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Old 11-26-2022, 05:19 AM   #1
RickV
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Factory Repair for Structural Issue.

I brought this up about a year ago. There is a crack in the fiberglass at the lower right corner of our Front Kitchen Slideout. I had taken it to the dealer for a long list of warranty issues, 15 if I remember correctly. At the time some of the more technically acute members suggested that it was structural and the dealer basically said the same thing. I had taken it 3 times for other warranty issues on the list and they would fix a few and then call me to come pick it up. It was costing me over $100 in diesel and 4 hours of my time to take it in and drop it off and then pick it up. Every time they would fix a few things and say we are waiting on parts. Well to make a long story shorter the crack issue never got resolved along with some delamination on the rear panel. The Slide has reached the point where I have to push on the lower right corner of the slide while retracting it to get to go in the last 4" or so. I had an incident leaving a CG back in August and did damage to the rear panel and it got messed up pretty bad. I got insurance involved with that and so I called my dealer to see if i could send them the PDF from the adjuster and get them to order the parts to fix the rear and also about the warranty issue on the front slide. Well the service adviser would not listen to what I was saying to her and kept talking about the rear panel warranty issue which is now a moot point because insurance is paying for it. She could not grasp this and kept talking about the rear and warranty so, I basically ended the phone call. I decided I was done with this dealership which I will not name but, they just off I-75 south of Ocala, Fl. I called another dealer who is only 15 miles away and is an authorized Keystone dealer. I sent em the PDF and made an appointment for a week after we got home on Oct 30th. I took it in and they did their thing and ordered the parts for the rear. When they looked at the front crack the Service Manger who said he used to a Factory Engineer said that the front crack/slideout issue would need to be fixed by the factory and that I should contact them. So after this long winded post I am looking for advice/pointers on the best way to get the factory involved in resolving this issue.
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Old 11-26-2022, 06:00 AM   #2
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You can contact Keystone yourself, but typically it needs to be an authorized Keystone dealer putting in the request to Keystone for the factory return for repairs.
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Old 11-26-2022, 07:17 AM   #3
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Try searching this forum and sister forum Montana Owners Forum using the term “frame flex” and read hundreds of threads on the subject and how folks have handled it with dealers and/or factory. You will see lots of photos to compare to your issue.
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Old 11-26-2022, 02:39 PM   #4
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The crack you are experiencing is well known.. Has been for almost 20 years. And yet it continues..

Here is the complete repair version 2 ( latest repair )..

And the best place hands down to get this repair done is :

https://affinityrvgroup.com/
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Old 11-27-2022, 03:28 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
The crack you are experiencing is well known.. Has been for almost 20 years. And yet it continues..

Here is the complete repair version 2 ( latest repair )..

And the best place hands down to get this repair done is :

https://affinityrvgroup.com/
Thanks for the info. If it wasn't for the fact that closing the slide has gotten to the point of having to assist it and at anytime it could stop going in all the way I wouldn't be as concerned and just mark it up to bad quality control on Keystone's behalf. So I guess I need to speak with the Service Manager at the new dealership I am dealing with to get the ball rolling.
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Old 11-27-2022, 05:36 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by RickV View Post
Thanks for the info. If it wasn't for the fact that closing the slide has gotten to the point of having to assist it and at anytime it could stop going in all the way I wouldn't be as concerned and just mark it up to bad quality control on Keystone's behalf. So I guess I need to speak with the Service Manager at the new dealership I am dealing with to get the ball rolling.
Behind the exterior wall you have at least one broken aluminum stud at the weld.. This is only gonna get worse to the point that your slide won't move at all .. the crack is gonna continue and you are also going to see issues going up the wall .. not just downward at an angle..

I live in Idaho.. There is Not ONE RV dealership in the entire state that I would trust to do the repair you need on yours.. I would have to take mine to Affinity to get repaired.. Mine is a 2014 and is the 3010RE ( smallest Alpine ) at 34 feet.. I think its one of the reasons that I have not had "knock on wood" any issues with my BR slide wall cracking..

I also watch ho much weight I stick into the forward compartment.. Some carry a ton of crap forward and are running with very heavy pin weights..

