Upgrade converter or get a multiplus?

[Kevin J]

Hi,

New to the site and not yet taken delivery of our bullet 250bhs. So thanks in advance for your patience and willingness to share your experience.

Already thinking of upgrading as I know the single 12V battery supplied by the dealership will be insufficient; the unit comes with a 12v electric only 10cu fridge. Obviously plugged in won't be a problem but even some campsites are without power.

Solar seems like an expensive and incomplete fix (i.e. no AC even for part of the day), so will likely buy a 3500W generator (for when I want to run AC or charge batteries). That said I don't want to run the generator for 18hrs/day to charge batteries.

My first upgrade I was thinking of buying is a Victron SmartShunt 500amp. ($130) battery monitor. That way we could go to a powered campsite initially and accurately measure our power consumption to know how much battery we would need. At a guess was thinking of going with 2 x 6V batteries approx 200Ah in series. (12V, 200Ah). Which batteries charge faster than others?

Also thinking of getting an external EMS surge protector. ($300)

Then got to thinking,
1. should I replace converter that comes with RV (probably 1 stage) to a multi-stage converter. ($200+) Better for when we do buy the new battery and might charge batteries faster? if so which one?
2. Then started thinking it would be good to have an inverter to watch some TV with the kids at night without running the generator. ($200 to cover part of the RV only)

Then thought well actually rather than getting the Shunt ($130) + improved converter ($200) + Inverter ($200) should I go for something like the Victron MultiPlus (3000W 120 AMP charger auto-switch, builtin battery monitor, etc, etc, etc) for $1300. Obviously nearly double the price but a single unit that does all of the above and will make it easy to go the next step with some solar. But if I went this route I would probably buy a wired surge protector and save $100 from the external models.

I would welcome your thoughts. Hope this is the right section of the forum, apologies if not.

The goal is basically to run the generator for a few hours in the morning and top up before night time each day. In particular not waking up to a dead battery.

Thanks.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Kevin J

Hi,

New to the site and not yet taken delivery of our bullet 250bhs. So thanks in advance for your patience and willingness to share your experience.

Already thinking of upgrading as I know the single 12V battery supplied by the dealership will be insufficient; the unit comes with a 12v electric only 10cu fridge. Obviously plugged in won't be a problem but even some campsites are without power.

Solar seems like an expensive and incomplete fix (i.e. no AC even for part of the day), so will likely buy a 3500W generator (for when I want to run AC or charge batteries). That said I don't want to run the generator for 18hrs/day to charge batteries.

My first upgrade I was thinking of buying is a Victron SmartShunt 500amp. ($130) battery monitor. That way we could go to a powered campsite initially and accurately measure our power consumption to know how much battery we would need. At a guess was thinking of going with 2 x 6V batteries approx 200Ah in series. (12V, 200Ah). Which batteries charge faster than others?

Also thinking of getting an external EMS surge protector. ($300)

Then got to thinking,
1. should I replace converter that comes with RV (probably 1 stage) to a multi-stage converter. ($200+) Better for when we do buy the new battery and might charge batteries faster? if so which one?
2. Then started thinking it would be good to have an inverter to watch some TV with the kids at night without running the generator. ($200 to cover part of the RV only)

Then thought well actually rather than getting the Shunt ($130) + improved converter ($200) + Inverter ($200) should I go for something like the Victron MultiPlus (3000W 120 AMP charger auto-switch, builtin battery monitor, etc, etc, etc) for $1300. Obviously nearly double the price but a single unit that does all of the above and will make it easy to go the next step with some solar. But if I went this route I would probably buy a wired surge protector and save $100 from the external models.

I would welcome your thoughts. Hope this is the right section of the forum, apologies if not.

The goal is basically to run the generator for a few hours in the morning and top up before night time each day. In particular not waking up to a dead battery.

Thanks.

I have the victron battery monitor with Bluetooth..it’s a nice option.
You may want to double check about having a hardwired ems and using a portable generator...I think some ems manufacturers void warranty’s if that is used that way.
I have the portable ems
Don’t know if your unit has solar prep outlets but mine does
I went with a harbor freight 3500 inverter gen( should have went with two 2000 watt portable ..lighter and more versatile). It really gets great reviews and I purchased the two year replacement warranty.
I put a 2000 watt xantrex freedom inverter wired to 3 solar ready designated outlets.
I have two 6volt Trojan batteries .
I think the newer converters are a little better then what was offered even a few years ago ..3 stage I believe ...I could be wrong on that.
I also got a renogy 200 watt suitcase solar panel with built in controller ..more of a experiment just because it intrigued me.
I purchased my inverter and wiring/ fuses from Don Rowe .com... they are great to deal with

[Kevin J]

Thanks for that info. You've made me rethink the external surge protection.

I was thinking the harbor freight generator as well.

The paperwork for RV's is limited so maybe the converter it comes with isn't bad?

The invoice says it is Solar/Inverter prep but it is hard to find out what that means anywhere? I know the solar ready plug at the front just chargers the battery and was debating a solar suitcase like you describe which will probably cover most electric needs during the day. There may be wiring ready for the roof too which is what "inverter prep" means?

Thanks again.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Kevin J

Thanks for that info. You've made me rethink the external surge protection.

I was thinking the harbor freight generator as well.

The paperwork for RV's is limited so maybe the converter it comes with isn't bad?

