Signatures?

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Will the “owners” of the forum may have may have made the change, but I am sure it was at the urging of members of the sight team.

I don’t see the need for requiring a signature, I don’t know of any other forum that requires a signature.

How many times has there been a post stating "my furnace won't light, any suggestions?" & nothing more to go on? There are those that would be more than happy to offer help, but Keystone has & does manufacturer about a million makes & models so then it's about a half dozen post or more of guessing before the OP comes back with what rv or what brand of furnace they're talking about.
A simple easy to do signature is very helpful in offering useful pertinent advice.
Honestly I can't see how it could be invading anyone's privacy or asking any secret information?
Year, make & model of your rv & tow vehicle is ALL that's needed, it's up to that person whether to post anymore than that.
If they are afraid of the weight police then quite possibly there's a reason they should be. But as others have stated if I see an obvious issue with an inappropriate setup I am going to point it out whether they heed the advice is totally up to them, their $$, their life.

[Gkri]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

How many times has there been a post stating "my furnace won't light, any suggestions?" & nothing more to go on? There are those that would be more than happy to offer help, but Keystone has & does manufacturer about a million makes & models so then it's about a half dozen post or more of guessing before the OP comes back with what rv or what brand of furnace they're talking about.
A simple easy to do signature is very helpful in offering useful pertinent advice.
Honestly I can't see how it could be invading anyone's privacy or asking any secret information?
Year, make & model of your rv & tow vehicle is ALL that's needed, it's up to that person whether to post anymore than that.
If they are afraid of the weight police then quite possibly there's a reason they should be. But as others have stated if I see an obvious issue with an inappropriate setup I am going to point it out whether they heed the advice is totally up to them, their $$, their life.

Danny - it goes beyond their money - their life, overweight set-ups endanger the lives of innocent people. If just one person heeds the advice given out by concerned people on this forum, it is worth all the negative feedback from those who don't want to hear the truth. Thanks to all who try to keep the highways safer.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Will the “owners” of the forum may have may have made the change, but I am sure it was at the urging of members of the sight team.

I don’t see the need for requiring a signature, I don’t know of any other forum that requires a signature.

I hope you're not "sure" about anything else and then act on it based on your "supposed" knowledge. The site team had nothing to do with the signature standards set by the owners of the forum.

FYI here is a copy of another sister site's signature rule;

Signature Standards
Signatures must be setup in your profile rather than manually added to your messages. They will appear at the bottom of every post you make.
Signatures may not include email addresses, links to competing websites, prompts to contact or a sales pitch.
Signatures must follow our forums posting standards and only one line may be bolded.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Will the “owners” of the forum may have may have made the change, but I am sure it was at the urging of members of the sight team.

I don’t see the need for requiring a signature, I don’t know of any other forum that requires a signature.

Not to keep "piling on" but when someone accuses me and/or the site team of wrong doing, I take a personal investment in keeping FACTS not speculation in the issue.

Here are the facts:

This forum was purchased by the new owner in 2016 and the announcement for that purchase in in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=26610

On February 13, 2019, we had a periodic review of the "community rules" with the forum ownership. The first photo below is a "direct cut and paste" of the signature requirement from the rules prior to that periodic review:

The second photo below is the "direct cut and paste" to the CURRENT signature requirement.

As you can see, there is no change in the signature requirement from February 2019 to today.

So, any "SPECULATION" of site team involvement in "urging a rules change" is not only incorrect, the above photos depict the same requirement for the last 3 years.

The only difference, if you want to call it that, is that the site team has posted a notice to the membership that there is a LONG STANDING requirement for members to use a signature. There has been no "urging" or "other action by the site team" to influence anything related to signatures other than identifying what has been "in the rules" for at least 3 years.

I could go back further in the files to locate even older sets of the community rules which also had the same signature requirement, but feel that's not necessary.

What is "necessary" is that allegations that suggest wrong doing or "plant the seeds to foster lies" not be posted on this forum.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Not to keep "piling on" but when someone accuses me and/or the site team of wrong doing, I take a personal investment in keeping FACTS not speculation in the issue.

Here are the facts:

This forum was purchased by the new owner in 2016 and the announcement for that purchase in in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=26610

On February 13, 2019, we had a periodic review of the "community rules" with the forum ownership. The first photo below is a "direct cut and paste" of the signature requirement from the rules prior to that periodic review:

The second photo below is the "direct cut and paste" to the CURRENT signature requirement.

As you can see, there is no change in the signature requirement from February 2019 to today.

