Waste Dump Replacement Valve Challenge

[Sherwolfe]

Recently had leakage out of my "black tank" waste valve. At first I decided to place the additional "gate valve" on my sewer hose connection to avoid the spillage and nasty stuff that would come out when removing cap. Of course after realizing this was only a temporary fix to my problem, decided to fix the problem rather than just the temporary solution.

Discovered a number of issues while undertaking this "Challenging" task. First, there is absolutely NO WAY to change out either the "black tank or gray tank" valve without cutting between either the "black tank and the valve or the gray tank and the valve" Based on the installation of the tanks and all underbelly plumping, clearly before they put the floor down, they leave absolutely no wiggle room to pull the gate valve out and certainly no ability to get it back in along with seating the gaskets.

So, making the decision to cut the pipe and choosing the "gray tank" side instead of the "black tank" in case there happens to be any leakage near the cut I felt I choose wisely to cut the "gray tank"

Now keep in mind the three inch pipe I was cutting only has 1 1/2 inches between the flanges of the "gray tank" and the flange for the gate valve. But cut I did, then of course had to cut out enough to actually allow enough room for removal and insertion of valve. Also while doing this choose to replace both valves because I am already doing this instead of having to repeat this later.

So to put this all back together I found a 2 inch rubber pipe splice for a 3 inch pipe connection, cut it down to 1 1/2 inches. This required a lot of lubricant to slide it up over the flange on the "gray tank" while putting the valves in place.

All said and done, this did work, but wow it was a lot of work. Oh and did I mention that before removing all this I discovered that while building my trailer they just crushed the heater vent for the bathroom. So I repaired that and taped up the holes they put in it.

I also rerouted some wiring they had laying on some sharp metal as well a moved a water line that the "gray tank" valve was already cutting into. Geez, I understand they try to build them fast, but just a little extra looking could have saved some time.

BTW, a piece of paper jammed the "black tank" valve. Also, when flushing tank I found two of those disposable toliet packets that never dissolved.

None the less, new valves and all works great now.

[K_N_L]

Gotta love the incidentals you find while fixing 1 thing. I have a buddy who sez he's not buying a new camper as he doesn't want to deal with all the shakedown items, so he's still rocking his 2007 which he knows back and forth, and I understand that completely ... Thanks for sharing.

[Sherwolfe]

Originally Posted by K_N_L

Gotta love the incidentals you find while fixing 1 thing. I have a buddy who sez he's not buying a new camper as he doesn't want to deal with all the shakedown items, so he's still rocking his 2007 which he knows back and forth, and I understand that completely ... Thanks for sharing.

Sounds like some good logic, I might just keep mine for years for that very reason.

[travelin texans]

Normally you'd just remove the 4 bolts & pull the gate portion of the sandwich valve out & replace it without cutting any piping. It's still some times very snug, but still easier than cutting piping.

[Sherwolfe]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Normally you'd just remove the 4 bolts & pull the gate portion of the sandwich valve out & replace it without cutting any piping. It's still some times very snug, but still easier than cutting piping.

Oh believe me, if I could have just removed the four bolts and pulled the old one out and put the new back in I would have done it. However, after removing the four bolts and finding I could barely get a flat blade screwdriver in there to pry open the flange I decided the cutting of the pipe was my only option short of pulling the tank out.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Normally you'd just remove the 4 bolts & pull the gate portion of the sandwich valve out & replace it without cutting any piping. It's still some times very snug, but still easier than cutting piping.

The fella who just cut and used the rubber piece is in the same situation as my trailer. You CAN NOT repeat CAN NOT pull out the old valve much less put in a new one with seals. There just is NOT enough give between black and grey tanks. I think you might get a little give by loosening the cross braces that hold the tanks but not sure given they are both hard attached to drains above and the pipes are pretty large diameter.

I tried to replace my dump valve on the black tank and ran into this issue and gave up for the time being due the amount of labor necessitated by a dumb design.

