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Old 09-04-2020, 11:40 AM   #1
lunge motorsport
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Bilstein dampeners

In regards to the comments and recommendations I frequently see on this forum regarding Bilstein dampeners…



I was first introduced to this product by my engineer brother in the late 70’s while in my teens. At that time, I was beginning to put together an old BMW (picture in signature) as my primary road car. So, every vehicle I have owned since that time was equipped with them if they were available. Using them vastly improved the ride quality and road manners on whatever vehicle they were installed on. I will say this though, they have different calibrated spec’s depending on the specific need required for many different applications. In other words, compression and rebound dampening rates vary between series of shocks with fitment stated for a particular model.


It is due to this that I feel compelled to create this post and provide some worthwhile information for those that will consider purchasing this product for their tow vehicle.


When I purchased my 2013 GMC, I hadn’t yet purchased my 5th wheel but I did own a travel trailer. I was less concerned about the trucks unloaded ride stiffness and more concerned with what worked best on a heavily loaded stock ride height truck. The research began and I was looking at everything I could find in regard to the difference between the 5100 series and the 4600 series Bilstein’s that were spec’d for my truck. At that time there was not a lot of definitive info available although I did find one blogger that had some actual numbers that were reviewable. His research indicated that the 4600 series dampeners were specifically designed with tow vehicle applications in mind. His comparisons between the 4600 and 5100 series compression and rebound rates showed this to be true. 4600 series are valved stiffer than 5100 series. At that point I wanted verification so I made a call to Bilstein Technical. Bilstein confirmed that the 4600 series were valved stiffer as users generally don't lift trucks that are intended for heavy hauling and that the 5100 series are designed for trucks used in off road applications. He stated that 5100 series dampeners show different part numbers for trucks that are lifted 2, 4, and even 6’’. His explanation was simple. Off road trucks require more articulation and less stiffness in the dampeners, this allows the suspension to work better on uneven road surfaces.


I purchased the 4600 series for my application and I also added their steering stabilizer. These have performed well for the last 40,000 miles and were a great improvement in overall ride quality under all conditions. They replaced the stock dampeners when the truck had less than 3000 miles.


My friend has a 2019 F 350 Lariat that he is complaining of poor ride quality, of course I made my recommendation of the 4600 series. He was really pushing the 5100 series units because of the larger product ID designation. I then gave him all of the info I just posted here, I’ll wait and see which way he goes.


I have seen many posts of complaints made by people who have purchased 5100 series shock absorbers with little improvement over the stock shock absorbers. I would attribute this to a misapplication of product and not to the quality of the brand.


I would recommend that if you’re considering changing your shock absorbers that you do your own research that would include a call to Bilstein to verify information.


Happy travels!
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Old 09-04-2020, 12:47 PM   #2
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Thanks Darrel
I guess like most I wasn't happy with the stock shocks on my 2017 GMC 1500. I switched to the 5100's and was very happy with the result. I was also concerned because I was now towing a trailer and although it did not squat, the thought of being near max capacity, I wanted to ensure that I was safe and installed the ride rite air bags. It worked for me, I had the ride I wanted unloaded and the ride I wanted loaded.

With the new (to me) 5er and new truck, I think when it's time I will be a little less reactive and research this a little deeper. The new truck doesn't squat, holds the trailer nicely, and I am getting used to the stiffer ride, when it starts to get a little older I will then keep this in mind. Thanks for the post.
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Old 09-04-2020, 01:08 PM   #3
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Hmmm... this article say different. I want Bilsteins but confused. I guess as I have a 2" rear lift I should go with the 5100's.

https://www.shocksurplus.com/pages/b...es-the-lowdown

The 5100 series has had a strong lead in the consumer offroad segment of weekend warriors and offroad enthusiast for the last decade. The Bilstein 5100 zinc plated monotube shock is described by Bilstein as being more oriented for lifted trucks, heavier-than-stock vehicles, trucks or Jeeps running larger wheels and tires, and basically anything modified and not factory.

The 5100 shocks DO RIDE FIRMER than stock, do not be mistaken. The 5100s are valved slightly firmer in case of bigger wheels and tires (+unsprung weight), or added offroad equipment.

