Tundra as a Tow Vehicle for 24' Bunkhouse

flyfishMT · 03-10-2020, 04:42 PM

Hi all, New member here. I asked this question on the Jayco forums a while back; I'm shopping a Jayco 242BHS, a Keystone Springdale 240BHS, and a Keystone Hideout 24BHSWE.

I have a 1/2 ton 2016 Toyota Tundra, 5.7L engine, 4.30 gearing.

The payload on my door jamb says 1300 pounds.

Looks like the hitch weight of the Springdale is 690 pounds, and the hideout 720 pounds. (The jayco was 685).

I have E-Rated 10 ply tires.

Do I have enough truck to safely carry my family and our in gear while towing these trailers? I am not worried about the power, more the payload, axle rating, and mostly the handling. I plan to get a good weight distribution hitch - was planning on a blue ox sway pro, and am not opposed to Timbrens or airbags.

I wouldn't have thought too much about this but I had a Hideout I was going to buy and the owner said I needed a 3/4 ton.

Anyways, I appreciate any advice. I just don't want to get into something I am not safe or comfortable driving.

Thanks!

SummitPond · 03-10-2020, 05:03 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Please take a photo of the white and yellow stickers that are posted on the driver's door or door jamb. This has more information regarding axle ratings, GVWR, etc that is needed. Also you might look at your owner's manual or a tow guide to see what the GCWR and tow limit are for your TV. Those pieces of information would be helpful, too. Payload isn't the only number to consider.

Ken / Claudia · 03-10-2020, 05:08 PM

Welcome to the forum, but your doing what most new RVes do. Using the shipped/empty tongue wt. of a RV. Do not do that, it will get you into trouble esp. with a 1/2 ton tow vehicle.
Use at least for a close figure the GVWR of the trailer, say 10,000. Than use 12 to 15 percent of that number to get real tongue wt.
What ever RV you buy you should drive over a scale and get your loaded wt.s.
As an example, see my listed vehicles. The tongue that was in the booklet said 560 lbs. I had it loaded for 2 on a 3 day trip with full fresh water and of course 2 full propane tanks and 2 batteries on the tongue. The real tongue wt. was 920 lbs.
Check to see if your payload considers full fuel tank.

NH_Bulldog · 03-10-2020, 05:12 PM

Short answer is no. From that 1,300 lb payload capacity you need to deduct 800 lbs for tongue weight (don’t believe published tongue weights as they don’t typically include battery and filled weights of propane tanks), then deduct hitch weight of around 100 lbs, then deduct weight of a full tank of gas, the weight of all passengers and equipment (basically deduct the weight of anything that didn’t come installed from the factory). My guess is you are well into negative territory by this point and that also means no safety margin. The Tundra is certainly a capable truck, just not for this situation. If a different truck isn’t in the budget, you may want to consider a hybrid trailer that will give you the room for everyone but at a much lower weight. Good luck and please consider your precious cargo before you decide to buy a trailer that you cannot safely tow.

We have a Passport 240Bh and my loaded weights (scales), gives me a few hundred lbs leeway, but I have a Max Tow package with a cargo capacity over 2,000 lbs. it works and we are safe, but next truck will be a 3/4 ton

**flybouy** · 03-10-2020, 05:17 PM

The simple answer is no. Any camper with a 700 lb empty tongue weight will be near a 1,000 lbs. loaded. Add another good 150 lbs for a wd hitch and you're 1,300 lb payload will be exceeded as soon as you set behind the steering wheel. If you are looking at those type trailers you need more truck.

Gegrad · 03-10-2020, 05:58 PM

Yeah, your Tundra probably isn't going to be adequate for those units. Tundras have lots of strengths, but towing trailers isn't one of them. If you like that length and cannot upgrade trucks you have 2 options: 1) you could consider an ultralight version of those rigs, like a Passport or a Bullet. The Hideout and Springdale are both wood framed and will thus weigh several hundred pounds more than the Bullet/Passport. 2) As others have suggested, you could look at a hybrid model, which weigh a lot less than your selected models.

