Researching before buying

Ghornet54 · 09-20-2021, 06:00 PM

Hello everyone, My wife and I are researching upgrading to a 5th wheel. We have a 2018 Ram 2500 Diesel and currently tow a 2019 Keystone Passport Ultra Lite. It is usually just my wife and I camping 450lbs total. We don't carry anything extra in the truck, no bikes, no coolers, no toolbox. We like to stop every 2 hours and use the restroom in the camper and get something to drink and relax a little before leaving.

We like to camp at Gulf Shores Campground every year which is about a 9hr drive for us.

We're wondering what size 5th wheel we can buy that is around 32ft. Attached is my label from the inside of my truck. I know this is very subjective and would like to have any and all comments. I don't (won't) buy another truck don't really care for a 350.

**sourdough** · 09-20-2021, 06:17 PM

Just a shot across the bow; that truck won't carry much of a 5th wheel. The sticker is blurry but best I can tell the payload is maybe 2149? Won't get you into any kind of 5th wheel of any size. A gvw of 10-10.5k = 2205lbs. (10.5k gvw x .21 = 2205). More than the payload of the truck. The achilles heel of a 3/4 ton diesel.

Ghornet54 · 09-20-2021, 06:39 PM

Thank you! It's actually 2168lbs, but not much difference! We only want one around 30-32ft. Don't want to go over that size. I really don't want to upgrade the truck for a 3500 because I like the ride and drive of my 2500.

**chuckster57** · 09-20-2021, 06:48 PM

My fiver in sig is 30’ 11” long. GVWR is 10240 with advertised pin of 1410 pounds. I haven’t weighed the pin, but with 2 batteries, 2 7 gal propane tanks and the “have to have” stuff in the basement, I’m betting I’m close to 2000 pounds. Put this on your truck and that only leaves about 200 pounds. Hitch is about 1/2 of that, so how much is left for people and stuff.

When I was thinking about upgrading in 2016, I looked at the Grand Designs “1/2 ton” series. Even they weighed almost as much as the one I have and they were smaller. Hate to say but your either going to have to get a real small fiver or get a bigger truck.

**flybouy** · 09-20-2021, 06:54 PM

It's less about length than it is weight. 2165 -450 = 1,718 lbs of available payload. Take another 150 lbs off for the hitch and you have 1,568 lbs of payload remaining. A 7,500 GVW trailer would have about 1,600 lbs. Pin weight. So for a safety margin don’t go over a 7,000 GVW trailer. That would bejust purely a guess maybe 5,500 lbs empty? Don’t think you'll find a 30+ fiver that light.

**sourdough** · 09-20-2021, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghornet54

Thank you! It's actually 2168lbs, but not much difference! We only want one around 30-32ft. Don't want to go over that size. I really don't want to upgrade the truck for a 3500 because I like the ride and drive of my 2500.

Just want to comment on the highlighted above;

The old axe of that 1 ton is going to ride so much harsher than a 3/4 ton is gone in the wind....garbage. I was the poster guy of having a "nice, softer ride" due to damaged back issues and resisted any upgrade from a 1/2 ton...then I did. Went to 3/4 and wasn't so bad...if I aired down from 80psi if not towing. The bugaboo was a 1 ton truck...didn't want to do it. I had to for the trailer my DW selected. The reality? A 1 ton doesn't ride any worse than a 3/4 ton (that you can notice) but gives you SO much more latitude. Air down those tires and they both ride the same....but the 1 ton can carry so much more. If you have the means/desire to upgrade to accommodate a different trailer etc. never even think about the ride difference....btdt.

rhagfo · 09-20-2021, 07:34 PM

Good luck on getting a 32’ 5er that will fit your payload! We have a 32’ 5er with a GVWR of GVWR and about a 2,500# pin.
Sorry, but if you want a 32’ 5er with decent construction you really need a 350/3500 SRW to have enough payload.

**JRTJH** · 09-20-2021, 07:54 PM

I have a 2014 Cougar XLite 27RKS. It's advertised dry weight is 7045 with a payload of 2955 and an advertised pin weight of 1230. It's 30' 5" long.

In reality it's a 10K GVWR trailer that when loaded for a trip weighs in about 9500-9800 pounds with a pin weight between 1800 and 2000 pounds.

I don't think you'll find many fifth wheels that are 2' longer than mine and weigh enough less to keep you under your payload.

rhagfo · 09-20-2021, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essvar

Unfortunately everyone is correct. I have the same truck and it will not have the payload… the 40,000 miles of 15-20k I have towed says so

the weak point of your truck is the coil overs. That’s where the “payload” difference is in the dodge 2500vs3500.

By the stickers… you can tow an RPOD and be safe

(I do not support or condone unsafe behavior)

Yet you tow a 17,000# GVWR 5er with a Ram 2500! That and the 5er you are towing at 39’ 6” only has a payload of 2,424#! Our 32’ 5er has a 2,100# payload with a full fresh water tank and full propane.
You look to be between 1,500# to as much as 1,700# over GVWR and pushing the rear axle rating. You are a rolling lawsuit waiting for accident.
You are truly in DRW territory with that 5er.

wiredgeorge · 09-21-2021, 05:35 AM

Sir, You own a bumper pull capable 3/4 ton. Buy a bumper pull that is the length you desire as your truck isn't up to 5th wheel hauling safely.

jxnbbl · 09-21-2021, 06:35 AM

I did this research for a Ram 2500 earlier this year (although my payload was a bit more). It came down to a couple of Grand Design 5th weeks 27-28 nominal length and 31-32 actual that would work...but they didn't have key attributes (available on larger 5th wheels) we desired so bought another trailer. Maybe the future will be a 3500 but fine with our new purchase.

Laredo Tugger · 09-21-2021, 06:53 AM

Post #9 ?????

