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Old 10-25-2021, 01:23 PM   #61
travelin texans
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBorn View Post
You have all said math doesn't lie. This post started out with me asking for real world pre 2016 Passport 199ML UVW and TW weights with standard options (no battery, 2 Empty Propane Tanks and a manual Jack) as it was delivered.

You all said use 13% for tongue weight if the real numbers are not available.

Maximum Tacoma Payload 1000 lbs

Passport 199ML Factory Reported UVW 3571 lb.

Passport 199ML Factory Reported TW 335 lbs

Weighed Truck Payload Available with Canopy 530 lbs

Truck Payload Available without Canopy 700 lbs (guessing canopy is 170 lbs)

I have a total of 802 lbs of cargo, as I weighed and spread sheeted each and every piece. Lets say "I have everything including the kitchen sink" I have stuff I have never taken out of the trailer since owning it.


3571 + 802 = 4373 lbs (less battery and Propane Liquid)

4373 x 13% = 569 lb Estimated Tongue Weight (Factory TW 335 lbs) Leaves 234 lb for battery and propane liquid.

3571 + 802 + 569 = 4942 (Trailer GVW of 5200 lbs)

1000 - 530 - 569 = -99 lbs Over Payload Limit


Same Math 10% TW (Toyota Manual says 9% - 10%)

3571 + 802 = 4373 lbs (less battery and Propane Liquid)

4373 x 10% = 437 lb Estimated Tongue Weight (Factory 335 lbs) Leaves 102 lb for battery and propane liquid.

3571 + 802 + 437 = 4810 (Trailer GVW of 5200 lbs)

1000 - 530 - 437 = 33 lbs Under Payload Limit


Same Math 10% TW remove Canopy

3571 + 802 = 4373 lbs (less battery and Propane Liquid)

4373 x 10% = 437 lb Estimated Tongue Weight (Factory 335 lbs) Leaves 102 lb for battery and propane liquid.

3571 + 802 + 437 = 4810 (Trailer GVW of 5200 lbs)

1000 - 700 - 437 = 137 lbs under Payload Limit

These number does not take into account the transfer of TW from Weighed Rear Axle Weight to Front Axle with the use of Equalizer Bars.

Thanks for all your suggestions;

1) Buy a bigger truck

2) Remove Canopy from Truck

3) Dump the dual 6 volt batteries for a Lithium (-108 lbs)

4) Dump the two 30 lb Propane tanks, stay with the two 20 lb tanks (-32 lbs).

5) No one suggested don't take stuff you have never used.

By the way, NONE of the above suggestions were done with the Dutchman and it put me 10 lbs over payload.


The end result taking in your suggestions @13% TW with Canopy

-99 + 108 + 32 = 41 lbs Under Truck Payload Limit

The end result taking in your suggestions @13% TW without Canopy

-99 + 170 + 108 + 32 = 211 lbs Under Truck Payload Limit


The end result taking in your suggestions @10% TW with Canopy;

33 +108 + 32 = 173 lbs Under Truck Payload Limit

The end result taking in your suggestions @10% TW without Canopy;