So, any "SPECULATION" of site team involvement in "urging a rules change" is not only incorrect, the above photos depict the same requirement for the last 3 years.

The only difference, if you want to call it that, is that the site team has posted a notice to the membership that there is a LONG STANDING requirement for members to use a signature. There has been no "urging" or "other action by the site team" to influence anything related to signatures other than identifying what has been "in the rules" for at least 3 years.

I could go back further in the files to locate even older sets of the community rules which also had the same signature requirement, but feel that's not necessary.

What is "necessary" is that allegations that suggest wrong doing or "plant the seeds to foster lies" not be posted on this forum.

Well John, Thank You for a real answer.
So the Signature requirement has been in place for over six year! Why was this not pointed out in the past, or maybe I missed it being pointed out.
It seem that up to the last month or so it has only been strongly suggested to setup a signature.
This is most likely why it seemed like a new rule.
Sorry if I offended any of the site team, you have provided a clear answers and time line.

I would guess that most new members don’t read all the forum rules, and assume just keep it clean.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I would guess that most new members don’t read all the forum rules, and assume just keep it clean.

Sometimes not so clean, usernames included. No offense taken personally, let’s keep on rollin!!

[vampress_me]

Because I have a bad habit of inserting my $0.02.

My thought - if the owners of the forum are going to have a requirement that everyone needs to have a signature AND have to have it show on every one of their posts, the owners need to have their computer programmer fix their site programming so the site shows the signature no matter what browser/ iPad/ computer, Android, iPhone, etc is used to post. If they want to have a rule enforced, then they better make it work across all platforms, not limit people to having to use a computer, or click on a full site box while using a phone.

Now, for the question (that I admit I may have missed in another post) but has anyone brought it to the owners attention that their requirement does not work with all platforms that people use to view the forum?

[Old_Stevenick]

Makes me think of this classic meme.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by vampress_me

Because I have a bad habit of inserting my $0.02.

My thought - if the owners of the forum are going to have a requirement that everyone needs to have a signature AND have to have it show on every one of their posts, the owners need to have their computer programmer fix their site programming so the site shows the signature no matter what browser/ iPad/ computer, Android, iPhone, etc is used to post. If they want to have a rule enforced, then they better make it work across all platforms, not limit people to having to use a computer, or click on a full site box while using a phone.

Now, for the question (that I admit I may have missed in another post) but has anyone brought it to the owners attention that their requirement does not work with all platforms that people use to view the forum?

I believe to concern has been forwarded to the next level. As a moderator I have no control in this matter. It is my understanding the the site owners “rent” the software so they may not be able to modify it.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by vampress_me

Because I have a bad habit of inserting my $0.02.

My thought - if the owners of the forum are going to have a requirement that everyone needs to have a signature AND have to have it show on every one of their posts, the owners need to have their computer programmer fix their site programming so the site shows the signature no matter what browser/ iPad/ computer, Android, iPhone, etc is used to post. If they want to have a rule enforced, then they better make it work across all platforms, not limit people to having to use a computer, or click on a full site box while using a phone.

Now, for the question (that I admit I may have missed in another post) but has anyone brought it to the owners attention that their requirement does not work with all platforms that people use to view the forum?

Lynette,

There are, by my count, at least 4 software programs that access the forum. The "forum software" is hosted on vBulletin® Version 3.8.9. There are "newer versions" of that software, but they have glitches that have not yet been resolved. Some of those glitches would allow greater SPAM threats, more potential for members to be exposed to "internet crime" and even some increased problems with the ability for the forum to remain functional while the glitches are reprogrammed in the software. For that reason, the forum managment feels that "newest is not always bestest" and they have made the conscious decision to remain with the most functional software version rather than jump on the newest software version and take the risks that go along with the change. They, and I agree with them, that keeping the "tried and true software provides the forum with the best functionality for the long run".

There are software programs developed by TapaTalk, Apple and others that "access parts of the vBulletin® software, but not all parts of that "host program".

Trying to rewrite a software program to include all the "other software that's pirated into the system" would be like trying to "mandate that Apple and Android always work together in every program or in mandating that Macintosh and Microsoft "must be capable of complete functionality between the platforms"....

I think what's been overlooked is that the forum is hosted on "one platform" and members have "grown accustomed to using other platforms" to the extent that they "expect the forum to fix their other platform's performance".

The forum is not hosted on TapaTalk or on Apple's software and the forum has no "responsibility to fix those interoperability issues".