The response will be different though depending on what vehicle you have, a heavy duty 3/4 ton or 1-ton vehicle will respond differently on these shocks than a smaller half ton or Jeep vehicle that doesn't throw around as much weight.
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Old 09-04-2020, 05:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooksFam View Post
Hmmm... this article say different. I want Bilsteins but confused. I guess as I have a 2" rear lift I should go with the 5100's.

https://www.shocksurplus.com/pages/b...es-the-lowdown

The 5100 series has had a strong lead in the consumer offroad segment of weekend warriors and offroad enthusiast for the last decade. The Bilstein 5100 zinc plated monotube shock is described by Bilstein as being more oriented for lifted trucks, heavier-than-stock vehicles, trucks or Jeeps running larger wheels and tires, and basically anything modified and not factory.

The 5100 shocks DO RIDE FIRMER than stock, do not be mistaken. The 5100s are valved slightly firmer in case of bigger wheels and tires (+unsprung weight), or added offroad equipment.

The response will be different though depending on what vehicle you have, a heavy duty 3/4 ton or 1-ton vehicle will respond differently on these shocks than a smaller half ton or Jeep vehicle that doesn't throw around as much weight.
The 5100's I bought had a 0 - 2" lift and you moved the circlip to the set grooves depending on if you wanted lift or not.
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Old 09-04-2020, 05:30 PM   #5
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BrooksFam…


I watched the video that you have linked and while it does contradict what I have written, it is not info provided by Bilstein. That doesn't mean it isn't accurate but I still stand by the comments I have made as I actually spoke with Bilstein Technical when researching and they quoted me compression and rebound dampening numbers for both shocks. It would be nice to get a definitive answer direct from their technical dept. but It doesn’t look that that will be possible until the Covid scare is finished. If somebody has those numbers, I would be very interested in seeing them again and set this to rest.

If I were in your situation I may also consider the 5100 series and note the fitment for a 2’’ lift, at least on the rear. In my situation with a stock height truck and near 3k lb payload, I did experience some squat. Like Dan, I corrected this using air bags so that my unloaded ride height would remain stock. I consider this to be the optimal set up. I chose the Air Lyft 7500 series as they have a much larger air bag that have a higher volume of air in them. My reasoning was that I could run much lower pressure in them to maintain the ride height and not stiffen the ride to severely. I run only about 28 psi to level the ride now. Prior to the air bags I tried the Timbren overload “springs”. They replace the factory bump stop and are very easy to install. They did partially correct the sag but were brutally harsh on large compression inputs. For me they could only be described as jarring. I could not tolerate the ride they provided.


BTW, I looked into speaking with a Bilstein Tech Rep directly prior to constructing my post but their website no longer lists a technical number.


Cheers
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Old 09-09-2020, 06:07 PM   #6
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Since my last post regarding Bilsteins I have been in email contact with a Technical and Warranty Specialist at Thyssenkrupp Bilstein and have explained my interest in the actual numbers regarding dampening ratings between the 5100 and 4600 series shocks. I explained what and why I would like this information and that I will post his reply on a forum. I used my vehicle, a 2013 GMC 4x4 ext cab 6.0 gas engine as an example. After explaining to me as much as he was willing to share, he mentioned that he would prefer that I did not post their replies to contact form inquiries. So, to stay within his request, I will paraphrase his comments.


There is no duty difference between the 4600 and 5100 series options, instead they are purpose built dampers. Basically 4100 series are designed for stock ride height vehicles. He mentioned that the GMC has primitive suspension and that these vehicles suffer from accelerated wear due to the suspension design and components. He mentioned this specifically with the added comment that 5100 series are designed for lifted vehicles and are designed longer. Using them on stock height will cause the shock to constantly contact the internal service stops causing additional wear on an already under designed steering system. He said it is not simply a choice of what to use but that customers are “expected” to use their products as intended. He followed with the comment. If it was really as easy as running a 5100 series on a stock ride height vehicle, do you really think that Bilstein would tool and manufacture appropriately the 4600 series? This is why we will continue to design and build vehicle specific products, no matter how large/small the differences.


So, they will not give out proprietary valving info as there is a lot of R&D involved. My take away is that they should be used as designed, for best results.



I accept his comments and will continue to recommend in the manner that I have based on direct correspondence with Bilstein Technical.


Cheers
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Old 09-09-2020, 06:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunge motorsport View Post
Since my last post regarding Bilsteins I have been in email contact with a Technical and Warranty Specialist at Thyssenkrupp Bilstein and have explained my interest in the actual numbers regarding dampening ratings between the 5100 and 4600 series shocks. I explained what and why I would like this information and that I will post his reply on a forum. I used my vehicle, a 2013 GMC 4x4 ext cab 6.0 gas engine as an example. After explaining to me as much as he was willing to share, he mentioned that he would prefer that I did not post their replies to contact form inquiries. So, to stay within his request, I will paraphrase his comments.


