Is this bad? Very thin roof bubbles.

[TASF]Overkill · 03-10-2015, 06:32 PM

Bought a 2009 Sprinter 264BHS. Previous owners said they had the roof recoated, I think, due to some kind of issue. It looked good, but I didn't have a ladder and wasn't sure if it was a walk-on or what. Had an RV dealer check it out before buying. They were somewhat thorough. But alas... This seems like an expense in the making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCe6jRTN_MA

The roof is wet and there is a little bit of dirt swirling around there, don't get distratcted by that. There are bubbles like this most of the way along the awning-side. The skin of the bubble is very thin. The surface underneath is firm, doesn't feel like rotting wood or anything thank goodness. We are reaching out to the previous owners (who have been very communicative and helpful) to see if there is a warranty on the roof and who installed it. Hindsight here is thick. If the answer is radio silence... What am I looking at here?

GaryWT · 03-10-2015, 06:43 PM

It seems weird that water is puddling there. Does it seem like a air bubble because it looks like there is water under there but maybe it is the video. Are there any signs of a leak inside.

Festus2 · 03-10-2015, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [TASF]Overkill

The roof is wet and there is a little bit of dirt swirling around there, don't get distratcted by that. There are bubbles like this most of the way along the awning-side. The skin of the bubble is very thin. The surface underneath is firm, doesn't feel like rotting wood or anything thank goodness. We are reaching out to the previous owners (who have been very communicative and helpful) to see if there is a warranty on the roof and who installed it. Hindsight here is thick. If the answer is radio silence... What am I looking at here?

A number of members have reported bubbling on their roof but I can't recall anyone indicating that there was "water" under the bubbles - air, yes, but not water. Some minor bubbling is not uncommon as long as it remains "minor" and does not spread or the bubbles become larger and larger with time.

There is a warranty on the original EPDM roof but it only applies to the original owner so in your case it looks like you would not have a claim here. It would be beneficial for you to find out as much as you can about the roof from the original owner ---- was the entire roof replaced? what materials were used? when was it applied and for what reason?

My concern would be what looks like water inside the bubble. There may not be any rot now but if left, water and wood don't mix well. I'd leave it out in the open so that it can "warm up" and see what, if any, changes take place to the bubble or the water inside it. It's not something I would leave and hope it will go away --- it does have the potential to cause problems.

A possible "fix" might be to make tiny holes in the bubble(s) and squeeze as much water out as you can and let it dry. After it dries thoroughly, clean it and apply Eternabond roof tape and cover that with Dicor self-leveling sealant.

Keep in touch and let us know what you can find out about the "history" of the roof.

**JRTJH** · 03-10-2015, 07:50 PM

Loooking at the video, it does not appear that the surface is EPDM or TPO. Rather it looks like a "Seal Kote" surface coating. If you look at the aluminum edge molding on the vertical part of the trailer wall, it also appears to be covered with this coating. If I'm correct, then what the previous owners apparently did was have the original roof "coated" or "sealed" rather than have the roof membrane removed and replaced. If this is what happened, then somewhere there's a "hole" or "leak" and water is getting under the "Seal Kote" and pooling on the original EPDM roof membrane.

Is it "bad" ??? Likely not, but I'd suspect that whoever did the application didn't do a really good job and somewhere there are voids or places where water can get under the coating.

Once you get the roof completely dry (on the surface) you might consider using your fingers and pulling the "bubble" up. It will probably tear and the water that's under it will flow out. Applying another coating of the sealant isn't difficult, but finding the place where the water got under the coating will be the key to successfully stopping any damage.

If you're not "up to the task" or are unsure of what you've got, most RV service dealerships can inspect it and give you advice or perform the repair. Keep in mind that a complete removal of the EPDM roofing material and replacement will likely cost upwards of $8-10 thousand.

If you can get the original owners to explain "exactly" what they did and why, you may find that they had "issues" in another location and the EPDM roofing under the area of your concern is undamaged. If that's the situation, then just reapplying the coating should be sufficient.