33 + 170 +108 + 32 = 343 lbs Under Truck Payload Limit

I will pace an order for a tongue scale as suggested, no guess work.
Just head to your local Cat scales, pay the $10 to weigh your truck loaded ready to camp, with &/or without the canopy, then subtract that number from the GVWR posted on the truck, that number is your actual available payload, no more guessing.
Then for a couple dollars more weigh the truck & your Dutchman with & without the WDH in play. Subtract the 2 GAWR weights for the actual tongue weight, no more guessing.
Maybe by spending that $12 you can finally understand what everyone has been trying to explain in the last 60 posts. I'm fairly certain you'll be surprised at the actual weights.
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Old 10-25-2021, 01:59 PM   #62
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I'm thinking perhaps some folks who ask a question don't want to hear the opinion of folks who are far more experienced so not going over number ad infinitum makes a lot of sense to me. The lengths of some of these tedious posts is torturous. If a family wants to camp, buy a truck capable of pulling any projected camper rather than get a headache trying to make math give your truck more capability than it has.
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Old 10-25-2021, 02:34 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
I'm thinking perhaps some folks who ask a question don't want to hear the opinion of folks who are far more experienced so not going over number ad infinitum makes a lot of sense to me. The lengths of some of these tedious posts is torturous. If a family wants to camp, buy a truck capable of pulling any projected camper rather than get a headache trying to make math give your truck more capability than it has.
I’m thinking that the op zeroed in on the one person who said it will be ok if they rearrange things…don’t understand the motivation behind someone encouraging others to “live on the edge” …if an individual wants to do it then fine but how in the world do you know the driving skill of someone you never met before? Maybe you will be ok in a sketchy situation but someone else may have an accident…and the Tacoma IS a lightweight mid sized truck…the only people in the world who believe otherwise have never owned a actual heavy duty truck.

Some people in the world by the absolute minimal for everything…never understood that philosophy.

There is a saying “get the right tool for the job”
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Old 10-25-2021, 02:40 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by BCBorn View Post
I want to upgrade to a 2014 - 2015 Passport 199ML and trying to determine if the weight specs for my truck will work.
Have you located one for sale?
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Old 10-25-2021, 03:11 PM   #65
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Have you located one for sale?
Nothing in Western Canada or USA at the moment.

It is the lightest/shortest tandum axle trailer with Rear Bath and walk around queen I have found that was build in 2014 - 2016
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Old 10-25-2021, 03:39 PM   #66
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Nothing in Western Canada or USA at the moment.

It is the lightest/shortest tandum axle trailer with Rear Bath and walk around queen I have found that was build in 2014 - 2016

Just for grins let me recap;

We've spent the last 2 days and 65 posts discussing an unknown hypothetical situation involving an RV that does not exist anywhere AND.....IF it did the OP doesn't even know if it will work, or he wants it, unless someone has one just like he wants that can give him their weights......and not a soul knows it!! We just keep bantering irrelevant, impossible, comical situations and propositions that make no sense for no reason. I don't see any point in further discussion.
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Old 10-25-2021, 03:59 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Just for grins let me recap;

We've spent the last 2 days and 65 posts discussing an unknown hypothetical situation involving an RV that does not exist anywhere AND.....IF it did the OP doesn't even know if it will work, or he wants it, unless someone has one just like he wants that can give him their weights......and not a soul knows it!! We just keep bantering irrelevant, impossible, comical situations and propositions that make no sense for no reason. I don't see any point in further discussion.
Most uneducated individuals go out buy a trailer take it home and find out its too heavy (but the dealer told me I can pull 10,000lbs) for their truck and then go out and buy a new truck.

If you look on this site at what many members own, seems if you own anything less than a 2500/3500 you shouldn't own a travel trailer greater than 18 feet.
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Old 10-25-2021, 06:57 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by jasin1 View Post
I’m thinking that the op zeroed in on the one person who said it will be ok if they rearrange things…don’t understand the motivation behind someone encouraging others to “live on the edge” …if an individual wants to do it then fine but how in the world do you know the driving skill of someone you never met before? Maybe you will be ok in a sketchy situation but someone else may have an accident…and the Tacoma IS a lightweight mid sized truck…the only people in the world who believe otherwise have never owned a actual heavy duty truck.

Some people in the world by the absolute minimal for everything…never understood that philosophy.

There is a saying “get the right tool for the job”

I have sat by watching the passive aggressive 8th grade bs stuff long enough. Now you, the royal you, the tow karens, get your well earned dressing. It wont be pleasant.



Lets go to the map, is ANYONE here, at all, trained, certified and or licensed in any way to install, modify, paper, inspect and certify trucks and/or trailers, BESIDES me?



NO. then why are you speaking?



