Truck bucking

[Stacyismetoo]

Hello! I hope that I can get some ideas on what to do. We purchased a Weigh Safe WDH and installed on our toy hauler. Now on this particular trailer there is no way to reduce the tongue weight while unloaded. All the living space is in front of the axels and the garage is behind. Even the water tanks are up front. We took it out for a test drive and it was towing great till about at 50 mph we hit a patch of bad road and the truck bucked up and down like nothing I’ve experienced before.
I know we’re outside the 10-15% tongue weight by about 200-300# but my husband says it’s ok to have more then to have less.
What could be causing the bucking at higher speeds? We tried the same road again at 45 and very little happened. I really don’t want to driving this thing all over at 45mph…lol but we don’t always want to bring our Rhino with us either…
Could the extra tongue weight be the problem??
Anyone have any experience using a Weigh Safe weight distribution hitch?
2003 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton diesel, air bags, upgraded factory tow package 4:10 gear - 2021 Keystone Carbon 36 bumper pull - Weigh Safe WDH 2.5 20,000# 2,000#

[MotoDad293]

air bags on the tow vehicle should help with that.

[Ken / Claudia]

The 2 prior trucks I had, had air bags. When they had too much air the truck rode like I was sitting on a bouncy ball after hitting a road bump. Lowering the PSI ended that. All the extra bounce was in the rear axle. So not sure if what I felt was your idea of bucking. The key was for me it was the rear axle causing it with too much air in the bags.
When I have had front axle bucking, it was due to real high winds hitting head on. Slowing down was the only way that stopped.

[flybouy]

Don't know what your definition of "Bucking" is but with a 18 or 19 year old truck the first thing I would recommend is to get the truck checked out at a good alignment shop that's familiar with deisel pick ups. The "death wobble" (that's where the steering wheel shakes violently after hitting a bump) usually happens at about 45 to 50 MPH. Removing weight from the front axle will accentuate the event.

Also get some real weight reading from a scale so you know what the tongue weight actually is. Without knowing the trailer actual weight and ther tongue weight there's no way to access if the WDH bars are too stiff.

[dutchmensport]

Just by the shear weight of the trailer dangling from the hitch will cause extra weight through the entire tow vehicle. You are adding a lot of weight when towing, making every bump in the road hit harder than when not towing, or if the truck was empty. It's just the way it is.

As you said, when not towing you don't notice it so much, when towing, it's like a bucking horse. I agree. Your tires, suspension, everything is hitting those bumps, and especially expansion joints on bridges a LOT harder when towing than when not towing. That WILL make the trailer buck, and really not much you can do about it, except as you stated .... slow down.

For this very reason we avoid interstates at all cost. US Highways, State Roads, and even back county gravel roads are smoother than most of the interstates in the USA. We have travel with trailer in tow and had shelves actually break off the wall, and cabinets fall. It's just the shear weight hitting every bump in the road that doesn't exist when not towin.

Another problem you may have is if there is "slop" in the receiver hitch. Our last 2 pick-up trucks had receiver hitches that were slightly larger than the actual hitch, thus allowing it to actually wiggle around. That's not so bad on smooth roads, but get on a rugged road, and that hitch will bounce around in that receiver, banging, making noise, and making the truck feel like a bronking horse.

There are devices to firm up the receiver hitch space so the hitch shaft can't move. I never used one. We just learned to drive slower, and avoid interstates.

Now, we have a fifth wheel, and sometimes, the bounce is still pretty hard and the trailer front will lift and slam down on the hitch. Very seldom, but when it does, I am reminded I'm towing a beast behind me!

[{tpc}]

I'll offer that it could be a poor road. There is a part of I-75 here in michigan, going into ohio and coming back from ohio (this is worse actually) where ours will buck like mad unless I run in the far left lane.

There is also a stretch of I-96 headed through lansing that is so bad I won't go that way anymore. Every lane is terrible.

I believe this is caused by the heavy trucks running them and by the road itself heaving at different times of the year. So it could be that. Recently went to tennessee and had no issues other than the i-75 stretch I talked about.

[sourdough]

I'll throw another thing out;

I've never used, seen or heard of anyone using the Weigh Safe hitch. Looking at pictures and videos of it the Weigh Safe looks to me like it would be the worst kind of hitch for your kind of trailer. The ball extends back from the truck an extraordinary distance. That puts the leverage point further back from the truck and would really let a tongue heavy trailer play havoc with a TV looks like.

