Leveling Up Camper Wise

[Wilks]

Looking to tap into the vast amounts of experience here on a recommendation on a tow vehicle to pull a Cougar 25RDS camper. Camper weighs 6340 unloaded....835 hitch weight. I originally was considering a GMC Sierra 1500 with max tow package but am reconsidering after reading some here.


what say youse?

[Max23]

Sorry to say, that unit is to big for any 1/2 ton to carry. Take it from someone who has a unit much lighter than yours and is using a 1/2 ton with max tow package to haul it. Cat scale says, huh-uh. The old saying of weight you add makes a % of weight to the truck is not always correct. I am under all my weight capacities (slightly I might add), however I go over my rear axle capacity if I try to run it with fresh water tank full. I am in the search for a 3/4 ton truck to make the experience of running down the interstate more pleasant and not exceeding capacity. Again, keep in mind, mine TT is lighter than yours dry. I can speak from experience, do not do a 1/2 ton. Just my opinion, but it's from a lesson learned.

[Wilks]

Originally Posted by Max23

Sorry to say, that unit is to big for any 1/2 ton to carry. Take it from someone who has a unit much lighter than yours and is using a 1/2 ton with max tow package to haul it. Cat scale says, huh-uh. The old saying of weight you add makes a % of weight to the truck is not always correct. I am under all my weight capacities (slightly I might add), however I go over my rear axle capacity if I try to run it with fresh water tank full. I am in the search for a 3/4 ton truck to make the experience of running down the interstate more pleasant and not exceeding capacity. Again, keep in mind, mine TT is lighter than yours dry. I can speak from experience, do not do a 1/2 ton. Just my opinion, but it's from a lesson learned.

appreciate the real world response...after joining here and reading up some I figured I was going to need a 2500...now gas or diesel? lol

[Essvar]

Originally Posted by Wilks

appreciate the real world response...after joining here and reading up some I figured I was going to need a 2500...now gas or diesel? lol

I'm sure others will chime in, but my vote is to skip the 3/4 ton and just get a 1tn. The cost difference is negligible, they ride and drive very similar (I actually prefer the 3500 leaf spring to the 2500 coil overs for Dodges) and last but not least... that pesky magical sticker gives you more payload with the 1tn.

[Max23]

Gas or diesel, personal preference. The diesel will have less payload capacity as they weigh more to begin with. Today's big gas motors put out plenty of torque and hp but diesel does more. I'm going with gas, less maintenance with filters and additives etc, but, you do you man! LOL

[Kirk's Keystone Outback.]

Originally Posted by Wilks

Looking to tap into the vast amounts of experience here on a recommendation on a tow vehicle to pull a Cougar 25RDS camper. Camper weighs 6340 unloaded....835 hitch weight. I originally was considering a GMC Sierra 1500 with max tow package but am reconsidering after reading some here.


what say youse?

Just as Max has stated, it's not a good look for the half ton with that weight. I also pulled my 30' TT for 2 years with a F150 3.5 EcoBoost / with max tow, and I had pretty much maxed out the payload, limited to local camping trips. I now have a F250 to do the job, with plenty of room (weight) to spare.

[Tater]

As for gas vs diesel, are you towing local or long distances?
I had no problem towing my 5th wheel around Michigan with my gas truck, but I don’t think it would have been a pleasurable experience towing it to Texas this year.
Towing with a diesel seems to be more relaxing.
Although maintenance on a diesel is quite a bit more expensive.






Ram 3500 w the 6.7 Cummins.
Alpine 3102RL

[Wilks]

Originally Posted by Tater

As for gas vs diesel, are you towing local or long distances?
I had no problem towing my 5th wheel around Michigan with my gas truck, but I don’t think it would have been a pleasurable experience towing it to Texas this year.
Towing with a diesel seems to be more relaxing.
Although maintenance on a diesel is quite a bit more expensive.






Ram 3500 w the 6.7 Cummins.
Alpine 3102RL

A lot of relatively local (within 300 miles) but planning more out of state and longer travel.

[fjr vfr]

First if you don't want to spend the $10 for the CAT scale and find out how much your trailer weighs then always refer to the gross weight. The dry weights or empty weights are very optimistically low at best.
As for gas or diesel I'd agree with the local verses long distance comments. Diesel is more maintenance and fuel is expensive, but much of that is offset by the increased fuel economy. My diesel's fuel mileage is much better than my previous gas truck.
We travel all over the country and the diesel handles the miles much better, but if we were staying more local it might not be worth the expense and maintenance.
Good luck deciding

[dutchmensport]

Gas or diesel? After owning both, I'll not go back to gas for towing. We have 2 trucks. The 3500 dually diesel beast of a truck for towing the camper, and a smaller (Chevy Colorado) gasser for daily running around.

We considered getting a motor home years and years ago. If we went that direction that entire unit would pretty much have been dedicated for camping use only. We wanted the ability to separate the driving machine from the sleeping machine for mobility when camped.

The compromise was to get the truck and trailer, but the truck's main purpose was for towing the camper (or many campers we've had over the years). It's primary usage would be the same as if the entire "rig" were a motor home. But as a completely secondary purpose, it works well as a second vehicle, but not our primary run around.

