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Old 05-12-2023, 11:19 AM   #1
JeLo
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new fireplace on TV power outlet?

good day folks,

we are currently updating our old 2012 Cougar High Country and we are looking at this fireplace to be installed below the TV.

https://www.recpro.com/rv-electric-f...xbjk28gfA1j_IY

the breaker for the TV power outlet is 15 amp., it's linked with 3 other power outlets in the living room which is only used to charge phones and tablets.

Do you think it is safe to plug the fireplace on the same circuit? running another wire with a dedicated breaker would required changing my converter.

Last question, this fireplace has a close proximity shut off sensor, for the dog owners with the same fireplace, is this sensor really sensitive ? is there any other fireplace without this sensor?

Thanks!
JL
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Old 05-12-2023, 11:54 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by JeLo View Post
good day folks,

we are currently updating our old 2012 Cougar High Country and we are looking at this fireplace to be installed below the TV.

https://www.recpro.com/rv-electric-f...xbjk28gfA1j_IY

the breaker for the TV power outlet is 15 amp., it's linked with 3 other power outlets in the living room which is only used to charge phones and tablets.

Do you think it is safe to plug the fireplace on the same circuit? running another wire with a dedicated breaker would required changing my converter.

Last question, this fireplace has a close proximity shut off sensor, for the dog owners with the same fireplace, is this sensor really sensitive ? is there any other fireplace without this sensor?

Thanks!
JL
I am no master electrician, and this is my opinion only, but if the other outlets are not going to be used with heavy draws on them at the same time as the fireplace, I don't see why not, but know that if you ever forget, you could start popping breakers. Just my 2 cents
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Old 05-12-2023, 11:56 AM   #3
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The unit alone draws 15A, which means that it should be on its own circuit. If you are 100% sure that there are no other outlets on that circuit, you could conceivably operate it without issue. We use a small space heater with two power settings and can run other items on that circuit as long as we keep it on low power mode (which is usually plenty for us).

As far as the proximity sensor, it won't trigger walking by it, but depending on how close it is to the floor and if your dog likes to lay up against warm things or something else leans up against the unit, it will shut off before there is a risk of overheating and fire.
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Old 05-12-2023, 12:04 PM   #4
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The unit alone draws 15A, which means that it should be on its own circuit. If you are 100% sure that there are no other outlets on that circuit, you could conceivably operate it without issue. We use a small space heater with two power settings and can run other items on that circuit as long as we keep it on low power mode (which is usually plenty for us).

As far as the proximity sensor, it won't trigger walking by it, but depending on how close it is to the floor and if your dog likes to lay up against warm things or something else leans up against the unit, it will shut off before there is a risk of overheating and fire.
The specs said max 12.5A draw. I would not be comfortable putting that heating element on a 15A romex wiring anyway. I would consider connecting a 20A outlet in the vicinity of the fireplace and running some yellow/20A romex to an outside wall and installing a Marinco plug. I did this with my microwave which didn't like running at the same time as my A/C. I connect to a pedestal 20A outlet with an extension cord.
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Old 05-12-2023, 01:50 PM   #5
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As George noted; I misspoke on the amp draw. 12.5A draw is correct.

On a somewhat unrelated note; I recall looking at travel trailers a few years ago and saw a model with an outdoor “fireplace” in the exterior wall of the camper under the awning. Never saw much point in it then and now we are seeing these things inside as standard “features”. I will just stick with my portable Pelonis Disc Furnace………
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Old 05-13-2023, 01:29 AM   #6
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TVs typically draw really minimal power these days. The question is, what else will you be running on that circuit? DVR? Cable box? Satellite? (The radio/stereo is DC, so it's free.) If you're charging phones and tablets on the same circuit, you can be eating 2A per iPad plus whatever. I'd run everything you have now all at once, with a clamp meter around the breaker lead, and see what headroom you really have.
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Old 05-14-2023, 02:42 AM   #7
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thanks for the suggestions and comments.
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Old 05-14-2023, 04:29 AM   #8
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Appliances should always be on a dedicated circuit…I would also be concerned about tv interference when using the fireplace and tv on the same circuit besides the safety issue.
The wfco converter( distribution box) uses residential breakers so you could use a tandem breaker to free up one extra space..stick with all the same manufacturers breakers..i used the square D as an example…yours may all be cutler hammer or ite
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Old 05-14-2023, 05:32 AM   #9
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Appliances should always be on a dedicated circuit…I would also be concerned about tv interference when using the fireplace and tv on the same circuit besides the safety issue.
The wfco converter uses residential breakers so you could use a tandem breaker to free up one extra space
This is the best option, a separate 20 amp circuit run with 12 gauge wire.
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Old 05-15-2023, 06:50 AM   #10
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Appliances should always be on a dedicated circuit…I would also be concerned about tv interference when using the fireplace and tv on the same circuit besides the safety issue.
The wfco converter uses residential breakers so you could use a tandem breaker to free up one extra space..stick with all the same manufacturers breakers..i used the square D as an example…yours may all be cutler hammer or ite
I just checked my wfco power distribution center and I have 2 spaces left for more breakers. I guess a dedicated circuit will be the way to go.

