.......Trailer is 37ft long, 2400 pin weight and 16k gvwr. I’ve never had a fifth wheel so I’m not knowledgeable on how much that pin weight will increase once loaded. Will this be too much for the truck I’m wanting?............

My experience towing fifth wheel trailers for 18 years with this GVWR is a diesel is the best option..........yes you can tow it with a gas truck but wiill it be safe?.........cannot beat the exhaust brake in heavy traffic on the flats plus on down grades and uphill torque. Also, expect the pin weight to be ~3500 lbs for 16000 lb trailer based on my experience weighing at a scale.

[Harry Comes]

yes you can tow it with a gas truck but wiill it be safe?.........


A gas truck is no more dangerous towing than a diesel. Plus a gas truck will have a higher payload. As far a mileage, my 2022 f350 7.3 gets 10.5 mpg towing a 32' 5th wheel or my 25' enclosed trailer that is 7' tall at door opening. My buddy with his 2017 f350 6 7 diesel gets 10.5 mpg towing a 24' travel trailer or my 25' enclosed. I don't see the $10k advantage of going diesel. Knowing how to down shift and having working trailer brakes go along way.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by Harry Comes

yes you can tow it with a gas truck but wiill it be safe?.........


A gas truck is no more dangerous towing than a diesel. Plus a gas truck will have a higher payload. As far a mileage, my 2022 f350 7.3 gets 10.5 mpg towing a 32' 5th wheel or my 25' enclosed trailer that is 7' tall at door opening. My buddy with his 2017 f350 6 7 diesel gets 10.5 mpg towing a 24' travel trailer or my 25' enclosed. I don't see the $10k advantage of going diesel. Knowing how to down shift and having working trailer brakes go along way.

What I encounter is gas powered trucks hauling large RV's (among other things) that are unable to maintain the posted speed limit on the steeper (and not so steep) grades. I'm driving a semi up a mountain at the speed limit and having to change lanes and/or slow down because the slower traffic refuses to move to the right. Somewhere down the line it is perceived that you can drive in whatever lane you choose and drive at whatever speed you desire. Then, when the 80,000 pound semi behind you loses momentum and slows to 35 mph, everyone driving cars is cursing us for being in their way.

Yes, a gas truck will have a higher payload. It will also have less ability to pull that higher payload at highway speeds on grades due to having less horsepower and torque.

The difference (gas vs diesel) is that the diesel torque will hold the speed on the grades. Regardless of the price difference and whether or not you consider it a dangerous situation to impede the traffic flow due to your (gas) inability to maintain the speed is something you'll have to determine I suppose.

Yes. it's the old gas vs diesel comparison. It's a choice that many disagree on. If you can't afford a diesel or if you haven't ever driven one you probably won't understand the difference. And many just don't want one for whatever reason. And that's ok.....

But please, if you can't maintain the speed posted, at least move to the right lane.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by tjd2003

I would prefer to stay with gas as well.

Above is the OP's comment in the first post. Below is my comment from post 9:

"By stipulating a gas engine we can do away with the gas vs diesel unending conversation (thankfully)."

In post #10 the OP said he had made the choice to stick with what he had. Now the thread is trying to start a life of its own beginning the diesel vs gas never ending conversation. They each have their benefits and each person has a preference....but that's not what this thread was about.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Above is the OP's comment in the first post. Below is my comment from post 9:

"By stipulating a gas engine we can do away with the gas vs diesel unending conversation (thankfully)."

In post #10 the OP said he had made the choice to stick with what he had. Now the thread is trying to start a life of its own beginning the diesel vs gas never ending conversation. They each have their benefits and each person has a preference....but that's not what this thread was about.

Well he isn’t sticking with what he has, he is going to stick with the Cougar 1/2 ton he was first looking at.
This will allow him to use a newer GM “2500” with GVWR over 10,000#, feeling he should have enough payload.
I would still strongly suggest that he step up to a 3500 for excessive payload

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well he isn’t sticking with what he has, he is going to stick with the Cougar 1/2 ton he was first looking at.
This will allow him to use a newer GM “2500” with GVWR over 10,000#, feeling he should have enough payload.
I would still strongly suggest that he step up to a 3500 for excessive payload

Russ let me clarify for you; no, he isn't sticking with "what he has", he is sticking with his original plan (what he "had been looking at") sans Montana. The 29MBS has a gvwr of 11k. His original post said he was "looking" at a 2500 but was open to a 3500. Everyone has pretty much said he needed a 3500 for a bigger rig. His LAST post said he was going to stick with the Cougar because he thought it would fit better with a gas powertrain. He didn't say "new and improved 2500"....just gas powertrain.

[tjd2003]

I don’t have a fifth wheel at this time. I currently have a small travel trailer and an f-150. I bought the travel trailer last year and have disliked it since we bought it. I was initially looking at the 29MBS because of the size and features it packed into that size. My local dealer has a 2022 Montana 335BH discounted 30k and at that point is within $10k of the Cougar. My reason for asking the question I did is I’m trying to buy a truck/camper combo that will fit my needs to the point I won’t want to trade either anytime soon. I think I’ve made my mind up on the 29MBS. I AM still between the 2500/3500 and honestly still debating gas or diesel but I do realize that’s a rabbit hole. As I said before, this is all new territory to me and I really don’t want to buy another truck after I buy this next one. Thanks for all the input on my question. It’s greatly appreciated!

[NH_Bulldog]

I am happy with my 7.3L gas with 10 speed and everything I have towed with it is quite comfortable and I can maintain speed going up hills. That thing is truly Godzilla). I hauled my brother’s Fuzion Impact 367 for him and it handled really nice while still getting 8.9 mpg. Once his truck came in (3500 Sierra HD with 6.6L gas and 6 speed) he found it needed an airbag kit and he was only able to get 6.4 mpg. So there are a lot of variables involved between brands, engines, transmissions, fuel type, etc.

Regardless, I would go with nothing less than a 1-ton for any fifth wheel, even the supposed “half-ton” fifth wheels. Gas or diesel is another discussion with VERY passionate opinions on both sides of the argument. Don’t let anyone spend your money for you. Make an informed decision because you are the one that has to live with it for the next however many years.

[Harry Comes]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

What I encounter is gas powered trucks hauling large RV's (among other things) that are unable to maintain the posted speed limit on the steeper (and not so steep) grades. I'm driving a semi up a mountain at the speed limit and having to change lanes and/or slow down because the slower traffic refuses to move to the right. Somewhere down the line it is perceived that you can drive in whatever lane you choose and drive at whatever speed you desire. Then, when the 80,000 pound semi behind you loses momentum and slows to 35 mph, everyone driving cars is cursing us for being in their way.

Yes, a gas truck will have a higher payload. It will also have less ability to pull that higher payload at highway speeds on grades due to having less horsepower and torque.

The difference (gas vs diesel) is that the diesel torque will hold the speed on the grades. Regardless of the price difference and whether or not you consider it a dangerous situation to impede the traffic flow due to your (gas) inability to maintain the speed is something you'll have to determine I suppose.

Yes. it's the old gas vs diesel comparison. It's a choice that many disagree on. If you can't afford a diesel or if you haven't ever driven one you probably won't understand the difference. And many just don't want one for whatever reason. And that's ok.....

But please, if you can't maintain the speed posted, at least move to the right lane.

Maybe a gasser from the 90's. I have no issue passing semi's on large hills. The ford 7.3 with the 10 speed trans keeps the rpms under 4200 rpms even when climbing. I've never had an issue keeping speed at or above the speed limit. Im also not pulling a 42' 16k trailer. Unless you have spent time in the latest generation of gas motors, you have no idea.