"well I got a big truck and a big trailer and I drive up hills at 80mph therefore I have experience so if you will excuse me I will now go walk around the campground and tell people their truck is too small"



No, you are the next 1/2 mile long wreck with injuries that my brother gets to clean up off the PCH or other officers like him around this country. You dont even know that you dont even know. Its not an indictment per se, there is no requirement for anything. But when I read hundreds of posts in many dozens of threads from people with no subject education, no tools, no practical experience, no certifications, no plaques, no professional licenses, yet telling how wrong other people are whose only mistake was bargaining in good faith. It sorta irks me as it is a giant black crap stain on those of us who actually have taken the time money and commitment to be a part of this industry/endeavour/hobby/whatever.



Funny thing is, there are exactly 4 groups on FB dealing with keystone trailers my wife joined. many of you are members of at least one. Yet you dont pull this crap there. why is that? oh that is right, you have no power over other users there.



That is the crux of the problem and why people are being driven away. I spent a little time reading backwards and found that newcomers ask a towing or tech question, once before the tow karens pounce. they never come back. no one picked up on that? set your goals high I always say.


I have been a member of IVR2 and its sub sites for at least a decade before anyone here and I have *NEVER* seen such behaviour. Is it just the keystone brand that drives this? dunno. dont care. Your treatment of the latest new member was the last straw.



Shoulda trusted my instinct when I saw it the first time, but once again, I bargained in good faith. I will not make the same mistake twice. Im out. It was never actually offered but the candy store is closed.


And for the record, I did not seek the OP out. not everyone is as dumb as you play them to be. people tend to flesh out nonsense on their own. Its true in any endeavour, when someone understands the subject material, its obvious. You should take a long time to adopt a little humility and think on that for a while. you wont. but you should.


ps Jasin? the little green pill is easy to get, might help the obsession.
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Old 10-25-2021, 07:08 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by quaddriver View Post
I have sat by watching the passive aggressive 8th grade bs stuff long enough. Now you, the royal you, the tow karens, get your well earned dressing. It wont be pleasant.



Lets go to the map, is ANYONE here, at all, trained, certified and or licensed in any way to install, modify, paper, inspect and certify trucks and/or trailers, BESIDES me?



NO. then why are you speaking?



"well I got a big truck and a big trailer and I drive up hills at 80mph therefore I have experience so if you will excuse me I will now go walk around the campground and tell people their truck is too small"



No, you are the next 1/2 mile long wreck with injuries that my brother gets to clean up off the PCH or other officers like him around this country. You dont even know that you dont even know. Its not an indictment per se, there is no requirement for anything. But when I read hundreds of posts in many dozens of threads from people with no subject education, no tools, no practical experience, no certifications, no plaques, no professional licenses, yet telling how wrong other people are whose only mistake was bargaining in good faith. It sorta irks me as it is a giant black crap stain on those of us who actually have taken the time money and commitment to be a part of this industry/endeavour/hobby/whatever.



Funny thing is, there are exactly 4 groups on FB dealing with keystone trailers my wife joined. many of you are members of at least one. Yet you dont pull this crap there. why is that? oh that is right, you have no power over other users there.



That is the crux of the problem and why people are being driven away. I spent a little time reading backwards and found that newcomers ask a towing or tech question, once before the tow karens pounce. they never come back. no one picked up on that? set your goals high I always say.


I have been a member of IVR2 and its sub sites for at least a decade before anyone here and I have *NEVER* seen such behaviour. Is it just the keystone brand that drives this? dunno. dont care. Your treatment of the latest new member was the last straw.



Shoulda trusted my instinct when I saw it the first time, but once again, I bargained in good faith. I will not make the same mistake twice. Im out. It was never actually offered but the candy store is closed.


And for the record, I did not seek the OP out. not everyone is as dumb as you play them to be. people tend to flesh out nonsense on their own. Its true in any endeavour, when someone understands the subject material, its obvious. You should take a long time to adopt a little humility and think on that for a while. you wont. but you should.


ps Jasin? the little green pill is easy to get, might help the obsession.

