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Old 12-14-2015, 10:20 AM   #1
omextreme
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New Montana HC, slide Jammed tearing wall from frame

We have had to abandon our camper at a campground due to a slide failure and need advise.

When trying to retract our main dinette / couch slide it started to jam and slow. I let go of the switch immediately and went to investigate and the wall just ripped free from the frame while i was looking at it. I guess there was enough tension on the bottom pulley which is anchored to the wall to tear the wall from the floor of the unit.

We left the camper on the site and called keystone this AM. Their suggestion is to call a mobile tech out to retract the slides and take in for service. However they will not pay for the mobile tech service call fee! They were very friendly but i am shocked that they will not cover the trip fee for the tech to come out, nor will they reimburse me the 4 days I have to pay site fees until the tech can come out.

They are only willing to pay his hourly once on site.

Now in the big picture the Call fee is $85 and the camping fees will be approx $120 but I feel as though they should really be paying this expense since my unit is only 3 months old.

Is this the norm?

Adam
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Old 12-14-2015, 02:09 PM   #2
dcg9381
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Might be a non-issue (on the tech side) if the tech applies their "service fee" to the cost of the repair... That's mainly what they do around here anyway. If so, perhaps some "creative invoicing" is required.

What year/model is that camper?
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Old 12-14-2015, 02:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg9381 View Post
Might be a non-issue (on the tech side) if the tech applies their "service fee" to the cost of the repair... That's mainly what they do around here anyway. If so, perhaps some "creative invoicing" is required.

What year/model is that camper?
2015 Montana High Country 340 BH
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Old 12-14-2015, 07:44 PM   #4
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I'm interested in hearing the cause and resolution on this one. I'm new to slides and want to learn all I can about their operation.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:24 PM   #5
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Tom, does your passport have cable operated slides? If not, might be apples to oranges... Lots of pulleys and cables in the system with the Montana (applies to other models) - there has been at least one recall.
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Old 12-15-2015, 02:50 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by dcg9381 View Post
Tom, does your passport have cable operated slides? If not, might be apples to oranges... Lots of pulleys and cables in the system with the Montana (applies to other models) - there has been at least one recall.
Yes, my slide is all cables and pulleys. When I saw the cable in the pictures I knew mine was similar. My slide is a full 150" too.

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Old 12-15-2015, 04:02 PM   #7
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I'm interested in hearing the cause and resolution on this one. I'm new to slides and want to learn all I can about their operation.
Think of it as a nordic track weight system timed with pulley.
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Old 12-16-2015, 12:15 PM   #8
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Got the slide retracted, 2 guys pushing it in from the outside and another pressing the switch to take up the slack in the cables. moved about 1/2" at a time but finally back in place.

Looked more closely at the structure failure and I am dissapointed in Keystone on this one. The vertical side wall support was only welded on 1 side to the lower frame. The aluminum tubing tore where it was welded. This location is an EXTREMELY high stress spot since the entire weight of the slide leverages against it.

This area SHOULD have been reinforced with more metal or at least heaver strength aluminum.

It appears that the previous repair to the roller failed, The actual roller is seized and the underlining of the slide was ripped again by the roller not rolling and it jammed up pinching between the non rolling roller and the bottom of the slide.

Now the question is how should this be properly repaired, It this something you would trust the local shop to handle or should I push for this unit to go back to Keystone and be repaired there?

Thanks
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Old 12-23-2015, 06:52 PM   #9
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Start by saying - I dunno, can't get an idea of how much metal there is, if any, that is significant enough to weld on to. Plus if it's aluminum, we're talking TIG, which will may narrow weld-repair options.

I'd honestly take good photos and ask more than one shop "how" they'd repair it...
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Old 01-17-2016, 09:08 AM   #10
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Update, the trailer is now empty and sitting at the dealer. The dealer is requesting keystone pickup the unit and return it to the factory. My contact with keystone has been pretty smooth so far but the dealer has not heard back from the "Line manager" at Keystone about a transport time frame.

Questions for the experts or at least more knowledgeable folks here.

Do i need to worry about the side wall de-laminating in the future from all the stretching / twisting / warping during the slide failure and diagnosis. (the dealer apparently opened and closed the slide to see what I was saying and now the tear is larger as well as the carpet destroyed where the slide overlaps)

Additionally I have a laundry list of other small concerns, should those be addressed to keystone or do I let the local dealer work them out?

Kitchen sink has come unglued and fallen
Header over the fridge / stove slide fell off
Sewage smell coming from the basement
basement hatches dont seal, If i sit inside and close them I can see 1/2" light in some areas
Front A/C was missing from the factory build (even though it was on the build sheet) and installed at the selling dealer after the PDI
Constant Left Front leveler failure errors
Roof ladder ripped out of screw holes in top mounts.
trim under front fiber glass cap has had the screws pull out / strip.

I expected some issues with it being a new unit and the above list although long is in my mind relatively minor, I am just starting to stress about the slide repair and the other issues are starting to seem like a bigger deal.

This unit is supposed to last us through the "family camping" portion of our lives and after shelling out 45k I really need it to last!

Any thoughts or insight would be most welcome.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:10 AM   #11
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If it were me, I'd make an appointment with my dealer to arrange a meeting with him/her to discuss your "laundry list" of issues that you have listed above. (I'd omit the front A/C since it looks like it has been installed.)