Logan X · 03-10-2020, 07:17 PM

I have a Hideout 24BHSWE and the actual loaded tongue weight is closer to 1000 pounds...so no, the Tundra won’t work. (You will exceed the payload capacity of your truck and probably the gross combined weight rating)

I tow with a 3/4 ton Diesel and I would not tow a trailer my size with anything less than a 3/4 ton.

travelin texans · 03-10-2020, 07:57 PM

Also that 240 - 242 model number in most cases is not the actual RV length, that model is more likely nearer 26 to 28' in length.

**sourdough** · 03-11-2020, 10:15 AM

Springdale 240BH

Length - 28' 11"
GVW - 7690
Tongue weight at 13% of gvw = 999.70 lbs.

Hideout 24BHS

Length - 28.42"
GVW - 7720
Tongue weight @ 13% gvw = 1003.6 lbs.

First, good on that owner that was watching out for you!

The weights above indicate you will probably run around 1000lbs. on tongue weight. With a 1300 pound payload capacity it tells you a couple of things; 1) the truck wasn't designed to be towing a trailer of any size and 2) with a trailer the size of either of the above you will be over payload and probably gawr along with gvw. Those things tell you it won't be very safe for the family - especially when you mention "gear". I doubt you have enough capacity for the family much less any gear for fun - btdt and it ain't fun.

Also remember that suspension aids; Timbrens, air bags, SumSprings etc. don't help your payload/gvw at all. In fact, the deduct from it because they are added weight.

I commend you asking beforehand and keeping the safety of your family front and center - some don't. Maybe you could look into a smaller or lighter trailer. Of course a larger truck would open up your choices for a trailer, plus a Toyota retains its value very, very well sot that might be an option.

flyfishMT · 03-11-2020, 11:23 AM

All, thanks for all the great info. To answer SummitPond - from my pillar sticker, my GVWR is 7100lb, GAWR FRT: 4000lb, RR: 4150lb. How do these numbers fit into the equation with payload of what I can tow?

Also, for what it's worth, I have read Tundra uses a more stringent SAE standard for payload testing. I will say I currently tow a single axle camper with UVW 2893 always with 36 gallons water (and typically a bed loaded with gear!) from the house and can't hardly tell it's back there. The manufacturer claims 295lb hitch weight but I think you're saying this is actually 376lbs.

Not trying to disagree with anything said here! - just more info from my research and experience.

EDIT - I have read the payload number includes a tank of gas and 2 150lb passengers as well. A tank of gas is substantial - I have a 38 gallon tank.

**flybouy** · 03-11-2020, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

All, thanks for all the great info. To answer SummitPond - from my pillar sticker, my GVWR is 7100lb, GAWR FRT: 4000lb, RR: 4150lb. How do these numbers fit into the equation with payload of what I can tow?

Also, for what it's worth, I have read Tundra uses a more stringent SAE standard for payload testing. I will say I currently tow a single axle camper with UVW 2893 always with 36 gallons water (and typically a bed loaded with gear!) from the house and can't hardly tell it's back there. The manufacturer claims 295lb hitch weight but I think you're saying this is actually 376lbs.

Not trying to disagree with anything said here! - just more info from my research and experience.

EDIT - I have read the payload number includes a tank of gas and 2 150lb passengers as well. A tank of gas is substantial - I have a 38 gallon tank.

Payload is the gross vehicle weight rating, you say that's 7,100 lb. - the actual weight of the truck. The door pillar sticker with the tire info will typically have that capacity on it. Now, that sticker is when the truck rolled out of the factory. Deduct anything that you put in the truck i.e. tools, maps, floor mats, gear that put in the bed, etc. Add about 150 lbs. for a weight distributing hitch.

Now, look at the tongue weight of the camper. The published number is when the camper rolled out of the factory so it DOES NOT include the weight of the battery, propane tanks, water, gray or black tank contents, or anything else that you put in the camper i.e. cooking pots/pans, plates/silverware, clothing, linens for the beds, food, beverages, toys, etc. The common number to use for the loaded tongue weight is take the max trailer weight and multiply by .13 or .15. It will depend on how it's loaded (more weight forward of axles will add more tongue weight,

This is a harsh reality that a lot of 1/2 ton truck owners go thru when they realize they just cannot safely tow a larger trailer. No here is trying to "rain on you're parade" Most of us have been there done that and are just trying to prevent others from making the same mistakes we made.