Sure, it would be nice if the forum could find a program that "allowed complete access and interchange of features" but no doubt, as soon as we do get TapaTalk and Apple working flawlessly, someone will join the forum and be using "orange phone" or "fig fone" and we'll be right back to the issue of "My device won't work with "YOUR DAMN FORUM" and you've got to fix it"...

We try, but .......

[flybouy]

I'm going to try to help clarify some of the software challenges.

If you have Microsoft Windows on your computer you actually have a license to use the software. You do not own a copy and you have no rights to "alter the software in any way". The forum owners likely rent server time and storage space. They have a license TO USE it, not to alter the servers software or hardware.

There's no difference in your phone operating system no matter the platform. There are operating systems and software that you can alter without the creator's permission and that's called "open source" where the person(s) that write the program "gives it away to humanity" and anyone can use or alter it

To John's point on stability, if you have been using Windows long enough you may remember Windows ME. It was horrible. The next release was little improved. During that time nearly every large company (and a lot of consumers) were running Windows NT because it was stable, despite being older.

So to say " the forum should just...." is making a statement without knowing the facts. The glaring fact is we are discussing the rules here and the forum rules are clear. We (forum members and site team) do not have the right to ignore the rules "just because we don't like it or find it inconvenient ". We all use and enjoy this forum free of charge. I don't think complying with the rules is that much to ask, nor difficult for the privilege.

[d12j28]

I know I don't post much (I do enjoy reading and learning from all the posts on here), but as someone who has owned my own forums in the past I just wanted to comment on the above 2 posts by @flybouy and @JRTJH (I'm guessing this forum doesn't use the @username to let them know they were mentioned in a post).

vBulletin 3.8 is end of life software (no more updates, patches, etc). This happened about 5 to 6 years ago and it had it's fair share of security issues back then. How anyone could think this is more secure than a version that is being updated and patched is beyond me. Don't get me wrong, I loved vbulletin 2.x and 3.x versions back in the day. After 4.x came out I moved to a totally different (and much better) forum software. The comparison of Windows ME and NT above isn't the same. NT was still being updated and patched unlike this version of VB.
The owners purchase the software and then pay yearly for a license to be able get the newest versions, updates and patches. They can change pretty much whatever code they want with the exception of the copyright (unless they paid to be able to remove it).

Ok, end of forum software rant.........

To stay on topic I have no problem with signatures required but you should take it easy on the newbies that don't have a clue about forums much less signatures.

[Mikendebbie]

I sent an email last week via the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of every page.

My ask was to make the RV info mandatory when a person joins the forum, chooses a screen name and fills out the basics. So far they are not filling my inbox up with replies.

I am one of those who looks at a profile page when a question is posted without any RV model info. If it is not there then I ask the poster to provide the info so the question can be accurately dealt with.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Mikendebbie

I sent an email last week via the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of every page.

My ask was to make the RV info mandatory when a person joins the forum, chooses a screen name and fills out the basics. So far they are not filling my inbox up with replies.

I am one of those who looks at a profile page when a question is posted without any RV model info. If it is not there then I ask the poster to provide the info so the question can be accurately dealt with.

Mike, The member called Janet H is the one behind the curtains who does much of the technical stuff... you probably have already guessed that the site team comprised of moderators doesn't. She doesn't monitor all posts so hopefully your note will get to her. I have contacted her in the past regarding a request that wifi speeds be logged on campgroundreviews.com as she is the admin for that site as well. I suspect she is up to her eyebrows in admin stuff as I am guessing her responsibilities go beyond this site and campgroundreviews.com. The owner, Andy R. has not been on this site for a couple years and I suspect he doesn't do day to day system administration for the many sites RV Life runs.

[Janet H]

Just a note here - the site rules are not new but some clarification about signatures appears to be in order.

Signatures are NOT mandatory. We could change the wording if there is confusion here:

Signature Standards

• Signatures must be setup in your profile rather than manually added to your messages. They will appear at the bottom of every post you make.
• Signatures may not include email addresses, links to competing websites, prompts to contact or a sales pitch.
• Signatures must follow our forums posting standards and only one line may be bolded.

The word "must appears to be the problem...

The intent of these rules was to prevent folks for manually adding long sigs to each post AND to make clear what was acceptable in a signature (No ads in sigs, no urls and no sales)

If someone doesn't want to add a signature that's fine - it's a personal choice. It's also worth noting that it's almost impossible to add a signature via the mobile app and this is a barrier for some folks.