With a 2003 truck as was mentioned, LOTS of things that need to be checked; front shocks/springs/ball joints, rear shocks/springs etc. If worn any of them can give you a very jouncy ride. Apparently the air bags have not helped with the problem so you're back to vehicle components, hitch choice or ??

I would note that Keystone shows an empty tongue weight of 1710 IIRC for the empty trailer. It is a toy hauler but I'm thinking the very heavy tongue, suspended on an extended shank/ball behind the truck and then any weak suspension components are going to give you the kind of problems you are experiencing.

[{tpc}]

I kinda agree with sourdough on this one. That is a mighty big trailer, and it might be hanging too far back as suggested. Did the dealer set it up for you or did you do it yourself?

I've not seen this kind of hitch at any dealers I have happened into over the years, so it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't know how to set it up properly either when presented with it.

[jasin1]

You guys with more trailer towing experience can answer this….if a person with a heavy trailer encounters bad road and let’s off the gas and brake and coasts …can that cause bucking? Is it better to keep steady acceleration and keep pulling? I wonder if driver error could cause this? Will the trailer start pushing the truck?Just asking

[JGCyber3]

so I have a new carbon 35 which is pretty similar to the carbon 36 weight wise...I have a blue ox sway pro weight dist hitch - only 2 trips so far but took interstate and lots of construction in co right now so interstates not very smooth... while we get some bouncing it's nothing better or worse than previous heavy toy hauler and hitch....eg no funny business occurring....and my dealer gave me the wrong arms for the hitch (1500lb vs. 2k lb)....looking at pics, does appear blue ox is bit shorter / closer to bumper than the pic of the weight safe...so could be something to that. I still have my truck sagging a bit (no airbags), so going to try one more link on the chain to see if it improves...

Motodad - see my sig re ktm's, and I lived in Wildomar from 2000-2006....miss Elsinore being up the street

[sourdough]

That hasn't been my experience. You can have a jolt when either accelerating or decelerating but because you let off the go pedal doesn't cause "bucking". With a TT it has always been due to overloaded truck, poor suspension or setup is incorrect. Except....when I was pulling with a 1/2 ton overloaded with a 10k gvw TT across LA from Shreveport to Jackson MS, now that bucking was SO bad with that combo that I couldn't hit the brakes or hold the gas pedal; I was bouncing in the seat so bad my right foot would hit the gas pedal, lift into the air letting it go then slam right back down on it, quite a "bucking" experience. The solution at that moment? Drive 40-45mph. Ultimate solution? Bigger truck.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by sourdough

That hasn't been my experience. You can have a jolt when either accelerating or decelerating but because you let off the go pedal doesn't cause "bucking". With a TT it has always been due to overloaded truck, poor suspension or setup is incorrect. Except....when I was pulling with a 1/2 ton overloaded with a 10k gvw TT across LA from Shreveport to Jackson MS, now that bucking was SO bad with that combo that I couldn't hit the brakes or hold the gas pedal; I was bouncing in the seat so bad my right foot would hit the gas pedal, lift into the air letting it go then slam right back down on it, quite a "bucking" experience. The solution at that moment? Drive 40-45mph. Ultimate solution? Bigger truck.

Ok thanks…just wondered about that

[JRTJH]

Ok, nobody has yet discussed the "elephant in the room"...

A 2003 Dodge 2500 diesel. If I remember correctly, the GVWR is around 8500-8800 pounds. With the diesel, and "typical owner added accessories installed through the years, the curb weight is pushing 6000, add the hitch, passengers and the payload is going to be down around 2000 or under.

Could it be that the Carbon 36 is simply too much trailer for that truck??? Given the long shank length of the WD hitch, the payload and the extremely high hitch weight, the tow vehicle may simply be "overwhelmed" in less than "perfect towing conditions".....

I'd start with spending $16 at the nearest CAT scale and see how the rig weights look and then go from there.....

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Ok, nobody has yet discussed the "elephant in the room"...

A 2003 Dodge 2500 diesel. If I remember correctly, the GVWR is around 8500-8800 pounds. With the diesel, and "typical owner added accessories installed through the years, the curb weight is pushing 6000, add the hitch, passengers and the payload is going to be down around 2000 or under.