Keep in mind, that if they applied the coating to make the trailer look better so they could sell it, they may not have used an approved coating material. In that case, I'd seek the advice of DICOR, the original manufacturer of the membrane and follow their advice. Applying the wrong kind of sealant can damage the roofing membrane beyond repair.

Good Luck and keep us posted on what you find......

ADDED: The original roofing membrane is about as thick as a truck innertube. The surface you are pushing around in the video is much too thin to be the EPDM roofing. That is why I say it's a coating of some kind, not the original or even a replacement roofing membrane. Nothing to my knowledge is that thin and pliable. EPDM and TPO roofing is much more rigid and doesn't "float" on water like that.

[TASF]Overkill · 03-11-2015, 12:48 PM

Replying en masse since you all had many of the same concerns.

It has been raining for a few days and this is just the first time I've been able to get up on a ladder to look closely at the roof. Was measuring for solar panels when I noticed. Hell it was raining while I filmed that! That's why there's so much water on the roof. Not sure if the transition from roof to gutter looks wrong, this is my first camper.

There are no signs of a leak inside.

It does seem like an air bubble to me, but because it is soooo thin, it kind of behaves like a water bubble.

The original owners called us back and shared the dealership that recoated the roof... But they apparently misunderstood what I meant by "bubbles". They seemed to be referring to the waviness of the roof. We're playing phone tag, so will tag back and clarify.

The surface is not EPDM, I think I understand that... But is a flexible coating. I don't know enough about how these are constructed, unfortunately. It's rubbery-plasticy, and some areas the "bubbles" are thicker than others. In the spot shared previously, the bubbles are VERY thin, so I know this isn't the roof itself, but a coating.

More crappy video of a differnet spot on that edge of roof: http://youtu.be/tUtNqtgQAO4

Sorry, being on a ladder in the rain with one hand and poor light makes for a crappy video. But you can see that on this spot of the roof, the membrane is thicker where it is "Detached". This didn't bother me, seemed like it might be normal. But there were some thin spots just up from it. I start playing with that around 0:12. When I look back towards the back of the camper, you can see the bubbles from the previous video poking up above the bit of standing water. My trailer is level.

Ken / Claudia · 03-11-2015, 01:03 PM

I had to seal kote my 40ft park trailer roof. As I recall the trailer said do it every 5 years. It was at the coast I did mine at 2 or 3 years and it never leaked but, did get those bubbles. Sold it it 2008, that owner has never resealed and large areas of the coating is lifting. So, if it has been more than 2 years, do it again. Clean it first, use a primmer than coat it.

[TASF]Overkill · 03-11-2015, 02:24 PM

I showed this to one of our local RV places and they said it wasn't anything to worry about. It indicates improper surface prep, but shouldn't hurt anything. When the bubbles burst, scrape back the bits that aren't adhering and then dicor it "if you want". This guy wasn't the "roof guy"... but... I'm at least not horrified.

**JRTJH** · 03-11-2015, 02:25 PM

I agree with Ken. My only concern would be what type of coating was applied by the previous owner and cleaning/prepping enough to remove all the old coating material that obviously isn't adhered to the original EPDM roof. Applying new coating over a bubble will just make for a "thicker" bubble that still isn't adhering to the roof, so some consideration on how to best apply the new coating and how to prepare the surface is warranted.

It's not "rocket science" but more just being thorough and doing a good job to prep what isn't adhering at present and then applying something that will stick properly and not damage what's already there...

Good Luck

[TASF]Overkill · 03-11-2015, 04:08 PM

JRTJH and Ken, is your recommendation to puncture and cut out the bubbles so that I can get to the poorly prepped areas underneath and recoat those areas?

**JRTJH** · 03-11-2015, 06:50 PM

I wouldn't say "Puncture" the bubbles, but rather tear them away with your fingers, use a good roof cleaner and a stiff bristle nylon brush, clean the area really well after all the loose (non adherent) coating is removed and then reapply a fresh coat of new coating that is compatible with both the EPDM and whatever coating brand the original owner applied. If he just went to Lowe's or HD and bought some "roof coating" it may not be approved for your EPDM roof membrane and you could be "in for problems" but, if he bought the correct coating material, just peel off the blisters, clean up the roof and do a good thorough reapplication.

