Fuzion 301 - Chassis

Escs36 · 12-28-2012, 11:02 PM

I have a brand new 2013 Fuzion 301 with a chassis problem on the first trip of 200 miles. This is a bumper pull trailer and the trailer tongue has begun to buckle. The triangle has bent inwards on both sides right where the tongue and body meet. Since this was my first trip I did pay $10 and got a certified weight ticket. I was less than the rated GVWR of the coach. I only had 2 dirt bikes in the garage and enough supplies for a weekend trip. I have not had a chance to take the trailer to my dealer yet, but I wanted this issue made public immediately. My first step was file a complaint with NHSTA and step 2 will be my lawyer. I chose a bumper pull trailer after seeing my fathers fifth wheel chassis problems. This seems like a major issue with these chassis' builders. Do people need to die before the chassis builders build a properly built chassis for these coaches traveling on public roads?

SteveC7010 · 12-29-2012, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escs36

I have a brand new 2013 Fuzion 301 with a chassis problem on the first trip of 200 miles. This is a bumper pull trailer and the trailer tongue has begun to buckle. The triangle has bent inwards on both sides right where the tongue and body meet. Since this was my first trip I did pay $10 and got a certified weight ticket. I was less than the rated GVWR of the coach. I only had 2 dirt bikes in the garage and enough supplies for a weekend trip. I have not had a chance to take the trailer to my dealer yet, but I wanted this issue made public immediately. My first step was file a complaint with NHSTA and step 2 will be my lawyer. I chose a bumper pull trailer after seeing my fathers fifth wheel chassis problems. This seems like a major issue with these chassis' builders. Do people need to die before the chassis builders build a properly built chassis for these coaches traveling on public roads?

How about providing some pictures of the problem areas, please?

Escs36 · 12-31-2012, 09:17 PM

Upon further review, the tongue of the trailer is bent up. Looks like a couple inches. I have a precision angle finder and will try to capture some actual numbers.

**JRTJH** · 12-31-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escs36

Upon further review, the tongue of the trailer is bent up. Looks like a couple inches. I have a precision angle finder and will try to capture some actual numbers.

While you're doing the numbers with your angle finder, how about taking a few pictures as well. Remember, a picture is worth a thousand words

Escs36 · 01-03-2013, 10:34 PM

I posted many pictures showing the damages the best I could with my camera phone. I even scanned the weight certificate showing the trailer was around 12,220# moderately loaded for a weekend trip. Fresh water, fuel, and propane were all topped off. I only had 2 dirt bikes in the back which might way 500# total. Riding gear, some winter clothes, and enough food for 2 guys to eat for a weekend (cereal and sandwiches.) I have not even stocked the trailer with flat wear, pots, pans, utensils, etc...

In the past I have had the truck weighed which is 7500# empty but full of fuel. I easily had 500# of fire wood, concrete foundation blocks for setting the leveling jacks, and a variety of wood blocks for whatever. All I can do is take an educated guess for what I had in the back of the truck. Had I known the chassis was going to fail, I would have disconnected the trailer and weighed units separately. Hind sight is 20/20. I only weighed the rig for S%&*@'s and giggles. Being that my truck is a diesel powered, crew cab, long bed, dual rears and two wheel drive, weight is hardly an issue for this TV and TT combination.

davidjsimons · 01-04-2013, 02:32 AM

From the best I can tell, your tongue weight appears to be in the neighborhood of 2300 lbs. Trying to not exceed the figure of 15% of gross weight on the tongue, with an estimated gross weight of the trailer being around 12200 lbs, the tongue weight should have been no more than around 1800 lbs. I am not saying that this caused the issue at hand, but just trying to give you something to consider before you speak to a representative from Keystone. Another thing to consider is your hitch rating with that much tongue weight. Most Class V hitches are only rated for 1800 lbs. of tongue weight when used with a weight distributing hitch. I'm just trying to share some insight with you in regards to your unfortunate situation.

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Escs36 · 01-04-2013, 09:06 AM

I agree with everything you have detailed. This was the first trip out and the coach was not even loaded for a true boondocking trip. I would have added a few hundred pounds worth of food, clothes and toys had I planned a trip with the wife and 2 year old. I did not even have enough cargo in the trailer to begin distributing anything. Clothes for 2 guys would not have even scratched the surface for distributing weight. A box of cereal, gallon of milk, a loaf of bread and some cold cuts could not possibly distribute any weight. Also note that the garage space is supposed to be rated for 2000# and I had 25% of that. What would the tongue weight be had I put 2 full dresser harleys back there? Perhaps this is a serious design flaw? The trailer was rock solid and never wiggled an inch with nasty cross winds while travelling through the desert.