While you are at the dealership, you can point out all of these concerns in person rather than by phone or email. A face-to-face congenial meeting can go a long way in solving problems. For your own records, I'd prepare a detailed written list of those items that are in need of repair/replacement - one for the dealer and one for yourself- and make a note of what the dealer is prepared to do to address these issues.

I don't see much sense in starting this process with Keystone since they won't authorize anything without having first "talked" to the dealer. Keystone would be looking for photos and a report from the dealer about the issues. Likewise, the dealer won't make any repairs until Keystone has authorized them.

Bottom line - start with the dealer.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:20 AM   #12
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This is strictly my opinion, so rely on it for it's worth: My opinion only.....

I would suppose that if Keystone does return the trailer to the factory, they will most likely remove the entire side and replace it. The side, all 30+ feet of it, is a single unit, vacuum bonded into a "single section". Any attempt to "cut/replace" a section would not provide the unity found in a new component. So, I'd suspect they will "remove/replace" the side rather than attempt to repair damaged "internal structural parts" of the construction.

As for identifying the other problems, I'd make absolutely sure that Keystone is aware of every issue with the trailer. While they have the slide out, the side off and access to everything would be the "right time" to repair the remaining issues. You really don't want Keystone to repair the side, install new carpet, reinstall the slide and then have your dealer start "cutting/gluing/rebuilding the inner components like cabinets, countertops and plumbing. The "right time" to do all of that would be (in my opinion) while the trailer is in a state of "disassembly" so that as it's put back together, it doesn't have to "come apart again" to facilitate minor repairs.

Do you have any indication that Keystone has agreed to returning the trailer to Indiana? Or are you at the point in time that the dealer has requested it but the factory has not yet responded to the request?

I wish you luck with this, it's a major disappointment and won't be resolved in a week or two. This will probably be a "time consuming venture" lasting through the winter and likely well into spring.

ADDED: I see that as I was typing my thoughts, Festus2 was also responding. His suggestion to sit down with the dealership and work as a team is very appropriate. If I were you, I wouldn't attempt to discuss anything with Keystone without the dealership being "right there and a part of the conversation". The last thing you need in this situation is a "he said/she said" kind of argument between you, the dealer and Keystone in which any party is not completely knowledgeable of what the others are saying and/or have agreed to do......
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:36 AM   #13
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I have sat down with my service advisor on this and he says that they can tackle the small stuff while waiting to transport the unit back to keystone. Or we can request keystone do it.
As far as keystone approving the trip back i am not % 100 that it is fully approved yet. My advisor has stated that they will not attempt a warranty repair like this at their shop. They are a huge dealer and have a full body shop so i know their unwillingness is not for lack of capability.

Does a mfg ever just say its easier - better to just replace a unit? It has never even been titled yet.

I have been in contact with keystone directly on this since we got stuck and had to involve a mobile tech to get it moved. The rep has just been making sure we got it to the "best" dealer for our needs. I have not have talked specifics with her and dont plan to go around the dealer when talking to keystone so as not to slow down - confuse the process

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Old 01-24-2016, 05:48 AM   #14
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if you get it to the factory give them the list, they should deal with those issues to.
it would be great for you to get a date of when they were to take it in and have yourself take it to goshen and talk to them directly and show them the issues.

we've done that on 2 of our montanas, but of course we are retired.
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:55 AM   #15
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As of Friday keystone will not approve the return. They initially told us that they would go on the recommendation of the service center now they have changed their minds. Instead they have approved 16 hours of labor to tear our the interior wall and remove the slide to assess the damage further.

At this point I am really starting to get frustrated. We have now been in the shop 120 of the 150 days we have owned it.

I am also concerned that the local repair will not have time to be fully tested before the warranty expires.
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:28 PM   #16
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tell them on this repair you want a life time warranty ..... also, rvs used to have a rack and pinion system.. Why go to a cable system?? Cheaper??? it sure in the heck aint better in my opinion...
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:33 PM   #17
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At this point I am really starting to get frustrated. We have now been in the shop 120 of the 150 days we have owned it.

I am also concerned that the local repair will not have time to be fully tested before the warranty expires.
1) What state are you in?
2) Ask for Keystone to extend the warranty by the repair time. Document your 120-days to date.

Depending on the "skill" of my local dealer, I might be inclined to get it back to the factory, even if I had to deal with some of the cost.




Quote:
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tell them on this repair you want a life time warranty ..... also, rvs used to have a rack and pinion system.. Why go to a cable system?? Cheaper??? it sure in the heck aint better in my opinion...

1) Never heard of Keystone offering a "forever" repair.. Never heard of anyone offering long term warranties on systems like slides.

2) Cable systems are certainly lighter. Maybe cheaper. However, even complex slide systems can have problems.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:57 AM   #18
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We just bought a 2016 HC 370BR which has a big slide on the dinette and theater seat also, will have to keep and eye on it when we start using it. This could obviously cause some major issues. Would think buying something at $60k+ structural issues wouldn't an issue but then again...

Hopefully all goes well on your end and everything is resolved.
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Old 02-04-2016, 04:20 PM   #19
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In the shop 4 of the last 5 months? A shop doing the work they suggested the factory take over? At this point I would have offered to take it to and pick it up from the factory to eliminate that cost for them. If that fails I think I may be close to talking to a product lawyer to protect my interest, not to bring a suit ~~~ yet.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:36 PM   #20
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I'm thinking that asking Keystone about you delivering it is a good idea. You may also want to talk with a lawyer and look at your state's lemon laws. I wish you the best.
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