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Old 10-19-2020, 08:21 AM   #1
shelby
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Smile New 5th Wheeler!

Thanks for the add to the Forum. We're brand new to 5th wheeling. Been using our tow vehicle (2002 Dodge 2500) with a camper for 4 years and love it so much. We did realize after this Covid season and lots of working from the river opportunities that there's just not enough space for long term RV fun.
This propelled us to buy a 5th wheel that I'm in LOVE with. its the 2016 Keystone Avalanche 331RE. feels like I've gone from a studio apt to a full size mansion. Excited to start our travels in a week. Let the good times roll!!
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:03 AM   #2
flybouy
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Welcome to the forum.

That's one big, heavy 5 th wheel for a 3/4 ton truck to carry. From what I see it's weight is 12,500 - over 15,000 lbs. The pin weight would be 3,000 lbs +. Look at the yellow and white sticker on the drivers door pillar where it lists the tire inflation and there you will find the payload capacity where it says " The combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed xxx lbs."
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:07 AM   #3
shelby
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Good to know!

thank you for sharing! my hubby is ready to upgrade the truck so he will be very happy to read this post!

I'll review the tag in the passenger door with him and take action as needed.

blessings!
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:19 AM   #4
flybouy
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Originally Posted by shelby View Post
thank you for sharing! my hubby is ready to upgrade the truck so he will be very happy to read this post!

I'll review the tag in the passenger door with him and take action as needed.

blessings!
That sticker is on the pillar of the door (where the door latches) on the drivers side. This is what it looks like.
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:13 PM   #5
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Welcome aboard! You jumped into 5th wheeling with a nice rig. My first thought was also about your tow vehicle. I'm glad you're looking at an upgrade. That trailer will need a minimum of a 1 ton. Stay safe and enjoy the new digs!
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Old 10-19-2020, 01:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Welcome to the forum.

That's one big, heavy 5 th wheel for a 3/4 ton truck to carry. From what I see it's weight is 12,500 - over 15,000 lbs. The pin weight would be 3,000 lbs +. Look at the yellow and white sticker on the drivers door pillar where it lists the tire inflation and there you will find the payload capacity where it says " The combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed xxx lbs."
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
That sticker is on the pillar of the door (where the door latches) on the drivers side. This is what it looks like.
Flybouy, that sticker didn’t come along until 2006 and the OP’s truck is a
2002.
That is a nice welcome to a new member to jump all over weight issues.

Shelby, your 2002 Dodge Ram does it have the camper and towing packages and the optional 265/75-16E tires?

If that is the case they likely don’t see an issue as with my old 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 with those options I carried a 2,700# pin, AND DW, myself, dog, in bed tool box and hitch account for another 1,200#. I never needed or added air bags or an other extra support to the suspension.
I was carrying 10,500# on a GVWR of 8,800# never an issue towing this way, but it bothered me being 1,700# over GVWR and eventually stepped up to a 2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW HO, Aisin, with 3.73’s.
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:22 PM   #7
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Hopefully shelby didn't take that anyone was "jumping all over them about weights" but rather giving them useful information that they may have not known, they did admit to being new to towing a 5th wheel.
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby View Post
thank you for sharing! my hubby is ready to upgrade the truck so he will be very happy to read this post!

I'll review the tag in the passenger door with him and take action as needed.

blessings!
You will not find that sticker on your 2002 Ram 2500, you will only find VIN certification label with GVWR and GAWR's.
the only way to find your available payload is to weigh the truck ready to tow and subtract from your 8,800# GVWR.

The tag will look like this;

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Old 10-19-2020, 02:33 PM   #9
flybouy
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Danny, I expect criticism from someone who admittedly towed overweight. That won't stop me from bring concerned or asking the question.
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Old 10-19-2020, 03:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Danny, I expect criticism from someone who admittedly towed overweight. That won't stop me from bring concerned or asking the question.
Well Marshal, I was sharing real world experience, instead of pointing to a label that didn't exist before 2006 on most vehicles.
In addition that yellow and white able means becomes mostly invalid once it leaves the factory. If the dealer added items to the vehicle they are not deducted from that payload. Then items the owner adds also deducts from that available payload.
The ONLY way to know truly how much payload remains is to have the vehicle ready to tow, all passengers, stuff, and hitch and weigh it front and rear axles, then look at the VIN certification label and subtract scale weights from Maximums on that label GVWR, and GAWRs. then you know where you stand.