SAABDOCTOR · 01-04-2013, 09:09 AM

I would not mention that your father has had chassis issues. my be taken as you only tow it to church on sunday smooth roads 10 mph!. you may be a bit over on the tounge weight. i have towed both tt and 5ers never had an issue like your having and have been on some fait s&^y roads. good luck with tis keep us all posted.

davidjsimons · 01-04-2013, 11:51 AM

Two full dressed Harley's in the garage would have lightened the tongue weight actually. Anything forward of the axles will load the tongue. Anything rear of the axles will lighten the tongue.

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**JRTJH** · 01-04-2013, 02:47 PM

There are a couple of discussions on here from a year ago (or about then) detailing issues with tongue weight in bumper tow toy haulers. In one, Keystone either suggested using sand bags as ballast and/or installed an additional fresh water tank in the front of the trailer to serve as ballast. While this would indicate the opposite issue from a heavy tongue, it is much the same in describing the very marked difference in tongue weights of an empty toy hauler and a loaded toy hauler. It seems to me that there were some "un-stated" problems in towing a toy hauler without compensating for the load configuration. The indications were that it's not just a hookup and head out kind of RV. It was pretty much clear that Keystone expected the owner to load appropriately to maintain the tongue weight within specific limits.

Do a search for toy hauler hitch weight problems and you should find additional information from owners with similar problems.
Here's a starting point for you: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...+tongue+weight

Escs36 · 01-05-2013, 01:59 AM

I live in Los Angeles and have heard we have some of the worst roads in the country. One of the main Northbound/Southbound freeways through west Los Angeles has some nasty bumps crossing a couple of the under pass bridges. My fathers trailer is a Forest River Wild Cat. The only common denominator is the Lippert Chassis. His is a fifth wheel and not a toy hauler.

I have owned trailers my entire driving career of 17 years and have never had any kind of chassis failures. I had race car trailers which had obscene tongue weights due to tool boxes, generator, full size air compressors, and stupid amounts of spare parts. This has me completely baffled. I am still in love with this trailer because it is exactly what I needed. I am seriously bummed out and especially concerned about it being fixed correctly.

I just cannot believe the notion that toy haulers are not a simple hook and go. That is why I have a toy hauler. My trucking business does not allow me to plan anything. I kept my Cyclone stocked and loaded ready to hit the road at the last minute.

I read the post about the guy who had sway issues with his 301 and Keystone added 50 gallon water tank to the front of the trailer. Trying to ballast this trailer would simply send me over the gross vehicle rating of 13,000#, especially once the trailer is properly equipped with boon docking supplies. One other factor is my dinosaur truck only has a 20,000# gross combo rating. I already exceeded that by 200# hardly even loaded.

I presented the idea of the full dresser harleys because that would not only put the trailer at the cusp of max gross weight depending on supplies loaded and it would also likely make the trailer tail heavy.

My tongue weight was on the heavy side but not an unreasonable amount. Whats bad about that too is that I did not even have the under bed storage loaded up. I was hardly even loaded at all. The trailer should have 1950# tongue weight for the 13,000# pound trailer. I can see having the tongue bend with say 75% too much tongue weight, not 10%. I can only guess the weight of the payload I had in the truck. For all I know I could have had 700# which would have put tongue weight right on the money. Could of, should of, would of...

Regardless of a petty hundred pounds or two, chassis' should not be failing. This is a serious safety hazzard for the general population. Shouldn't a chassis be over engineered?

davidjsimons · 01-05-2013, 02:55 AM

I agree with the notion of what you have said. It is an unfortunate situation. My caution to you in regards to the weight estimations and CAT scale ticket was to keep anything from being used against you.

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Escs36 · 01-05-2013, 01:06 PM

I had to break out the calculator and settle the score. My tongue weight was 1960 and theoretical max tongue weight should be 1950. My percentage was 16%. That is nearly spot on

Keep in mind that the back of the truck has an unknown amount of weight and my best guess as well as the guy who was with me agrees that 500# is a good estimate.

I am hoping that I can get the trailer to my dealer this week.

**JRTJH** · 01-05-2013, 04:11 PM

escs36,

I don't think anyone has (or is) trying to infer that you did anything wrong in loading or towing your trailer. The comments made, I think, were to address the fact that when considering a toy hauler, its functional use puts extreme demands on loadiing the trailer properly. Anytime you park up to 2000 lbs that far behind the fulcrum (axles) you teeter the see saw markedly. Removing that weight will also change the tongue weight dramatically. Other owners of toy haulers have commented that it was suggested to them that they add sand bags or water bladders under the bed to offset the weight. I would be extremely discouraged if I had to resort to adding "dirt under my bed" in order to be able to tow my new RV with my "toys" in the garage. After all, that is exactly what it was advertised to do. Getting answers as to what happened and why should be the priority at this point.

It is a matter of balance, shifting other cargo forward or aft to accommodate that kind of added weight in the extreme rear of the trailer that has to be considered no matter the brand or even the type of RV. Were I to add a 250 lb load to the back bumper of my fifth wheel, I'd notice the change in pin weight, although not as dramatically as I would if I added 2000 lbs to the bumper. I'd say that if I did that, I wouldn't be able to get the pin down onto the bed of my truck, it'd be suspended in the air as the rear of my trailer squatted on the ground.