[Randyf7f]

Had the same issue with our '07 Raptor - leaking black tank valve. It was never fun taking off the sewer cap. I started by cutting out a "U" in the underbelly with a drywall knife to gain access (so I could simply fold it closed and secure it when done). To get the right location for the cut-out, I dropped the liner an inch or so on the outside edges to measure to the valve then, from underneath, felt around for a crossmember so as to cut the 'door' where it would be easy to fold closed and secure to the crossmember. While it was very tight, I was able to use wedges here and there between the black tank and the existing structure/plumbing in order to seperate and hold the flanges apart, giving just enough room to get the valve out. Since the seals sit in a recess in both the valve and the flanges, you need some seperation - particularly when installing. It was a bit more trouble sliding the new valve in without dislodging the seals (and I had to drive the wedges tighter), but after a couple of tries putting the seals in first, then the valve - then vice-versa (and I can't recall which ended up working), all ended up in place. I did use some silicone grease to help hold the seals in place. It is nice to now remove the sewer cap with confidence!

One other note: When sourcing a new valve, I wanted only the valve - not the valve with cable (as our cable was fine), I was told by the mfg. that I must order the valve with the cable, as there was no way to attach the existing cable to a "T" pull valve. Figuring there must be a simple way to mate the two, I picked up the (less expensive) "T" valve from the local RV shop, unscrewed the T handle, and the cable from the existing valve attached perfectly.

[terrypen]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Normally you'd just remove the 4 bolts & pull the gate portion of the sandwich valve out & replace it without cutting any piping. It's still some times very snug, but still easier than cutting piping.

That would be awesome if that actually worked! I have been struggling for two days on this exact issue. I cannot gain enough room between the flanges (short about 3/16" to 1/4", about the height of the lip on one of the flanges) and built myself a pry tool to pry one side while crowbarring the other side. Finally broke down and called a mobile rv repair, waiting for him to show up.
They seriously need some kind of easily replaceable flexible coupling in there, I would rather replace that every year than deal with this every 10 years!!!

*EDIT* BTW, there is not enough piping for me to cut out a 1" section (or 1/2" for that matter) to put a rubber connection in there! The pieces they used to mate the fittings together were barely long enough for the mating surfaces.

[IrishPatNJ]

Hoping I can save some others the struggles i faced. See the picture of the final product. The view is from the front of the rig looking back.

• The two front tanks (one black; one grey) are piped together without room to remove and reinstall new valve or gaskets. (If you do get them in, the gaskets will likely crimp and leak)
• Flush both tanks REALLY well and fully drain them.
• Remove the belly cover and fold out of the way.
• Cut the 3" pipe in the two locations where you see my rubber couplings in the picture.
• Install the driver's side (grey valve) first with the one rubber coupling in place. You'll have enough "play" to get everything in)
• Be sure to put rubber gaskets onto existing flanges first and then slide the valve in place making sure not to dislodge the gaskets.
• Now install the black tank valve with the 3" rubber coupling in place but slid out of the way so you have full freedom to move the pipe mating to the valve.
• Once installed, ensure the 3" rubber couplings are properly straddling the cuts you've made in the pipe.
• Tighten everything up.
• Test for leaks.
• You should be able to complete this in 2-3 hours instead of the 2-3 days it took me.

Good luck!

[terrypen]

Originally Posted by IrishPatNJ

Hoping I can save some others the struggles i faced. See the picture of the final product. The view is from the front of the rig looking back.

• Cut the 3" pipe in the two locations where you see my rubber couplings in the picture.
  

Good luck!

Just me personally, I'd try to only cut the 1.5" - 2" section where the rubber coupling is on the right side and then disconnect both valves on the left of that (from your pic perspective.) That way, you'd only have one rubber coupling (just one coupling for possible/probable future leak) but this is just my opinion and wish I had seen this before trying to 'man-handle' mine out of the rigid section! I had to patch my tank at the outlet due to the stress of tweaking/twisting to get the valve out. And it's started leaking again, so I'm going to have to replace my black tank!

[IrishPatNJ]

Originally Posted by terrypen

Just me personally, I'd try to only cut the 1.5" - 2" section where the rubber coupling is on the right side and then disconnect both valves on the left of that (from your pic perspective.) That way, you'd only have one rubber coupling (just one coupling for possible/probable future leak) but this is just my opinion and wish I had seen this before trying to 'man-handle' mine out of the rigid section! I had to patch my tank at the outlet due to the stress of tweaking/twisting to get the valve out. And it's started leaking again, so I'm going to have to replace my black tank!