I think.. and its just my elderly mind thinking this... that the excessive pin weight on some of the longer Alpines is also a contributor.

The super structure that Keystone welds onto the Lippert frame needs more gussets for support and the weld qualities on some of the aluminum studs are worse than a 10 year old could do.. I have been welding for about 45 years now..

I wish you the best of success in getting yours repaired by a place that has done the repair before and knows what they are doing.
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Old 11-27-2022, 06:17 AM   #7
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The dealer OR a Keystone's designated repair shop (arranged by the dealer) should be able to repair the stress crack and corrdinate with Keystone on the repair strategy. Mine did. Keystone even had the dealer make the same repair to the opposing side even though it was not cracked to mitigate the risk of future structural damage.

The repair strategy requires removing the skin, welding new aluminum structual braces in the wall, re-instating the skin and installing an expanision joint.
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Old 11-27-2022, 06:38 AM   #8
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The dealer OR a Keystone's designated repair shop (arranged by the dealer) should be able to repair the stress crack and corrdinate with Keystone on the repair strategy. Mine did. Keystone even had the dealer make the same repair to the opposing side even though it was not cracked to mitigate the risk of future structural damage.

The repair strategy requires removing the skin, welding new aluminum structual braces in the wall, re-instating the skin and installing an expanision joint.
Yup.. There are some excellent RV service centers that can also do this repair.. In Idaho .. there are none.. IMO.... CW and Bish are the major places on the east and west side of Idaho.. I would not let any of these work on a ryder wagon .. let alone my RV.

We did have some good local places in Idaho but these have all been acquired by CW.. The well known place I have purchased the last 5 RVs from was acquired by CW..
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Old 11-27-2022, 06:46 AM   #9
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My dealer in Pismo Beach, California (250 miles from my home and dropping the trailer off there was not a big deal since we were traveling back from Palm Desert) repaired the stress crack. However, an rv'er friend had to have his Cougar fifth wheel towed 500+ miles to a Keystone-authorized shop in Oregon to make the same repair and back to his home.

I would request the dealer arrange for the repair at a Keystone-authousized shop and arrange for transport. Keystone needs to stand behind the repair.
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:05 PM   #10
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There is a service bulletin for this issue in the 2021 models. Mine had the crack too. I sent an email to Keystone asking what I needed to do to get it fixed.

I had to send them my VIN and pictures. They verified that yes it was covered and I needed to make an appointment with a Keystone dealership. Once I got that appointment I had to let Keystone know.

I got it fixed and all made like new BUT….. the fiberglass is cracking again after only two months. I have it in a shop right now for some other stuff. The said there should have been a “stress cut” put in so the wall could flex. This repair shop is going to do that.

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Old 02-07-2023, 02:23 AM   #11
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Update:
Today makes 3 weeks that I took it to a Camping World near me. I talked to the Service dept. on Saturday and they said that they had sent Keystone pictures and info and that keystone had requested more info. They said that they had sent the more info Keystone had requested and were waiting for the OK from Keystone. They also claimed that keystone was offering only 5 hours for the repair and they estimated 60 hours. They said that besides the structural problems that the Pillars/Supports for the slide out were messed up (bent) too and would need to be replaced. So yesterday I called Keystone and they said they were waiting on Camping World to "Flip a Switch"(?) on the updated info. I know one thing this is the last "New" RV we will ever buy, let someone else deal with the crappy build, quality control and warranty service.
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Old 02-07-2023, 07:20 AM   #12
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Update:
Today makes 3 weeks that I took it to a Camping World near me. I talked to the Service dept. on Saturday and they said that they had sent Keystone pictures and info and that keystone had requested more info. They said that they had sent the more info Keystone had requested and were waiting for the OK from Keystone. They also claimed that keystone was offering only 5 hours for the repair and they estimated 60 hours. They said that besides the structural problems that the Pillars/Supports for the slide out were messed up (bent) too and would need to be replaced. So yesterday I called Keystone and they said they were waiting on Camping World to "Flip a Switch"(?) on the updated info. I know one thing this is the last "New" RV we will ever buy, let someone else deal with the crappy build, quality control and warranty service.
Rick, not sure if the "contact Marcus" thing is still a thing but at one time you could email the boss directly. That might be worth a shot. Or you could go in and make faces at the dealership service manager till he got sick of looking at you and provided what was needed to get the go ahead from Keystone on the repairs.
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Old 02-07-2023, 08:20 AM   #13
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This is NOT a "defense of Keystone", especially since the "front frame flex problem" has been ongoing for at least the last 10 years, possibly for as long as Keystone has been building large fifth wheels on Lippert frames...