Your comment and concern about "over engineering" the chassis most likely won't happen in today's competetive market. Adding extra steel costs money, if the competetion doesn't add it, they have a market advantage. We've discussed that issue in a number of posts on this forum. I recently ran into one of those "competetive choices" made by Ford. My wife's Escape needed front brake pads. Ford recommended changing the rotors instead of machining (turning) them. When I questioned that, I was told that they "always replace them". I had my doubts, and asked a number of independent brake shops around town what they do in that situation. Each one told me that all the manufacturers, not only Ford, in an effort to cut weight and meet EPA guidelines for fuel mileage, has trimmed as much weight as possible from the rotors and there's just not enough left, after machining, to maintain a flat surface. They all recommend new rotors and say that if the customer chooses to turn the current ones, they won't guarantee a satisfactory installation. They all said that if the old rotors are used, it is more expensive to redo them in 2-3 months "when" the rotors warp. So, at least in rotors, "over engineering" has become "bare minimum engineering"

I'm sure Lippert, Keystone, Thor Industries, Winnebago, Forest River and all the others have to make the same kind of "competetive" considerations on a daily basis when engineering their products. Whether it's right or not, it's an industry wide issue, especially since the same Lippert chassis is installed under almost all the similar toy haulers on the market regardless of who makes the trailer.

Just like you, I wonder why yours is "the one" of literally hundreds on the road that failed. I would hope that Lippert and Keystone would want to know why your tongue failed as much or even more than you want the answer. Getting to your dealer is probably the best "first step" to take.

Escs36 · 01-05-2013, 08:09 PM

Well stated. It is truly baffling what cars have become. The cars today are becoming death traps in order meet the mileage demands from the federal government. We have not even begun to see the short falls in the auto industry due to the most recent changes imposed by the Obama administration (first term.) Regardless of what happens, my family will always be safe in the family SUV.

In regards to competitive edges, these manufactures probably also use the cheapest labor available. My particular trailer is bent right at some welds. It seems pretty obvious that it may have been welded too hot and fatigued the steel at that location. Naturally cheap steel will contribute to that deficiency. Often times when parts are defective they fail immediately and this chassis would fall into that category. Chassis failure with only 200 miles and no accident involvement is pretty pathetic.

Thanks for every bodies insight and I will keep everybody posted. I did not call Keystone or my dealer last week to give people a chance to get back into their work routines because of the holiday seasons.

**JRTJH** · 01-05-2013, 09:12 PM

One added point to consider, based on your statement that your trailer failed with barely 200 miles on it. Fuzion toyhaulers are only made in the East Coast Complex, meaning around the Goshen, IN area. So, your RV had at least 2200 miles on it when it hit the dealer's lot. Who knows what kind of towing it encountered, and most likely the garage was empty which put a heavier load on the tongue during that trip.

rnkburg · 01-05-2013, 09:28 PM

Towing with an empty garage shouldnt effect the unit. Many people buy a tou hauler and use it like a bunkhouse . We went more with our garage empty this year vs loaded. Get it back to the dealer and call keystone. You have too much invested and they should fix it , actually replace it

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Escs36 · 01-05-2013, 10:36 PM

That is very true about miles! I agree the unit should be replaced but realistically that would not happen. This is actually a very simple fix. If this wasn't under warranty I would have already had it all torn apart and ready for reconstruction by now. I did discover that the off door slide is rubbing the floor as well. The linoleum is scuffed now and in a matter of time will be shredded.

After mentioning the 2200 mile journey to the west coast, I have wondered why the tongue of the trailer has been repainted. If you look closely you can see some writing under the paint. Also it was repainted with an almost flat black where the rest of the chassis looks satin. You can also see where it was propped up with jack stands on each side because it has rust spots. I never thought twice about this... I suppose I better go out and document that as well.

Escs36 · 01-05-2013, 11:09 PM

Attached is 2 pictures of the rusty spots mentioned in my previous post. These are directly below where the tongue is bent. I removed the propane tanks and do not see evidence of where perhaps somebody tried to bend the tongue back down. For instance place jack stands under where the bend is and push down on the coupler area with a back hoe or some other heavy equipment...Food for thought. I almost feel like the dealer pulled a fast one on me now. The writing under the flat black paint is the model number.

**JRTJH** · 01-06-2013, 07:04 AM

A couple of years ago, Lippert started powdercoating all their chassis components. I'd guess that what you're seeing as a "different color" is actually spray paint on the tongue and powdercoat on the rest of the chassis.

Here's the link for the Lippert Information catalog. The maintenance/use for the chassis is on page 36.

http://www.lci1.com/index.php?option...d=1&Itemid=289

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