Ghornet54,
Your post title say's it all, and my compliments for exploring your options before purchase. So many come to this forum after purchase and can not understand why responses to their trailer choice are met with, well, lets call it "correctional dialogue". Myself included, I was sure (based on RV salesman's blessing) that I had the right truck (F250 gasser) in front of my fifth wheel upon purchase. But I soon discovered (see above consultation) that I was way over payload. I made the adjustment to a 3500 Diesel SRW and couldn't be happier. My FW has a total weight of 13K and I have never been that heavy on the scales. You may want to check out the floor plan of my model. For the two of us, the king size bed and half bath added make for a very comfortable "couples trailer" that is not to heavy to pull.
Good luck,
RMc

Ghornet54 · 09-22-2021, 05:00 AM

Thanks everyone, You're just confirming everything! I guess we will have to upgrade to a better bumper pull for now! I was looking for a camper with a larger master bedroom. I really like the 5th wheels that had the bed sideways and slid out.

Ghornet54 · 09-22-2021, 05:11 AM

Thanks everyone for the replies! It was really what I thought it would be, but didn't want to believe it! We will really be looking for another bumper pull with the options we want. Just really wanted a larger bedroom with the bed sideways and slide out. We will just be checking bumper pulls with our "must haves" and "like to haves"!

**JRTJH** · 09-22-2021, 05:39 AM

Charles,

There are a lot of brands (Keystone and others) that have floorplans very much like the typical fifth wheel bedroom layout. Some of them even have washer/dryer space in the front closet.

They don't have the "extended basement storage" under that front bedroom, but the "interior space" is very much the same, except for the steps up to the "second level".

Here's a couple of examples to get you started on your search:

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/30RKD
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/32RLI
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/a...oorplans/377RL
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/o...oorplans/328RL
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/o...oorplans/332ML
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/o...oorplans/330RL
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/o...oorplans/341RD

dutchmensport · 09-22-2021, 06:05 AM

I vote for the Outback. We had a 2013 298RE Outback and it was a great camper. It was 35 feet long, a bit longer than what you want and it was a couple's trailer only. But Outback get's my vote.

**sourdough** · 09-22-2021, 08:56 AM

Charles a few things as you research for that new bumper pull;

Like you we want an RV with the bed in a slide. That generally provides the wardrobe across the front (a must have for us). In the slide they have started to provide the option of a king bed. King beds are nice, sound good and we have them in every house we own BUT an RV is a different space. If you think you want one be sure to go inside one and work around that bed as if changing sheets etc. Most cut the space down so small around the bed that those chores are difficult. Ours came with one and we cut it down to a res queen for just that reason.

Lengths on 5ths and bumper pulls; overall length of the two types of trailers vs their model numbers is a bit different. A bumper pull model number, for example 319rls as I had, gives you the length of the box (approx. 31' 9"). The overall length of the trailer that we had to pull was closer to 37' because that number includes the length from the end of the box to the ball AND if you have a spare on the back, to whatever location that is at the end of that.
On a 5th wheel the model number, for example 331rls as I have, is again the box BUT the oal which is longer then includes living space (front living compartment). The pin barely extends in front of that.

My point is that depending on what you were considering was in that 32' it could take a longer bumper pull to get as much living space as what you would get in the 5th so keep that in mind. It also means you will be towing a longer box behind you since at the very least you will gain the portion that extends into the bed on a 5th wheel.

All that said the difference between a 5th pin weight (20-25%gvw) and tongue weight on a bumper pull (10-15% gvw) is very significant when you have a payload in your range. You have plenty of truck/engine to "pull", you just have limitations on how much you can "carry".

There are LOTS of nice bumper pulls out there that will fit the bill for you. We loved our last one. We also didn't worry about length because where we wanted to go 37' would fit. Be sure to get 2 ACs on a larger trailer. Have fun hunting, and yes, you are making the right decision vs the 5th - kudos.

Ghornet54 · 09-22-2021, 11:07 AM

Thanks! Two of the MUST haves are a larger bathroom and the sideways bed, queen size! We will researching all our want haves soon. I'm retiring tomorrow so will have plenty of time to look.

**JRTJH** · 09-22-2021, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghornet54

Thanks! Two of the MUST haves are a larger bathroom and the sideways bed, queen size! We will researching all our want haves soon. I'm retiring tomorrow so will have plenty of time to look.

OH NO YOU WON'T !!!!!

Every person I've ever known that has retired will tell you that they are busier now than when they were working.... Most will also tell you that they have no idea how they ever found time to devote 40 hours a week to something like a work schedule.....

Welcome to retirement. Things get busier and busier the deeper into this phase of your life goes on !!!!!

wiredgeorge · 09-22-2021, 01:22 PM

Charles, Well, since you seem to have the travel bug... one thing I would like to point out is that you or your missus will enjoy sleeping in and the other will enjoy a cup of coffee early in the morning. If you get a trailer without a bedroom door, one of you will either be awakened or learn to lie in bed till the other gets up for that coffee and early morning quiet time. Get a unit with a door that closes. I had a Sunnybrook bumper pull and it only had a curtain between cabin and bed and that bit of advice I gave sticks in my head from that experience. My missus believes that camping involves sleeping in and I enjoy the early cup of coffee. A camper with no separate bedroom makes this a difficult situation.

Another consideration is the toilet. In our current old Cougar, we had a Thetford Aqua Magic. It was shaped like a pail and low making sitting on it for a boy (me) awkward at best and to top that off, to flush you had a little arm up by the lid on the back/right that had to be pulled as you gazed down into your handiwork. If you have a situation where you want a talled or elongated toilet, measure from the back of the toilet installed and check clearance. MANY folks can not install the Dometic tall 320 all porcelain I have now installed. It makes a difference.

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