If you want to add a signature, that's terrific. Here's the direct link to set up your sig: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...=editsignature

[RollaMo]

Thank you so much for that important clarification.

[travelin texans]

Janet, I'm not sure what app may or may not be near impossible to add a signature? I'm on several of the rv forums you administer, Iog onto them with Google using only my Android phone, as far as I can see my signature appears on all of them whether viewing from the standard site or from either the desktop or full site version.
The signature may not be mandatory, although it should be, but it sure makes giving pertinent advice about a particular rv. Some of those that do not have a signature also have no information in their profile making it a constant question as to what rv they're needing help with.
I'm still having difficulty understanding why anyone would/could have an issue listing what rv & to2 vehicle they have?? Most I know take any opportunity to brag about either of them & not ashamed or scared to post them. No one wants vin#s, names & addresses or how much you owe on with the account #, just what rv & tow vehicle your asking questions about!

[Janet H]

Originally Posted by RollaMo

Thank you so much for that important clarification.

I apologize for any confusion, the site team is doing their level best to keep the forum vibrant and well managed and the rules have language that would lead a reasonable person to believe a sig is mandatory - my bad. The site rules will be updated to clarify in the coming days to address this and I can see how the terms in the current rules can cause confusion. We'll make it a point to do better.

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Janet, I'm not sure what app may or may not be near impossible to add a signature?

Profile updates are not easy to make on mobile devices. A regular browser is needed and so for anyone logging in with an app there is a huge barrier.

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I'm still having difficulty understanding why anyone would/could have an issue listing what rv & to2 vehicle they have?? Most I know take any opportunity to brag about either of them & not ashamed or scared to post them. No one wants vin#s, names & addresses or how much you owe on with the account #, just what rv & tow vehicle your asking questions about!

It's the internet and folks have varying levels of comfort sharing information that might be personally identifying. Forum participation is voluntary and while I agree that knowing what rig a person may have makes discussions smoother, personal privacy is a real concern for some. There's no harm is asking for the info in a discussion or suggesting that a complete signature is helpful but that's probably the reasonable limit of inquiry.

For some, filling out a signature is too technically difficult (yeah... really). It's all they can do to get registered on the forum. This is the same reason we refrain from telling people to "search" after they've posted a question, rather then just helping with an answer. They may have already searched and come up dry or perhaps they simply can't manage it.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Janet H

I apologize for any confusion, the site team is doing their level best to keep the forum vibrant and well managed and the rules have language that would lead a reasonable person to believe a sig is mandatory - my bad. The site rules will be updated to clarify in the coming days to address this and I can see how the terms in the current rules can cause confusion. We'll make it a point to do better.




Profile updates are not easy to make on mobile devices. A regular browser is needed and so for anyone logging in with an app there is a huge barrier.



It's the internet and folks have varying levels of comfort sharing information that might be personally identifying. Forum participation is voluntary and while I agree that knowing what rig a person may have makes discussions smoother, personal privacy is a real concern for some. There's no harm is asking for the info in a discussion or suggesting that a complete signature is helpful but that's probably the reasonable limit of inquiry.

For some, filling out a signature is too technically difficult (yeah... really). It's all they can do to get registered on the forum. This is the same reason we refrain from telling people to "search" after they've posted a question, rather then just helping with an answer. They may have already searched and come up dry or perhaps they simply can't manage it.

Janet, One area that could be improved is that when a person puts their city/town in what shows under their basic stuff, a two letter state abbreviation would be great. Almost EVERY town in the USA has a Texas counterpart and it is confusing for me since I only got to the 5th grade and had to stay there 7 years. I don't really recall the process where you put your username, town info, etc into those fields.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Janet, I'm not sure what app may or may not be near impossible to add a signature? I'm on several of the rv forums you administer, Iog onto them with Google using only my Android phone, as far as I can see my signature appears on all of them whether viewing from the standard site or from either the desktop or full site version.
The signature may not be mandatory, although it should be, but it sure makes giving pertinent advice about a particular rv. Some of those that do not have a signature also have no information in their profile making it a constant question as to what rv they're needing help with.
I'm still having difficulty understanding why anyone would/could have an issue listing what rv & to2 vehicle they have?? Most I know take any opportunity to brag about either of them & not ashamed or scared to post them. No one wants vin#s, names & addresses or how much you owe on with the account #, just what rv & tow vehicle your asking questions about!

Anyone with the name "Danny" should be serialized. Danny1, Danny2, etc. as there are many Dannys on this thread and it confuses me...