There is no duty difference between the 4600 and 5100 series options, instead they are purpose built dampers. Basically 4100 series are designed for stock ride height vehicles. He mentioned that the GMC has primitive suspension and that these vehicles suffer from accelerated wear due to the suspension design and components. He mentioned this specifically with the added comment that 5100 series are designed for lifted vehicles and are designed longer. Using them on stock height will cause the shock to constantly contact the internal service stops causing additional wear on an already under designed steering system. He said it is not simply a choice of what to use but that customers are “expected” to use their products as intended. He followed with the comment. If it was really as easy as running a 5100 series on a stock ride height vehicle, do you really think that Bilstein would tool and manufacture appropriately the 4600 series? This is why we will continue to design and build vehicle specific products, no matter how large/small the differences.


So, they will not give out proprietary valving info as there is a lot of R&D involved. My take away is that they should be used as designed, for best results.



I accept his comments and will continue to recommend in the manner that I have based on direct correspondence with Bilstein Technical.


Cheers
uh... I've had the 5100 series rear shocks on non-lifted trucks before. It was stated to me, on several dealer's websites that the 5100 was for stock up to 2" lifted vehicles and they were spec'd for my stock truck(s). What I have seen contradicts what you were told. Guess I'll go look around the globe again. I sure liked the 5100s too...

edit: Guess I should add that the 4600 series are the same shocks that toyota puts on their TRD version trucks. So the 4600 is a stock shock in some instances where a Toyota is involved. TRD... ho-hum. I'd still rather have the 5100s as I've owned all three versions, 4600s (stock TRD), 5100 aftermarket upgrade, and the stock non-bilsteins that come with a non-TRD Toyota.
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Old 09-10-2020, 01:41 AM   #8
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Thanks for your info. It matches what information I have found on the internet (all facts, right? ) The 5100 series are what I need cuz I'm lifted 2" in the rear.
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Old 09-10-2020, 03:50 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by BrooksFam View Post
Thanks for your info. It matches what information I have found on the internet (all facts, right? ) The 5100 series are what I need cuz I'm lifted 2" in the rear.
The 5100 series rear shocks on a Tundra and a Tacoma was night and day from the stock OEM non-TRD shock. Handling was greatly improved IMO on both vehicles. I’ve owned several of both trucks over the years and I’ve made the change in shocks within the first year or so on both models. I would think you’ll have similar results on your truck. As far as front struts in a 5100? Horrible. Way too stiff. Rode with a set for about 5k miles and pulled them off and put the stock OEM struts back on. All good after that.
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Old 09-12-2020, 12:04 PM   #10
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Modifications and upgrades are something I spend a lot of time thinking about prior to starting a project. I’m not saying that everything I do is the best possible solution, but I try to consider both sides of an equation. Simple upgrades, like shock absorber replacement, is still something that requires careful thought as much as any other upgrade.



My initial post in regard to Bilstein was to provide as much information as I have to the uninformed and those that are considering the upgrade.


For those in the forum world that have installed 5100 series dampers on non-lifted trucks, okay, so you did. It is obvious to me that the manufacturer does not recommend or endorse that as the proper application of their product and I don’t really care if you choose them or not. You may have improved performance over stock or even over other aftermarket dampers but could you have possibly experienced even better results using the manufacturers recommendations.


Everyone makes choices and that’s what makes the forum interesting. I read a lot of posts that I don’t agree with and many opinions from people who profess knowledge on subjects that they believe to be informed about. I discard much that I read from forums but I often gain a lot of insight and ideas that I use. I have many reply’s to threads that I have written but decided not to post. Sometimes I reread them and realize that there is no real value to what I have written because there are subtle variations to issues, coaches, and personal experiences and my input won’t address those.


As a user of tools and a builder of things for many years I understand there are many solutions to any given mechanical problem and more than one of them can be right. I’m also not the cut and dry always go with conventional knowledge or go by the book guy. I will vary my approach and my opinion can be changed with a reasonable argument.


So…my hope is that my suggestions and comments here help those that are asking for it. If you don’t agree with what I say, by all means make a comment or just flat out straighten me out.