Cost wise, the dually diesel long bed 1 ton and even the Fifth wheel combination was still less than getting a CLASS A. So for us, this was the win-win. The truck is big, powerful, can tow anything, and it's primary mission is for towing the trailer. Everything else is secondary. It does come in handy for towing our utility trailer, hauling stuff that way. But the main purpose is never forgotten.... to tow the travel trailer.

If you approach your tow vehicle with that same frame of mind.... you'll have no problems getting the largest, biggest, most robust truck humanity has ever made. Keep the smaller one for running around.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Wilks

appreciate the real world response...after joining here and reading up some I figured I was going to need a 2500...now gas or diesel? lol

My two bits, If your wallet affords the diesel do it. You won't be sorry, even the big v* have nowhere near hte towing capability in real life. Maybe on paper but not on th real highway. As far as Diesel engine heavier and affecting GVW that a non factor. My 2014 Ram 3500 SRW 3.42 Rear Axle 6.7 diesel with Aisin 8' box has GVW of 4300 lbs. You won't need more than that Todays diesels play with most trailers, certainly one size you are describing.

[Camping family]

I would definitely go with a 3/4. 1/2 ton to me is a waist of money when it comes to using it to pull a camper. That being said an upgrade to a 1 ton cost wise is about 1,000.00. Reference to diesel save the 10,000 dollars go with gas. I have owned both. The new gas motors have plenty of power.

[DonP]

Originally Posted by Wilks

Looking to tap into the vast amounts of experience here on a recommendation on a tow vehicle to pull a Cougar 25RDS camper. Camper weighs 6340 unloaded....835 hitch weight. I originally was considering a GMC Sierra 1500 with max tow package but am reconsidering after reading some here.


what say youse?

Had a Cougar 22RBS @7000Lbs gross and a Sierra 1500. The Sierra did good (not great) @ sea level but was not so good climbing mountains. Purchased a 2018 Ram 2500 Cumins and towed the 22RBS couple of times (we were going to get a bigger trailer before the next season so the new truck was going to be a necessity). Ram was not top of the line but was $53000, the gas PU's we were looking at were close to the same price, so no brainer, got the Ram. It was the best move we made. I have 3 son-in-law's with trailers, 2 have GMC diesels and 1 has a ram. None of us would ever go back to a gas pick-up for towing.

"This is the way"

[aehjr]

As others have said, the diesel option will be more relaxing when you're pulling up mountain grades and long climbs. I'd also go with the biggest truck you can (F350/ 3500) so that you have the most payload available. I've upgraded my truck twice (Tundra/ F350 SRW/ F350 DRW) because we upgraded our trailer/ toy hauler twice.

[JRTJH]

There's something to be said about towing in the mountains with a diesel vs a gas truck. With the gas engine, you watch the tach climb to near the redline to maintain road speed with the transmission downshifting to a lower gear to keep the engine in the torque band as you push the accelerator further to the floor to maintain speed....

With a diesel, you watch the turbo boost climb while the truck maintains road speed with the engine turning the same 1800-2000 RPM. The transmission doesn't downshift, the engine doesn't "scream" and the rig will pass most anything in the right lane as you maintain the posted speed limit....

What's it worth is the question to ask yourself... For some, it's not worth the expense so a gas engine is the right choice for them... For others, it is worth the expense, so they choose the diesel and tow with that choice...

One is not "better than" or "more expensive than" or "costs more to maintain"... Those are "excuses" or probably better stated, "parts of the overall logic tree decision making process"... Whatever is your choice is "right for you" or you'll soon be spending more money to buy the "other one"...

There is no "this is the only choice" for anyone, regardless of what someone on this or any other forum might say.....

Choose wisely, it's YOUR MONEY !!!!!

[sourdough]

Gas vs diesel. The old saw. John brings up good points. The bottom line is what is the truck used for? A diesel needs to be used, to be needed...not a convenience. If you tow 5000 miles a year and run the highways unloaded for 15k miles more the diesel is a waste of money, unless, you have a load that requires it. With modern gas engines and drivetrains that weight number has continues to climb. Mountains and high altitude all the time or maybe hit a mountain every now and again? Is that worth 10-12k? Not in my book.

For reference my truck will take any 6% grade and never break 3500 rpm and keep the speed limit. It will hit around 4400 on some steeper climbs that are always short; that's not a problem for a gas engine. Engine winds up? Yes, but they're made to do it - certainly much better than the days when we hot rodded them and blew them up.

As anyone knows that has read my comments; a diesel has a place. Just because you have an RV, and in this case with a gvwr of 8800lbs., there is absolutely no reason to think the OP needs a diesel. It's about his needs, not what someone else likes. That trailer behind a new HD truck with an appropriate drivetrain is child's play. Unless he is going to be traveling the Rockies on 8% grades + at 10k ft. elevation the "must have" for a diesel doesn't exist. I can't imagine paying a $10-12k premium for a diesel to tow my trailer 5k miles a year knowing that the rest of the time I'm paying all that overkill to take home a gallon of milk...no compute, or to sit out in the field waiting for that next, maybe, towing trip. To each his own and each type of engine has their purpose...everyday driving is not what a diesel is for.