You have made a lot of comments relating to things that apparently mean something to you.

Passive/aggressive 8th graders? You, the royal YOU, the tow KARENS! Well, I've seen that term in various publications by what I consider maybe "karens"....what is that for normal people? You have used that term at least twice in attempts to denigrate others that you obviously, in your mind, believe are beneath you.....sorry.

You said your done and out, confirm and I will make that happen.
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Old 10-25-2021, 07:14 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by BCBorn View Post
Most uneducated individuals go out buy a trailer take it home and find out its too heavy (but the dealer told me I can pull 10,000lbs) for their truck and then go out and buy a new truck.

If you look on this site at what many members own, seems if you own anything less than a 2500/3500 you shouldn't own a travel trailer greater than 18 feet.
Since this is the thread that never ends....but unless I missed it, I don't recall much info on your Tacoma. I know you said it was a double cab, 4x4, but what else:

-What year is it?

-Did it come with a V6 and the factory Trailer Tow Package?

-What is the 14 character model code from the door jamb certification label? Depending on vehicle year, it looks like there are several variations that can impact tow ratings.

-Doesn't look like an OEM trailer brake controller is an option, did you install one?
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Old 10-25-2021, 07:46 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by quaddriver View Post
I have sat by watching the passive aggressive 8th grade bs stuff long enough. Now you, the royal you, the tow karens, get your well earned dressing. It wont be pleasant.



Lets go to the map, is ANYONE here, at all, trained, certified and or licensed in any way to install, modify, paper, inspect and certify trucks and/or trailers, BESIDES me?



NO. then why are you speaking?



"well I got a big truck and a big trailer and I drive up hills at 80mph therefore I have experience so if you will excuse me I will now go walk around the campground and tell people their truck is too small"



No, you are the next 1/2 mile long wreck with injuries that my brother gets to clean up off the PCH or other officers like him around this country. You dont even know that you dont even know. Its not an indictment per se, there is no requirement for anything. But when I read hundreds of posts in many dozens of threads from people with no subject education, no tools, no practical experience, no certifications, no plaques, no professional licenses, yet telling how wrong other people are whose only mistake was bargaining in good faith. It sorta irks me as it is a giant black crap stain on those of us who actually have taken the time money and commitment to be a part of this industry/endeavour/hobby/whatever.



Funny thing is, there are exactly 4 groups on FB dealing with keystone trailers my wife joined. many of you are members of at least one. Yet you dont pull this crap there. why is that? oh that is right, you have no power over other users there.



That is the crux of the problem and why people are being driven away. I spent a little time reading backwards and found that newcomers ask a towing or tech question, once before the tow karens pounce. they never come back. no one picked up on that? set your goals high I always say.


I have been a member of IVR2 and its sub sites for at least a decade before anyone here and I have *NEVER* seen such behaviour. Is it just the keystone brand that drives this? dunno. dont care. Your treatment of the latest new member was the last straw.



Shoulda trusted my instinct when I saw it the first time, but once again, I bargained in good faith. I will not make the same mistake twice. Im out. It was never actually offered but the candy store is closed.


And for the record, I did not seek the OP out. not everyone is as dumb as you play them to be. people tend to flesh out nonsense on their own. Its true in any endeavour, when someone understands the subject material, its obvious. You should take a long time to adopt a little humility and think on that for a while. you wont. but you should.


ps Jasin? the little green pill is easy to get, might help the obsession.
I was one of the people with a undersized truck and oversized fifth wheel…I argued and got mad and then finally listened to people on the forum with more experience then me.. it was humility that made me change my way of thinking…are we all suppose to just sit back and wait till you comment on a towing subject because your the expert?…I didn’t just lash out at everyone and pick my toys up and go home.
I have had all sizes of trucks.. I have a little jeep tj that I have to weld back together on a regular basis…I’m not better then anyone else and I don’t belittle anyone.