Cheers
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:34 PM   #11
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Not to argue, but Bilstein 5100 shocks are available for the rear of a "standard OEM height 2015 F250 Lariat. Shock number 24-186025 is listed for trucks 0"-1" lift. https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/produ...55516708740713

While the 4600 series "may" be a better fit for many "standard height trucks", it's incorrect to say that "Bilstein does not recommend the 5100 shocks for non-lifted trucks in every application."
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:42 PM   #12
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When I initially upgraded to Bilstein 5100s I visited with not only the seller but Bilstein (Thyssencrupp). I was told on my 2014 Ram 2500, HD, 4x4 that the 5100 was applicable with the 0-1"? lift and that it would better serve me on that large of a vehicle pulling a 10k trailer....so I bought them and did not regret it. In later talks that is confirmed as well on their website, product descriptions and distributors. I'm happy with them and others can use what they think works for them.
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:43 PM   #13
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^^^^ Same goes for the Tundra (and Tacoma for that matter). As I've mentioned, the 4600 series is used on Toyota's TRD version vehicles. IMO, the 5100 does a much better job than the 4600 or the standard OEM shock. But this is only my opinion. BTDT with over 700,000 miles of daily driving those various Toyotas under my right and left foot. "Your mileage will vary."
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Old 09-13-2020, 04:24 AM   #14
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Bilstein 5100's have been on my stock height truck since 2012 and over 80k miles with no issues, if they blew out today I would replace them with the same. Great ride loaded and empty.
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Old 09-13-2020, 04:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Not to argue, but Bilstein 5100 shocks are available for the rear of a "standard OEM height 2015 F250 Lariat. Shock number 24-186025 is listed for trucks 0"-1" lift. https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/produ...55516708740713

While the 4600 series "may" be a better fit for many "standard height trucks", it's incorrect to say that "Bilstein does not recommend the 5100 shocks for non-lifted trucks in every application."
60K miles on the dually running the 5100's .... now y'all tell me they don't fit
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Old 09-13-2020, 07:57 AM   #16
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60K miles on the dually running the 5100's .... now y'all tell me they don't fit
I'm not saying they don't fit... Hell they are on my "non-lifted F250" and have been for better than 45K of its 60K miles. Even "if they don't fit" they "fit when I installed them" and "the ride is still better than the OEM shocks they replaced"...

When I contacted Bilstein (on their website) to ask which was the "best fit" for my truck, the explanation I got (if I remember that long deleted email) was that either would work well for my application (stock F250 4x4 Lariat CC short bed). Whoever answered my questions went on to state that the 5100's offered "more piston travel" than the 4600 shocks and were "better suited for off road/rough road use".... So, I chose the 5100's based on the recommendation from Bilstein that either would work "equally well" on my stock height truck and the fact that I regularly drive through the countryside on roads that are best driven by ATV's and UTV's....

If you're wrong, then I'm wrong too.... Happy, even if I am wrong
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:24 AM   #17
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I'm not saying they don't fit... Hell they are on my "non-lifted F250" and have been for better than 45K of its 60K miles. Even "if they don't fit" they "fit when I installed them" and "the ride is still better than the OEM shocks they replaced"...

When I contacted Bilstein (on their website) to ask which was the "best fit" for my truck, the explanation I got (if I remember that long deleted email) was that either would work well for my application (stock F250 4x4 Lariat CC short bed). Whoever answered my questions went on to state that the 5100's offered "more piston travel" than the 4600 shocks and were "better suited for off road/rough road use".... So, I chose the 5100's based on the recommendation from Bilstein that either would work "equally well" on my stock height truck and the fact that I regularly drive through the countryside on roads that are best driven by ATV's and UTV's....

If you're wrong, then I'm wrong too.... Happy, even if I am wrong
I knew you weren't... I actually bought the 5100's for the '12 F250 but never got around to putting them on... when I got the dually I looked it up and they fit it too... so.... after 20K I installed them and never looked back...

Probably gonna replace them soon judging by the ride lately... but I'll go back with the 5100's for sure
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:53 AM   #18
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I knew you weren't... I actually bought the 5100's for the '12 F250 but never got around to putting them on... when I got the dually I looked it up and they fit it too... so.... after 20K I installed them and never looked back...

Probably gonna replace them soon judging by the ride lately... but I'll go back with the 5100's for sure
I believe the Bilstein lifetime warranty covers the installation on the original vehicle to the original purchaser for as long as he owns the truck. So, even if you bought them for the F250, but never used them on that truck, the "original truck" should be the F350 dually. You might contact them to ask... It might get you a "free set" if there is an issue with ride quality.
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