thanks!
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Old 05-15-2023, 07:04 AM   #11
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Just for clarification:
I’m sure you mean WFCO power distribution panel. The converter doesn’t have breakers.
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Old 05-15-2023, 07:09 AM   #12
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Just for clarification:
I’m sure you mean WFCO power distribution panel. The converter doesn’t have breakers.
correct, I edited my post, thanks!
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Old 05-18-2023, 01:55 PM   #13
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Although you are probable within the circuit capacity if you have EVER looked at the receptacle connection in an RV you might want to double think this or at the least figure out how to put in an actual residential receptacle.
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Old 05-19-2023, 07:33 AM   #14
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[QUOTE=NH_Bulldog;535665]The unit alone draws 15A, which means that it should be on its own circuit. If you are 100% sure that there are no other outlets on that circuit, you could conceivably operate it without issue. We use a small space heater with two power settings and can run other items on that circuit as long as we keep it on low power mode (which is usually plenty for us).

Since the OP has already stated (after having received advice from the forum) that he plans to install the new electric fireplace on a 20 amp circuit, the following comment is meant to be informative only. First, a circuit breaker’s rating (15, 20, 30 etc) is a “free air” designation, meaning that IF NOT installed in an enclosure, it will deliver its rated capacity infinitely (UL 489 standard for Safety Molded Case Circuit Breakers @104F in free air). However this is not a realistic installation scenario. The 1996 NEC (National Electric Code section 384-16-c) began recognizing that overcurrent protective devices (breakers, fuses) would be affected by heat when installed in an enclosure. The 80% rule was into the NEC’s rule publication to offset the effects of heat when sizing a circuit breaker (wire sizing calculation also follows a similar de-rating of 125%). In simple terms, a 15 amp breaker installed in an enclosure has a maximum continuous rating of 12 amps (as measured by an ammeter). At 120 volts this equates to 1440 watts for a 15 amp breaker. A 20 amp breaker installed in an enclosure, following the 80% rule is rated continuous for 16 amps. At 120 volts this equates to 1920 watts. Regardless of what a manufacturer may state on a spec sheet, the NEC standard must be considered the code requirement. So let’s look at the RecPro spec sheet the OP provided. Note that the figures in the spec sheet were mis-quoted by others in some of the posts by saying since the fireplace uses 12.5, it l work OK on a 15 amp circuit. This is not true. Under the 80% rule, a measured amperage 12 is the maximum continuous allowed.


Specs:

Dimensions: 21.375” x 28.375”
Cutout size: Approximately 19-5/8" x 26-1/4"
Voltage: 120V AC
Wattage: 1500
Current Rating: 6.25 Low, 12.5 High
Measured Current: 6.0 Low, 11.1 High
Fusing: 15a
BTU: 5100

The manufacturer lists the measured current as 11.1 amps. IF, and I say IF the fireplace does indeed use 11.1 amps (MEASURED), then the fireplace could be installed (not sharing with anything else) on a REASONABLE length of 14 ga. Wire and be NEC compliant. So now comes the problem for us RV people. When connected to shore power that often can deliver less than optimum voltage than 120, the amperage rises as the voltage lowers. Installing a fireplace which consumes a borderline allowable amps on a 15 amp circuit is not a good idea. Also, an RV power center may produce enough internal heat to upset our marginal installation calculation. Please note I’m omitting other factors such as undersized shore power cord conductors (ie extension cords) and shore power cords of excessive length which produce voltage losses. This would be another boring read from the NEC.