The invoice says it is Solar/Inverter prep but it is hard to find out what that means anywhere? I know the solar ready plug at the front just chargers the battery and was debating a solar suitcase like you describe which will probably cover most electric needs during the day. There may be wiring ready for the roof too which is what "inverter prep" means?

Thanks again.

Go down to the technical section in the forum Scroll down to the 2021 passport solar breaker thread. I have my system in there and explain the solar prep a little

[Kevin J]

I will do thanks again

[ChuckS]

The WFCO 3 stage converter on your RV will work just fine with any conventional flooded or AGM style RV battery.. It will not work with Lithium batteries

Cost wise the Costco GC2 gold cart batteries at $89 a piece will work as well as any out there at higher costs.

Currently on my 6th year with two GC2 batteries from Costco made by Interstate... some will argue till the cows come home that the Costco GC2s wont hold up... Naw... mine are proof that they work just fine and I boon dock a lot

My EMS is plug in unit and I prefer this over any hard wired EMS because..
1. I can check an RV power pedestal out before I drag out the RV power cord
2. If the EMS fails for some reason ( and they do) I can still provide power to my RV from the pedestal without EMS protection
3. Generators sometimes don't play well with an EMS si its nice to have mine as a plug in
4. I run two Honda 2000s without the EMS in use.. its not needed

YMMV

[Kevin J]

Thank you both for the advice.

The info above and in links provided has given me a change in approach.

I am now thinking;
- external EMS (higher end type).
- going with built-in converter (didn't know it was even WFCO 3 stage. thanks)

Upgrades left
- add an inverter (with auto-switch) at Inverter ready point. (likely 2000W)

New questions:
- I notice the inverters (Xantrex Freedom X, XC, etc) have a battery charger (up to 100AMP). Will this have any impact to charging my batteries when on shore power? or will this still be done solely by the converter?
- If I put the inverter where it is pre-wired, should I add solar panels(with MPPT etc), will it subsequently charge the batteries(only when off Shore? or on shore power as well?), or would I need a different wiring.

Given the above any suggestions on which inverter to buy?

Sorry for the never-ending questions.

[Kevin J]

And if I buy an inverter do I still need the separate SmartShunt battery monitor? Or will the inverter come with that ability?

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Kevin J

Thank you both for the advice.

The info above and in links provided has given me a change in approach.

I am now thinking;
- external EMS (higher end type).
- going with built-in converter (didn't know it was even WFCO 3 stage. thanks)

Upgrades left
- add an inverter (with auto-switch) at Inverter ready point. (likely 2000W)

New questions:
- I notice the inverters (Xantrex Freedom X, XC, etc) have a battery charger (up to 100AMP). Will this have any impact to charging my batteries when on shore power? or will this still be done solely by the converter?
- If I put the inverter where it is pre-wired, should I add solar panels(with MPPT etc), will it subsequently charge the batteries(only when off Shore? or on shore power as well?), or would I need a different wiring.

Given the above any suggestions on which inverter to buy?

Sorry for the never-ending questions.

You don’t have to buy an inverter with a built in charger, the freedom x doesn’t have one. I didn’t want one for what I have . And if you buy the generator you can use that to charge the batteries or get a small suitcase 100 or 200 watt unit with built in charge controller.
I purchased the suitcase because I figured I could try out the solar and If I ever get permanent roof mounted panels I could either sell the suitcase or use for additional portable solar where I could aim at sun if under trees.
Your solar will charge the batteries when off shore power.
If you get the freedom xc then you would have to disconnect the charging side of your converter I believe.
And a mppt charger is better for charging batteries but I just went with what came with the suitcase for now.
Go to renogys website..some people build there own portable unit with a roof mounted solar panel on the ground with a homemade frame. And they buy the mppt charger, use it like that until they decide to mount it permanently. I don’t want to mount any panels to my roof while under warranty

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Kevin J

And if I buy an inverter do I still need the separate SmartShunt battery monitor? Or will the inverter come with that ability?

A good battery monitor is nice and is a small investment as far as I’m concerned. The freedom has a monitor but will not show you everything that a victron will

[Kevin J]

any thoughts on..............

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N53GF81...ing=UTF8&psc=1

[jasin1]

This is the ems I got....buy yourself a cable lock and lock it to the pedestal when camping..keep someone from trying it out on there rig for awhile

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Kevin J

any thoughts on..............

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N53GF81...ing=UTF8&psc=1

Yes... but I can't write it here without getting kicked off..

[flybouy]

That looks like a lot of battery, a lot of money, and what's the weight? Is this just an exercise in "look what big battery I found?" or are you actually considering purchasing it? Ad if you are, for what purpose?

[Kevin J]

or for low temperatures.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N56268P..._dp&th%20=%201

[Kevin J]

Hi there.

More details on why I am looking..............
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=45702

Welcome views.

[Kevin J]

jasin1

thanks for all the useful tips. It has helped shaped my thinking on next steps.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Kevin J

Hi there.

More details on why I am looking..............
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=45702

Welcome views.

Why the new post? Seems more appropriate to keep this in your previous thread as it's obviously related.

[Kevin J]

Newbie error. Apologies

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Why the new post? Seems more appropriate to keep this in your previous thread as it's obviously related.

Originally Posted by Kevin J

Newbie error. Apologies

Threads merged to keep all of the discussion in one location.