So, "extenuating circumstanses" include:

Yesterday was the first day since before Christmas that Keystone has been working with more than a skeleton staff. The plant was closed (except for security and the phone staff) and just reopened for business yesterday, February 6th. Trying to get "things done expeditiously" since the scheduled closing just wasn't gonna happen, no matter how frustrated, impatient or angry you might have been.... When the approving authority is on vacation in the Bahamas, the approval paperwork WILL sit in an inbox until the plant reopens...

Now looking back at the problem, it's been a "known issue" for, as I said earlier, at least the last 10 years. So buying a "used trailer without the problem" may well mean buying a 2010 or earlier trailer, and that's no "guarantee that the frame won't flex just like yours is doing".....

Now that the plant is open again, with a full administrative staff and functioning management, hopefully your problem will be addressed and your dealership will get an answer from Keystone in a reasonable timeframe.....

https://www.keystonerv.com/employees

Not that it's any consolation or help for you, but think of the people who are waiting for something to get done at the Oregon facilities... They don't return to work for another 2 weeks, February 20th...
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Old 02-07-2023, 11:57 AM   #14
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This is NOT a "defense of Keystone", especially since the "front frame flex problem" has been ongoing for at least the last 10 years, possibly for as long as Keystone has been building large fifth wheels on Lippert frames....
John has anyone ever had the cracked frame that had no bedroom east/west slide out? Almost all the campers I can recall seem to have a slide out on the driver's side coming out of the bedroom. I also seem to recall other frame issues but not the type Rick is having... just curious.
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Old 02-07-2023, 12:41 PM   #15
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George,

There have been several reports of buckled or cracked frames with bulging or separated molding and issues with the front fiberglass cap. You're right, the problem is not as common with trailers that do not have a slide opening in that space, but in the OP's trailer, there is a heavy refrigerator and a pantry (think heavy canned goods storage area) right over where his problem is located.

Now, thinking about how Keystone operates, chances are fairly good that had his trailer included a bed slide or a front living room with a sofa slide in that location, it's likely the customer service section would have had a "written protocol to fall back on" and his repair would have been approved based on the "past failures of that type". They could easily have used the written repair procedures that were published years ago and are still being used as the repair guide for today's failures....

Since his trailer does not have a slide in that location, but is built on the same frame with sidewall changes, there's probably no "written protocol to approve the repair" and that's what caused the delay "until the engineers get back from vacation and the plant reopened yesterday.....

What "hourly worker on the skeleton crew" would want to put their neck in a noose by approving a $5-10K repair while the entire plant is shut down and there's nobody with the authority to back up their decision?????
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Old 02-07-2023, 02:25 PM   #16
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George,

There have been several reports of buckled or cracked frames with bulging or separated molding and issues with the front fiberglass cap. You're right, the problem is not as common with trailers that do not have a slide opening in that space, but in the OP's trailer, there is a heavy refrigerator and a pantry (think heavy canned goods storage area) right over where his problem is located.

Now, thinking about how Keystone operates, chances are fairly good that had his trailer included a bed slide or a front living room with a sofa slide in that location, it's likely the customer service section would have had a "written protocol to fall back on" and his repair would have been approved based on the "past failures of that type". They could easily have used the written repair procedures that were published years ago and are still being used as the repair guide for today's failures....

Since his trailer does not have a slide in that location, but is built on the same frame with sidewall changes, there's probably no "written protocol to approve the repair" and that's what caused the delay "until the engineers get back from vacation and the plant reopened yesterday.....