So what is the takeaway I’d like to convey? Consider the totality of appliance current amps (things that by themselves use a lot of amps like a fireplace or space heater, hair drier etc.) or combination of appliances and devices (things plugged into outlets that use smaller amounts of current) that will be operating on each circuit breaker. Do not exceed the 80% rule of 12 amps on a 15 amp breaker and 16 amps on a 20 amp breaker. Do not confuse rated with actual amps. Trust and verify what you see in printed specs. If in doubt, get your amp meter out.
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Old 05-19-2023, 02:53 PM   #15
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That fireplace and the TV and other electronic devices can run all day on that 15 amp circuit. It would be prudent to pull out the receptacle to verify that the wires are firmly attached to the connectors.
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Old 05-19-2023, 03:22 PM   #16
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That fireplace and the TV and other electronic devices can run all day on that 15 amp circuit. It would be prudent to pull out the receptacle to verify that the wires are firmly attached to the connectors.
I would prefer to install a quality outlet in a shallow box and screw the wires to lugs. The wires vibrate out of those blade things and make me nervous. I can't argue the merits of running on a 15A 14 gauge romex Firesttion 12 made a pretty convincing argument as he seems to understand this kind of thing where I am just an amateur electrician.
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Old 05-19-2023, 04:43 PM   #17
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That fireplace and the TV and other electronic devices can run all day on that 15 amp circuit. It would be prudent to pull out the receptacle to verify that the wires are firmly attached to the connectors.
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I would prefer to install a quality outlet in a shallow box and screw the wires to lugs. The wires vibrate out of those blade things and make me nervous. I can't argue the merits of running on a 15A 14 gauge romex Firesttion 12 made a pretty convincing argument as he seems to understand this kind of thing where I am just an amateur electrician.
Bobbecky, wiring in RVs is less than dependable, I would not press ones luck.

I agree with wiredgeorge, good quality outlet, I have started using backwired, that the terminal screw clamps the connection. I find these to be as secure as warping the wire around the terminal screw. We have a separate circuit for our add in fireplace. 12 gauge wire 20 amp breaker.
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Old 05-20-2023, 11:45 AM   #18
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That fireplace and the TV and other electronic devices can run all day on that 15 amp circuit. It would be prudent to pull out the receptacle to verify that the wires are firmly attached to the connectors.
As the saying goes, you have a right to your own opinions but not to your own facts. Much of rule making is not only influenced by science, but often is modified and updated because of lessons learned from unforeseen accidents sometimes involving loss of life. Plane crashes, failed space launches, fire, explosions, car crashes, electrocutions, equipment failures, building collapse, all have contributed to safer standard of design, manufacturing, and function. Encouraging someone to make their RV into electrical test lab in violation of a known standard is dangerous behavior.
[QUOTE]
“That fireplace and the TV and other electronic devices can run all day on that 15 amp circuit. It would be prudent to pull out the receptacle to verify that the wires are firmly attached to the connectors.”
This would be similar to telling a 3/4 ton truck owner “yeah buddy, you can pull that 16k 5er all day long fully loaded with no problem. It would be prudent to first kick the tires before ya light the fires”.

Try posting the above towing advice on this forum and see the response.
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Old 05-20-2023, 04:11 PM   #19
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Not piling on but feel it is also prudent to remind everyone that "replacing the blade type outlet with a quality box and a "screw type terminal outlet" does NOTHING to the "daisy chain outlets further up the line"....

It's a "false sense of security" to think that replacing that single outlet with a safer one" will do anything for the rest of the outlets and wiring connections on that circuit....

When all is said and done, whether the fire started behind the fireplace in "that cheap outlet" or in the outlet the TV is plugged into (on the same circuit, just one outlet further down the line) is pretty much irrelevant....

What is relevant is that there are numerous blade type outlets used throughout the trailer. Changing out the "one for the fireplace" and not changing out the rest on that same circuit will not do much for safety, considering all that "increased amperage" is still flowing through "knife connections" along the entire circuit.....

So, don't just "focus on the outlet behind the fireplace" but consider the entire line of ROMEX, outlets along the circuit run from the circuit breaker to the LAST OUTLET in the daisy chain.... EVERY one of them is carrying the entire load applied to the circuit back to the circuit breaker....
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Old 05-20-2023, 05:00 PM   #20
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Not piling on but feel it is also prudent to remind everyone that "replacing the blade type outlet with a quality box and a "screw type terminal outlet" does NOTHING to the "daisy chain outlets further up the line"....

It's a "false sense of security" to think that replacing that single outlet with a safer one" will do anything for the rest of the outlets and wiring connections on that circuit....

When all is said and done, whether the fire started behind the fireplace in "that cheap outlet" or in the outlet the TV is plugged into (on the same circuit, just one outlet further down the line) is pretty much irrelevant....

What is relevant is that there are numerous blade type outlets used throughout the trailer. Changing out the "one for the fireplace" and not changing out the rest on that same circuit will not do much for safety, considering all that "increased amperage" is still flowing through "knife connections" along the entire circuit.....

So, don't just "focus on the outlet behind the fireplace" but consider the entire line of ROMEX, outlets along the circuit run from the circuit breaker to the LAST OUTLET in the daisy chain.... EVERY one of them is carrying the entire load applied to the circuit back to the circuit breaker....
Amen to that.
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