**sourdough** · 03-11-2020, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

All, thanks for all the great info. To answer SummitPond - from my pillar sticker, my GVWR is 7100lb, GAWR FRT: 4000lb, RR: 4150lb. How do these numbers fit into the equation with payload of what I can tow?

Also, for what it's worth, I have read Tundra uses a more stringent SAE standard for payload testing. I will say I currently tow a single axle camper with UVW 2893 always with 36 gallons water (and typically a bed loaded with gear!) from the house and can't hardly tell it's back there. The manufacturer claims 295lb hitch weight but I think you're saying this is actually 376lbs.

Not trying to disagree with anything said here! - just more info from my research and experience.

EDIT - I have read the payload number includes a tank of gas and 2 150lb passengers as well. A tank of gas is substantial - I have a 38 gallon tank.

As Marshall pointed out, there really isn't any "testing" that makes Toyota's numbers better than the big 3. GVW - Actual truck weight = payload.

flyfishMT · 03-11-2020, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

As Marshall pointed out, there really isn't any "testing" that makes Toyota's numbers better than the big 3. GVW - Actual truck weight = payload.

Yes sorry I misspoke there. You all have me dreaming about an HD truck now (or picturing camping in our cramped little trailer for the unforeseeable future)

**sourdough** · 03-11-2020, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

Yes sorry I misspoke there. You all have me dreaming about an HD truck now (or picturing camping in our cramped little trailer for the unforeseeable future)

Dreaming about the HD....and you live in the PERFECT HD territory! Good luck on getting there. FYI, I've pulled that trigger many times and have never been sorry....yet.

flyfishMT · 03-12-2020, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

Dreaming about the HD....and you live in the PERFECT HD territory! Good luck on getting there. FYI, I've pulled that trigger many times and have never been sorry....yet.

I LOVE my Tundra though, it would be tough to get rid of.

SummitPond · 03-12-2020, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

All, thanks for all the great info. To answer SummitPond - from my pillar sticker, my GVWR is 7100lb, GAWR FRT: 4000lb, RR: 4150lb. How do these numbers fit into the equation with payload of what I can tow? <clip>

As identified above, your payload capability is the GVWR less the curb weight of the TV, and this is typically limiting on this category of truck. Thus your curb weight is 7,100# - 1,300# = 5,800#.

The GCWR (combined TV and TT) number is typically in the owner manual or in the manufacturer tow guide (found online), so in this case 7,100# plus whatever the TT weighs (use GVWR for both units to be conservative).

It looks as if your towing capacity is only 6,800#; I didn't look up your various models, but no matter what TV you use - this is also an important number to watch.

The axle numbers can only be truly verified by weighing your rig on a CAT scale or similar. Again, you don't want to be overloaded on this number either.

As an example, here are my numbers when we packed for a month-long trip followed by an extended (multi-month) stay at the terminus of our trip:

TV GVWR/GVW: 10,000#/7,900# (21% margin)
TV Steer axle rating/actual: 4,550#/4,100# (9.8% margin)
TV Drive axle rating/actual: 6,100#/4,580# (24.9% margin)
TV GCWR/GCW: 19,000#/14,540# (23.4% margin)
TV tow capacity/actual: 12,400#/6,620# (54.4%)

TT GVWR/GVW: 7,000#/6,620# (5.4% margin)

As you can see, the TV has 10% or more margin on all limits. I have tandem 3,500# axles on the TT, but the CAT scale doesn't provide individual values for each axle on the TT, only the TV.

flyfishMT · 03-14-2020, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SummitPond

As identified above, your payload capability is the GVWR less the curb weight of the TV, and this is typically limiting on this category of truck. Thus your curb weight is 7,100# - 1,300# = 5,800#.

The GCWR (combined TV and TT) number is typically in the owner manual or in the manufacturer tow guide (found online), so in this case 7,100# plus whatever the TT weighs (use GVWR for both units to be conservative).

It looks as if your towing capacity is only 6,800#; I didn't look up your various models, but no matter what TV you use - this is also an important number to watch.