What "hourly worker on the skeleton crew" would want to put their neck in a noose by approving a $5-10K repair while the entire plant is shut down and there's nobody with the authority to back up their decision?????
Most likely you are correct. I don't know much about how the warranty thing works as I have never had a camper under warranty and fixed what needed fixing myself. A cracked frame is well outside my abilities and hope Rick gets it sorted.
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Old 02-07-2023, 03:53 PM   #17
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Most likely you are correct. I don't know much about how the warranty thing works as I have never had a camper under warranty and fixed what needed fixing myself. A cracked frame is well outside my abilities and hope Rick gets it sorted.
Yes, I hope he does as well. My "something to consider" was not intended to be an excuse for Keystone. Heaven knows there's never going to be enough excuses to cover all the problems people have with most any brand of travel trailer. I just wanted to describe a likely situation that would explain why Keystone didn't "jump right on approving his issue". I'd guess what happened, based on what he has posted, is that the dealership sent in what they thought would get an approval to repair, Keystone's "skeleton crew" tried to use their available list of "Approve if the following is confirmed/deny or request further information if these items are not confirmed".... Since they were likely attempting to use the approval process for a trailer with a bed slide, they couldn't "fit the round peg in the square hole" and the paperwork was sent to the next higher level, a level that was on vacation until the plant reopened".... So, they may have let the dealership know the status, maybe they didn't, or they told someone in a quick phone call and that person at the dealership forgot to make a note of the status in the repair folder....

At this point, it's all a "guessing game" as to what really happened, but I wanted to at least open the door on the resolution not "just sitting because Keystone doesn't want to fix my trailer"....

I'd put money on the dealership getting a status update this week, now that the plant's management is back to work.
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Old 02-08-2023, 02:45 AM   #18
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John, I didn't know that they were still shutdown. I was told that from Thanksgiving until after New Years was the shutdown, that is why I waited until mid January to take it in. Hopefully it gets resolved in a timely manner. As a side note "but in the OP's trailer, there is a heavy refrigerator and a pantry (think heavy canned goods storage area) right over where his problem is located" It is actually on the other side from where the refrigerator and pantry are and there is a big slide out with the stove, microwave, lots of counter space and under counter storage. I know it will get resolved I just hope it doesn't take too long.
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Old 02-08-2023, 07:16 AM   #19
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I truly hope that CW can handle this repair for you.. Also when I looked at your model again and the image I am really surprised that when keystone built this model they Did Not go ahead and put the expansion joint in at this area during initial build.

My 2014 has the expansion joint.. Different floor plan but that relief cut in the sidewall (expansion joint) really makes a difference in allowing the frame to flex and yet not but the filon wall.

Not sure that it makes a hill of beans with regards to the aluminum studs that have broken loose at the bottom of the welds ( And They Have ).

I would INSIST on seeing the issue with the slideout and take pics your self of the work in progress..

Also .. just about every Alpine (FK) and (FL) models are seeing the cracks in the lower corner of the slide outs... FYI...

The Montana line is also seeing its fair share of slide sidewall cracks on its dual front slide models.

The file I uploaded in another comment on this post is the Latest repair procedure for your issue..

I would also be at CW in front of the Service manager and insist on him making a phone call to Keystone to get your warranty repair work status confirmed and in work... Perhaps you already have.

Bradd Hile is the Keystone Alpine District Sales manager.. he may also be of help if you can get in touch with him and ask for help resolving your warranty issues.
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Old 02-08-2023, 09:16 AM   #20
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My 1st big 5er was a '02 Cedar Creek followed by a '09 Big Country then to the Redwood, all of them had a crack somewhere around the bedroom slide & as far as I knew at the time they were typical stress cracks found on all 5ers with bedroom slides. Take a walk around a campground & see how many have the crack or the factory stress relief, I'm guessing 75%+.
I actually put the T brace stress relief on the Redwood covering the crack. The crack would seperate about 1/8-1/4" when connected to the truck, which in my opinion was not a lot of movement considering the 3k+ pin weight.
I can't imagine the kind of stress & pin weight on the front kitchen floorplans. The kitchen side of my rear living model was considerably heavier than the opposite side due all the heavy appliances & large pantry.
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