As far as the reference to the little green pill? Geez talk about 8th grade stuff.. I have no obsession issues my friend

You obviously have some knowledge and something to offer to the forum…if YOU can gain some humility and we can all act like adults and not insult each other it would be a more productive conversation.
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Old 10-25-2021, 08:30 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBorn View Post
Most uneducated individuals go out buy a trailer take it home and find out its too heavy (but the dealer told me I can pull 10,000lbs) for their truck and then go out and buy a new truck.

If you look on this site at what many members own, seems if you own anything less than a 2500/3500 you shouldn't own a travel trailer greater than 18 feet.
That's the biggest issue with anyone, especially newbies, nowadays. The truck & RV dealers spouting truck towing weights & RV dry weights both of which mean absolutely nothing in the real rv world but sound great to make their sales quota.
No you don't need a 2500-3500 tow vehicle unless the actual weights, not the fantasy weights from websites, warrant that much truck.
I didn't mean to belittle or intentionally try to make the OP unwelcome, but when someone post a tow vehicle that's glaringly obvious attempting to tow a RV that's too much for that tow vehicle I intend to point that out in an effort to keep them & everyone else on the highway safe. Call me weight police or a tow Karen, but I will continue to point this out every time I see it happening.
To be quite honest I'm not on any of the FB RV discussions but have read a few & quite honestly there's a boat load of knuckleheads giving very misleading advice to those seeking answers. This forum is a great source for good honest advice from folks with years of rv experience even a couple rv technicians that work on them daily, not a bunch of guys that have been rving 15 minutes & suddenly know everything from FB.
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Old 10-26-2021, 08:48 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
That's the biggest issue with anyone, especially newbies, nowadays. The truck & RV dealers spouting truck towing weights & RV dry weights both of which mean absolutely nothing in the real rv world but sound great to make their sales quota.
No you don't need a 2500-3500 tow vehicle unless the actual weights, not the fantasy weights from websites, warrant that much truck.
I didn't mean to belittle or intentionally try to make the OP unwelcome, but when someone post a tow vehicle that's glaringly obvious attempting to tow a RV that's too much for that tow vehicle I intend to point that out in an effort to keep them & everyone else on the highway safe. Call me weight police or a tow Karen, but I will continue to point this out every time I see it happening.
To be quite honest I'm not on any of the FB RV discussions but have read a few & quite honestly there's a boat load of knuckleheads giving very misleading advice to those seeking answers. This forum is a great source for good honest advice from folks with years of rv experience even a couple rv technicians that work on them daily, not a bunch of guys that have been rving 15 minutes & suddenly know everything from FB.
Seems like this subject or related brings out the worst in some posters. Not much sense in calling names or belittling other posters for differing opinions. I think the powers that be might want to review the Community Rules which more or less keep us civil. Site team, see if those rules are taking a beating.

And folks, for the sake of an old person with limited reading skills, please keep posts under 17 pages; some of the posts have been getting really tedious, especially the ones that are attempting to analyze tongue weights; a subject that seems to be quite popular with the debate team of posters.
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Old 10-29-2021, 05:55 AM   #74
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>Just head to your local Cat scales, pay the $10 to weigh your truck loaded ready to camp,

Download the Cat "Weigh My Truck" app, create your account, find the local scale. If you have locations turned on, it'll find the scale - otherwise you'd put in the scale number. Go through the process, pull on to the scale when it says and it'll display the weight in the app. Screen shot for immediate record keeping and you'll get an email with the official ticket later. $12.50/weight.

Screenshot:


> (but the dealer told me I can pull 10,000lbs)
Same discussion with the wife about a potential new F-150. Why I'd likely pick the $2K upgrade to a 5.0 vs a 3.5 Ecoboost. And why you'd need 3.73 rear in a 4x2 SuperCrew to get the GCVW rating to safely pull the Springdale 220RD. Assuming we'd need to be in the 13K+ GCVW zone to be right. Also, just because it is rated for the "dead weight" doesn't mean it's going to be comfy at speed on the road, because it's 10.5' tall and 8' wide and catching hella wind.
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