[Wilks]

Legitimate arguments from both sides....to be honest I would LOVE to have a diesel truck.... the ability to drag anything anywhere without thinking about it is tempting. The points SD makes are valid in my world....I DON'T plan on pulling 15000 miles a year and wouldn't drive a diesel everyday. It's obvious to me what my decision should be (gas) I just keep thinking 975 lb ft of torque.


Considering usage,fail points and maintenance costs of a diesel keeps me from pulling that trigger. Common sense doesn't win out for me often but I cant ignore the obvious here.



Thanks for all the considerations gentlemen.

[JRTJH]

Danny and Clif,

There is a "Whole 'nuther population" of truck buyers that you're leaving out of the equation.... That's the people who buy 2002 Thunderbirds with 16,000 miles on them, leave them under a car cover in the pole barn (except for a week or two in the summer or fall), the ones that buy a Shelby Mustang and plan to save it for their grandkid, but drive it 100 or 200 miles a year, and then there's the ones that want to retire and full time for a couple of years (maybe 5 years from now) and are currently towing that "8800 pound travel trailer" but want to full time in a 40' fifth wheel. Even though they "currently live in Kansas (FLAT)" their dream is to visit "everything in Colorado, Wyoming, Montana and Idaho as soon as they retire"... If they are "planning to better fit the diesel profile" then it may be beneficial to start looking now, rather than having the payments on a new truck that takes all their "travel money" leaving nothing for fuel, maintenance and payments.....

You're both right, diesel or gas, it's a personal choice and there are many who tow a pop up camper with a F350, not because they "need it" but rather because it's "their T-Bird or Shelby"....

If we all looked at the "cost is 10K or 12K more" as the motivation, then there would be no Rolls Royce, no BMW, no Mercedes, or no Ferrari. We'd all be driving a Galaxy 500 or a Chevy Biscayne... They're equipped to do the basics "just fine" so why spend the money for an Impala or an LTD or a BMW ???

There are some (maybe more than just a few) who don't "need a diesel" but simply "prefer a diesel" or "are curious about a diesel, so they buy one"....

Yep, at my "advanced age" I own that T-bird, have a candy apple red (Ford calls it Redfire Metallic) 2005 Mustang GT (both under wraps) a 3 wheel motorcycle that won't ever see rain, snow or dust, and a diesel that tows a 7200 pound (shipping weight) fifth wheel.

I'll admit, it's not for everyone, but "it's not worth 10K more" is not motivation for everyone.... Paying $20K for a 22 year old car is, for some, just another "notch in the bucket list".... For me, I "WANT" that "torque and performance whether I "NEED" it or not (sort of like the guy that WANTS leather, whether he NEEDS it or not)..... So, for me, just like I chose Sirius radio, I chose diesel over gas as a preference, not a need or a requirement....

That's what I was saying in my previous post. Not everyone buys "just what they need".... Thankfully, we don't live in a place where we aren't allowed to buy what we want and the only choice is a Lada or an Anadol, or worse yet, take the bus or train because it's the only choice.

[wiredgeorge]

I have an F350 diesel (proud of my 2006 6.0L) and bought it because I was looking for an affordable one ton (under $10K but paid $7K for mine). I only use it to drag the 7-8K lb gross weight 5th wheel of mine. I had a 96 F250 460cid that pulled it fine. I wanted a newer truck for the OBD connector and disk brakes on the rear. There were VERY few F350s in my price range that were gas and these were 5.4L which would not have made towing comfy imho.... We do have some pretty good grades in the Texas Hill Country and a 5.4L was no bueno. I almost bought a late 90s Chevy one ton that had the 427 cid gas but the header gaskets were leaking and it was in Oklahoma. Was really a lot nicer (higher end) truck than mine but I am better off with plastic seats and floor cover.

[sourdough]

I am/was trying to point out the OP, who is trying to figure out what truck he needs to tow his prospective trailer that a diesel nor one ton is required to do so. My comments were to highlight the considerations between the two since he was really wanting to keep a 1500.

It's totally true (and obvious) many want a diesel because they WANT it, not need it. I think that's fine, we each should be able to get what WE want. When someone else is asking for candid, unbiased opinions I think that's what they should get and not a person's personal preference unless it's stated it's a want and not a requirement. It's very easy to influence a person unfamiliar with them.

I'm a bang for the buck kind of guy for most things. My days of hot rods, 4x4s, bikes etc. are over and DW agrees - doc said skulls don't bust up like an eggshell twice very well. I do like my leather seats, I like to hear a throaty V8 at 3500rpm, I like giving money to my investment guy and I like my Cajun peanuts from Plains, GA. And, as I've mentioned, I'll probably buy a diesel in the coming year or so...just because. I've driven them and already know that I will not like putting my foot in it and all I get is 2200rpm rumbling along - but I can get to 100 pretty quick...just not in as much fashion or fanfare; and no, I'm not putting a 15" megaphone on the back so it will sound like it's doing something. But, as was mentioned, that 975lbs. of torque will be interesting - I hope.....may keep this truck just in case I won't put up with the diesel.