The thing (I think) to remember is that there may have been one or two "damaged areas" on the original roof. If that was the reason for recoating the RV, then chances of those "blisters" being directly over the damaged EPDM are probably slim. So that would mean that the "issues you see with blistering" aren't even close to the actual damaged EPDM and will never cause a leak, rather they just "look bad".....

Once you know exactly what the original owner tried to repair and where those problems were located, then you'll know if you even need to be concerned.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it at this time, but just keep it in mind and if you learn that there's an issue, deal with it. If he tells you that there were no leaks, but the roof was stained and "ugly", then you'll rest better, I'm sure....

Be sure to find out the brand name of the coating he used so you can verify that it is compatible with EPDM roofing membrane. The wrong coating material can cause damage that you can't fix.

NOTE: The words "puncture" and "cut" scare me when discussing the roof membrane. I much prefer "pull" and "tear away loose" to those.... LOL

Good Luck

[TASF]Overkill · 05-14-2015, 03:40 AM

This is a "work in progress", but from last call to the RV place that apparently did this, the guy I spoke with said they use Blackjack roof coatings for all their recoating jobs. I can't find anything that says Blackjack is compatible with EPDM roofs. So now I'm bordering on furious and wondering what my options are for recourse. Probably nothing other than having an angry message about them on the back of my trailer. Waiting to be able to get in touch with the guy in the shop who actually did the work. Parts of it started actually peeling up yesterday. Dang it all.

{tpc} · 05-14-2015, 08:14 AM

Hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction. I looked it up on the internet, and it seems this roof coating is used on actual stick and bricks roofs? Why in the world would a RV place use it?

The only thing I can think of is that they have probably used EternaBond stuff of roofs before, and this product seems to have a similar name in Eterna-Kote?

Now if parts are peeling up that easily, maybe thats actually a good thing. If you can get it all off easily, you can probably get it fixed correctly and much better. It is supposed to be 100% silicone, and I'm not sure how well you could get that to stick to epdm..I'm not sure if there is a way to prep edpm for the adhesion.

I guess when you read the website and tech specs for the stuff it all sounds good. UV protection, bright white to help roof stay cool, etc. But I don't think it was ever intended for mobile roofs or to adhere to epdm or tpo.

[TASF]Overkill · 05-14-2015, 10:23 AM

Yeah, they said "this is what they use" and I could go buy it at Lowes. I hope they thought I was calling about an aluminum-roofed camper or something... Hoping to catch the guy who actually did the work today. I wonder how many other campers they've coated this way.

{tpc} · 05-14-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [TASF]Overkill

Yeah, they said "this is what they use" and I could go buy it at Lowes. I hope they thought I was calling about an aluminum-roofed camper or something... Hoping to catch the guy who actually did the work today. I wonder how many other campers they've coated this way.

Just to clarify, I am no expert. It may be perfectly acceptable to use, just the first time I have heard of it. From your description of whats going on, it doesn't sound right to me. It also sounds like a bigger RV dealer and less of a "mom and pop" type place, which even makes it that much more odd, to me anyways.

[TASF]Overkill · 05-15-2015, 04:39 PM

Seems we may have a leak. The spot inside that was previously just minorly tiny stained (allegedly what got the previous owners' attention), maybe it's my imagination, but I don't remember it being soft too. Cue Jack's despair.

At this point, we're hoping it can hold together until June... we'll hopefully have a spot to park it out at our land and a tall car port to put it underneath... then we'll take our own stab at replacing the roof. Probably. What a sad way to get into RVing.

[TASF]Overkill · 03-30-2016, 07:13 PM

Coating started coming off in sheets about 6 months ago. The leak may have just been the lube hole on the antenna though, don't think we've had more water in. Ceiling is borked though. Not sure what to do about that. Looking forward to rebooting ourselves though. Can run my solar wiring through there then!

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