The WORST FEATURE of 5th wheel trailers is even extremely over weight, they still tow very well and are still stable.

As I stated I didn't like being that far over GVWR, but was still within axle and tires. It was a timing and finance issue.

ON EDIT: This experience is based on having a very similar TV to the OP (Shelby). Theirs is one year newer but the same generation of Dodge/Ram the only difference is the OP's TV will have four wheel disk brakes, we had rear drum brakes. Depending on engine tweaks, transmission and rear gear, the op will likely not be happy with the performance towing that heavy of 5er with that truck. We had 3.55's and a 5 speed manual, it worked hard getting 13,000# rolling at stop lights.
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Old 10-19-2020, 03:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
You will not find that sticker on your 2002 Ram 2500, you will only find VIN certification label with GVWR and GAWR's.
the only way to find your available payload is to weigh the truck ready to tow and subtract from your 8,800# GVWR.

The tag will look like this;

Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Danny, I expect criticism from someone who admittedly towed overweight. That won't stop me from bring concerned or asking the question.
Right there with ya Marshall!
Not criticism, just information !
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Old 10-19-2020, 03:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Danny, I expect criticism from someone who admittedly towed overweight. That won't stop me from bring concerned or asking the question.
Marshal, I respect your concern, and the goal of most of us on this forum is to make those new to towing aware of TV limits and watching weights. It just struck me that the first response to a new 5er owner was a little abrupt.

As a park host I see a lot of combinations that are most likely over weight limits. I see many 5th wheels being towed by Tundras and F150's and some are not small.

This goes back to the statement in my previous post that a 5th wheels Worst Feature is it's natural stability.

I will add something for the OP to think about, our 2001 Dodge/Ram 2500 felt solid towing that way, so mind was made up. When we moved to a larger TV it was going to be a DRW, as moving to a 3500 SRW was nothing more than a lateral move, stability wise.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:06 PM   #13
Gary R.
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Hello Shelby and welcome to the forum!

You are wise to be looking for a new tow vehicle (TV) to complement your RV. As mentioned, as 1-ton truck, preferably diesel-powered, should you serve well.

Be safe and enjoy your travels in that new Avalanche!

Cheers!
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Old 10-20-2020, 05:06 AM   #14
flybouy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
You will not find that sticker on your 2002 Ram 2500, you will only find VIN certification label with GVWR and GAWR's.
the only way to find your available payload is to weigh the truck ready to tow and subtract from your 8,800# GVWR.

The tag will look like this;

Thanks for the correction and posting the helpful information. I think the OP took my concern as just that as she thanked me for it. No matter, getting the correct information is all that's important to me.
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Old 10-20-2020, 05:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Thanks for the correction and posting the helpful information. I think the OP took my concern as just that as she thanked me for it. No matter, getting the correct information is all that's important to me.
I agree, the salesman isn't going to tell them that it a lot of 5er for their TV and loose a sale.
That and when they hooked that 5er to that 2500 if it had the camper and tow packages it would not have squatted that bad.
Heck, I didn't know how much my tool box ate into my payload until I got our 2016 Ram 3500 DRW. DW and I are not small people, but once tool box, us and hitch and adapter were in the truck the truck scaled 10,000# on a GVWR of 14,000# and a sticker payload of 5,411#, so our STUFF ate 1,411#.

Once again I will state, and I think you 5er's will agree, the best feature of a 5er is what get many into weight issues.
That is the natural stability of a 5er in tow.
I would be willing to bet if you pulled in the first say 50 trucks pulling 5th wheels to a weigh station over 50% would be over GVWR, and maybe 5% to 10% might exceed rear GAWR.
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Old 10-20-2020, 08:18 AM   #16
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Welcome to the forum Shelby and congrats on the new to you Avalanche! That's a nice big trailer and should give you some "elbow" room.