The axle numbers can only be truly verified by weighing your rig on a CAT scale or similar. Again, you don't want to be overloaded on this number either.

As an example, here are my numbers when we packed for a month-long trip followed by an extended (multi-month) stay at the terminus of our trip:

TV GVWR/GVW: 10,000#/7,900# (21% margin)
TV Steer axle rating/actual: 4,550#/4,100# (9.8% margin)
TV Drive axle rating/actual: 6,100#/4,580# (24.9% margin)
TV GCWR/GCW: 19,000#/14,540# (23.4% margin)
TV tow capacity/actual: 12,400#/6,620# (54.4%)

TT GVWR/GVW: 7,000#/6,620# (5.4% margin)

As you can see, the TV has 10% or more margin on all limits. I have tandem 3,500# axles on the TT, but the CAT scale doesn't provide individual values for each axle on the TT, only the TV.

Ok, I have looked these numbers up in my owner's manual for my model number. I have a Doublecab 4WD, tow package, large fuel tank,

GCWR: 16,000lb.
TWR: 9,800lb.

So do I have this right?

16,000 - 7100 = 8900 = max trailer GVWR.

Is TWR towing capacity? So do I take the lesser of these numbers? (And I hear you on a % safety margin).

These numbers are higher than your examples, does this change your opinion?

It seems my limitation is really my payload?

Man this is like math class.

**flybouy** · 03-14-2020, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

Ok, I have looked these numbers up in my owner's manual for my model number. I have a Doublecab 4WD, tow package, large fuel tank,

GCWR: 16,000lb.
TWR: 9,800lb.

So do I have this right?

16,000 - 7100 = 8900 = max trailer GVWR.

Is TWR towing capacity? So do I take the lesser of these numbers? (And I hear you on a % safety margin).

These numbers are higher than your examples, does this change your opinion?

It seems my limitation is really my payload?

Man this is like math class.

The only numbers that are applicable are the numbers on the door jamb of your truck. To simplify the math you don't have enough (any) numbers left over after adding up the loads and subtracting from your max payload. What you do with this information is you're decision but it will not alter the fact that your truck is not capable of safety towing that load.

And we haven't even begun the conversation about the difference of a big, long box with a high center of gravity and wind resistance VS a Similar weight on a low trailer like towing bricks on a flatbed.

flyfishMT · 03-14-2020, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flybouy

The only numbers that are applicable are the numbers on the door jamb of your truck. To simplify the math you don't have enough (any) numbers left over after adding up the loads and subtracting from your max payload. What you do with this information is you're decision but it will not alter the fact that your truck is not capable of safety towing that load.

And we haven't even begun the conversation about the difference of a big, long box with a high center of gravity and wind resistance VS a Similar weight on a low trailer like towing bricks on a flatbed.

Got to admit you guys are confusing me. I've been told to check the numbers in my manual, and door jamb, and now to ignore the manual numbers. And if I don't have any numbers left - I need to understand how that pencils out with my numbers so I can fully understand. I assume you must mean with the trailers in my original question but at this point I am trying to research what trailer will work for me - other than those.

I think I've presented all numbers I have so I think I need to do some research to understand this a little better so I'm not asking silly questions - the confusion is definitely on my end! I admit I haven't tried very hard myself was just looking for an easy answer! Thanks

Logan X · 03-14-2020, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

Ok, I have looked these numbers up in my owner's manual for my model number. I have a Doublecab 4WD, tow package, large fuel tank,

GCWR: 16,000lb.
TWR: 9,800lb.

So do I have this right?

16,000 - 7100 = 8900 = max trailer GVWR.

Is TWR towing capacity? So do I take the lesser of these numbers? (And I hear you on a % safety margin).

These numbers are higher than your examples, does this change your opinion?

It seems my limitation is really my payload?

Man this is like math class.

You are on the right track here. 16000 pound GCWR minus the fully loaded truck is the max you can tow-8900 pounds.

However, you also can’t exceed any other limits, like your payload capacity. You are correct when you say payload is your limiting factor with a travel trailer loaded for camping. If you were towing a short flatbed trailer with a pallet of bricks and you were the only occupant it the truck, you could probably tow “the max tow number” of 8900 pounds or at least get closer to it.

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