Could it be that the Carbon 36 is simply too much trailer for that truck??? Given the long shank length of the WD hitch, the payload and the extremely high hitch weight, the tow vehicle may simply be "overwhelmed" in less than "perfect towing conditions".....

I'd start with spending $16 at the nearest CAT scale and see how the rig weights look and then go from there.....

John, well 13,000# GVWR, 38’ length and 1,720# dry hitch, that is a lot of Trailer for a Ram 2500 with a I believe is a 9,200# GVWR.
Air bags and new Bilstein shoos might help, but I believe the OP might be suprised at the results of a scale visit.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

John, well 13,000# GVWR, 38’ length and 1,720# dry hitch, that is a lot of Trailer for a Ram 2500 with a I believe is a 9,200# GVWR.
Air bags and new Bilstein shoos might help, but I believe the OP might be suprised at the results of a scale visit.

Might well be a 9200 pound GVWR. I simply don't know but can assure it's not the 10K of "today's trucks"... So, rather than "chase possibilities without knowing the real weights we're dealing with", a trip to a certified scale to get the "real world weights" and then we can start ruling out possibilities....

I wouldn't suggest air bags or new shocks until knowing that the truck isn't being "overwhelmed by the trailer's tongue weight"....

Before spending money on parts, a trip to the scale would provide some "extremely valuable information"....

[rhagfo]

i

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Might well be a 9200 pound GVWR. I simply don't know but can assure it's not the 10K of "today's trucks"... So, rather than "chase possibilities without knowing the real weights we're dealing with", a trip to a certified scale to get the "real world weights" and then we can start ruling out possibilities....

I wouldn't suggest air bags or new shocks until knowing that the truck isn't being "overwhelmed by the trailer's tongue weight"....

Before spending money on parts, a trip to the scale would provide some "extremely valuable information"....

Yea, I mentioned the shocks, but I think the OP will find that he is a bit overweight, and as someone mentioned before the Weigh Safe does extend the bal back about another foot.

[JGCyber3]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

John, well 13,000# GVWR, 38’ length and 1,720# dry hitch, that is a lot of Trailer for a Ram 2500 with a I believe is a 9,200# GVWR.
Air bags and new Bilstein shoos might help, but I believe the OP might be suprised at the results of a scale visit.

I need to do a scale visit...my truck gvwr is 10k and max trailer is 13k - my trailer 200lbs lighter on Tonge so I appear to be within margins at full load, but not a lot of buffer.....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Ok, nobody has yet discussed the "elephant in the room"...

A 2003 Dodge 2500 diesel. If I remember correctly, the GVWR is around 8500-8800 pounds. With the diesel, and "typical owner added accessories installed through the years, the curb weight is pushing 6000, add the hitch, passengers and the payload is going to be down around 2000 or under.

Could it be that the Carbon 36 is simply too much trailer for that truck??? Given the long shank length of the WD hitch, the payload and the extremely high hitch weight, the tow vehicle may simply be "overwhelmed" in less than "perfect towing conditions".....

I'd start with spending $16 at the nearest CAT scale and see how the rig weights look and then go from there.....

I tried to touch on this indirectly in one of my previous posts. Empty tongue weight is 1710. OP is traveling ready to camp, with everything located in front of the axles and nothing in the back; tongue is probably north of 2k, on a ball, 2' behind the bumper due to hitch choice. Result? Truck is going to bounce nicely. This would be partly, IMO, due to the type of hitch and location of the attachment point combined with the facts that the truck is 18 years old with worn components AND it never had that much payload in the first place. Remember, we are only talking about the tongue weight of the trailer. "Maybe" putting a thousand pounds of "ballast" in the cab might help but in the end I suspect the truck is overloaded and due to age not able to handle the type of situation thrown at/on it.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JGCyber3

I need to do a scale visit...my truck gvwr is 10k and max trailer is 13k - my trailer 200lbs lighter on Tonge so I appear to be within margins at full load, but not a lot of buffer.....

Max trailer ratings for trucks is worthless and meaningless. Scales are the ticket. Truck gvw of 10k is a plus but that was new; 18 years later, if not pristine and new throughout, that could be 7500.

[JGCyber3]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Max trailer ratings for trucks is worthless and meaningless. Scales are the ticket. Truck gvw of 10k is a plus but that was new; 18 years later, if not pristine and new throughout, that could be 7500.

Dont disagree but my truck is a 16 with 40k miles....im not the op, just have very similar trailer and newer truck!