Can't argue with your logic. That may be the way to go. I sort of "backed into" needing two cuts. I was able to get the passenger side (black tank) valve completed without any cuts, and once it was done, I didn't want to tempt fate. It's POSSIBLE that one cut will do it, but I'm not sure. We'll have to just wait for the next poor sucker to give it a try

[Old Mustanger]

Originally Posted by Sherwolfe

. Also, when flushing tank I found two of those disposable toliet packets that never dissolved.

We always "open" these packets in the toilet bowl with the water we are flushing them down with, if they don't open on their own by dissolving the wrap we punch it open with something like a Qtip so the water we flush is already blue when it gets to the tank. (I say we because the DW usually does this task).

[JRTJH]

There were several reports last summer from members who reported that holding tank chemical packets had not dissolved as advertised. Some reported problems with the packets catching in valves and causing problems. We haven't used packets but rather use liquid deodorant if/when we use anything. The suggestions from many last summer were to peel the packets open and pour the contents into the toilet and then disposing of the plastic packet in the trash rather than in the holding tank.

[sourdough]

IMO the packets are a bad deal waiting to cause a problem. Used the once...only once. We have the clear elbow on the dump valve and what do you see....while flushing? The little packets still waiting to completely dissolve. I refuse to use them anywhere but, unfortunately, I bought those to try to "simplify" things. My determination - don't use them.

[Sherwolfe]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There were several reports last summer from members who reported that holding tank chemical packets had not dissolved as advertised. Some reported problems with the packets catching in valves and causing problems. We haven't used packets but rather use liquid deodorant if/when we use anything. The suggestions from many last summer were to peel the packets open and pour the contents into the toilet and then disposing of the plastic packet in the trash rather than in the holding tank.

We became suspicious these packets were not dissolving earlier this camping season so I did a test by putting one in a glass of water. Well it did not dissolve so since then we started to open them as you mention and put the contents in the tank. I did see a difference when dumping after this, less solids and clumps of paper.

The packets that did come out where discovered when doing several tank fills and dumping prior to my valve replacement in our attempts to get the tank as clean as possible, YUK. That said, I did get this down to pretty clear water prior to the work, thank goodness.

Without question it was the failure of these packets to properly function which caused more solids and paper to build up over time. Got it all cleaned out now and plan on switching over to the liquid treatment and using a lot more water when flushing, lesson learned.

[B-O-B'03]

I purchased this powder, when we bought the trailer, still using it and it seems to work great.

64, 40 gallon treatments, less than a buck each.

-Brian

[Dave W]

I have not used these packets but occasionally, not every dump, use the bottled odor control stuff and have been for many tears.

FWIW, our black tank flows way to slowly to evacuate it completely of all the stuck on the tank walls crud. I usually do a back flush, either by using the flush port on the Flo-Tech macerator or if using a stinky slinky, a Camco or Thetford back flusher. This back flush really does a good job of keeping the tank cleaned out. A word of caution though is to never forget that it's on. The built in tank flush kinda works but really doesn't do the job completely.

[mrsbryant]

Originally Posted by B-O-B'03

I purchased this powder, when we bought the trailer, still using it and it seems to work great.

64, 40 gallon treatments, less than a buck each.

-Brian

I use the same. Never the blue, never any packets, crystals, etc. Happy Campers powder is the best. Dump a scoop or two in the toilet and use your brush to clean your toilet with it before flushing it down to make everything sparkling clean.



My valve failure is most likely due to not having ever lubricated it , or maybe the plastic cracking from age and extreme temperatures.



My tank is completely full so I'll have to cut into the valve cover to pull the slide with needle nose or vice grips so I can drain the tank and replace the valve. Wish me luck this weekend, or maybe next (I'm a procrastinator).

[ctbruce]

Funny thing about tanks. They're either falling out while traveling loaded or they won't budge to change the gate valve. There's apparently no in between!

[MattE303]

I've been using this stuff for about a year. I put about a half gallon of water in the toilet, drop in 1 or 2 packets and wait for them to dissolve before flushing, then pour the rest of the water in. They've never failed to dissolve so far...