It was noted that the trailer is pretty large; 12,500 dry, 15,500 gvw. You mentioned your DH would be shopping for a different tow vehicle and that would be a wise choice with that trailer. The 3/4 ton, any 3/4 ton, is not up to a 15,500lb. 5th wheel trailer. It can pull (tow) the trailer but it can't carry the load (payload) - 2 very different things. Tell DW to pay attention to those white/yellow/black stickers (and the gray) and look for the indicated payload. If you full time in the trailer and max it out at gvw you would be looking at a 3100# pin weight for the trailer alone (load). You then add everything else you can think of that goes in the truck and it is added to that. So, if the trailer was 3100 and people, animals, goodies, ice chest, tools, cribbing blocks etc. came to 750 it would come to 3850lbs. Now if you figure in a safety cushion (I like at least 10%)= 385 lbs. + 3850 = 4235#. You can take that number and open the doors on the prospective trucks and look at the yellow sticker to check payload; it needs to be around that number. There are some variables that might affect the number a bit but it would only muddy the water. If you have any questions feel free to post them - someone will answer them correctly.

As you have seen, weight topics are a big concern for us, particularly with someone new to towing or 5th wheels because there is huge safety issue involved. We all take the matter very seriously and try to make anyone that might possibly be unaware conscious of the situation and the various ramifications. Have fun in the new trailer and good luck in choosing that new truck. Keep us posted.
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Old 10-25-2020, 11:37 AM   #17
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Ram 2500

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby View Post
Thanks for the add to the Forum. We're brand new to 5th wheeling. Been using our tow vehicle (2002 Dodge 2500) with a camper for 4 years and love it so much. We did realize after this Covid season and lots of working from the river opportunities that there's just not enough space for long term RV fun.
This propelled us to buy a 5th wheel that I'm in LOVE with. its the 2016 Keystone Avalanche 331RE. feels like I've gone from a studio apt to a full size mansion. Excited to start our travels in a week. Let the good times roll!!
WE pull a overloaded 35 foot Raptor Fifth Wheel Toy Hauler with our 2007 2500 Ram Cummins Diesel with Air Ride System added by me. We have had full deletes done along with intake revisions and exhaust corrections. We see 14.7 pulling the rig and around 30 mpg empty. No problems to date after 100k miles. The labels are BS frankly.
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Old 10-25-2020, 03:33 PM   #18
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Frosty, I’m calling BS on your post. Most here would be more polite, but not get their point across.
Might I ask what you’re suggesting the OP should do?
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Old 10-25-2020, 03:57 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
Frosty, I’m calling BS on your post. Most here would be more polite, but not get their point across.
Might I ask what you’re suggesting the OP should do?

Now, now....that's not total BS:

WE pull a overloaded 35 foot Raptor Fifth Wheel Toy Hauler with our 2007 2500 Ram Cummins Diesel

That sentence is pretty aboveboard!
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Old 10-25-2020, 04:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
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WE pull a overloaded 35 foot Raptor Fifth Wheel Toy Hauler with our 2007 2500 Ram Cummins Diesel with Air Ride System added by me. We have had full deletes done along with intake revisions and exhaust corrections. We see 14.7 pulling the rig and around 30 mpg empty. No problems to date after 100k miles. The labels are BS frankly.

Frosty, Frosty. Are you the guy I saw in a video pulling the space shuttle with his 2500? - thinking all is OK and telling everyone to do the same?

The OP has bought a new, heavier, 5th wheel that is too much for a 3/4 ton - that is just a fact. Will it make it roll? Surely. Will it be safe? Surely not.

There are some folks that believe if they have enough truck to make a load roll...they have enough truck - that is ludicrous. Some do it and know they're overloaded as you have stated - that is your prerogative. It is not wise, nor right, to endorse that behavior to others. Hmmm, federally mandated labels (weight limits) "are BS frankly". I think your statements illustrate how you view towing responsibility but in no way should those views, when knowing they are wrong, be foisted on folks that might have no idea - it is irresponsible.
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