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Old 11-12-2020, 10:28 PM   #1
fjenson2
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outback ultralite 291 UBH

any info on the keystone outback ultralite 291 UBH ? we are looking to buy
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Old 11-13-2020, 05:34 AM   #2
LadyCash
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We just picked up our Outback Ultra-lite 260UML on 11/06/2020. We needed bigger coming from an 18’ as we have been living full time. We don’t plan on staying anywhere for long periods of cold weather (below 38F) but wanted a trailer with good factors for it. The Keystone Outback Ultra-lite has it.

* Heated enclosed underbelly w/ designated heating duct
* Welded aluminum walls with R-7 solid block foam insulation
* R-14 equivalent blanket insulation

I wanted a kitchen with counter to prep food and outlets. Hubs wanted sitting that was comfortable and didn’t put a creak in your neck to look at the tv. We both wanted the bedroom to have privacy (door or curtain) because one of us is a morning lark and one is a night owl. I HATE carpet because of allergies and we have dogs. The tracking in of small fine dirt is unbelievable. The Outback is very “kid and pet friendly” in that respect.

The light weight 5912# (with propane & water) NO cargo and cargo allowance of 1688# with 31.5’ tongue to bumper is a lot of real estate on wheels. We put our cargo in and freshwater then hit the ⚖️ scales, 7100#

After two days of looking and 5 dealerships there was only one TT I would have bought instead of the Outback. The only reason being it had insulation of R-40!!!

I wish I could give you more. I can only give you based on research and what our needs and wants were.
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Old 11-13-2020, 07:06 AM   #3
flybouy
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That 5,912 is the shipping weight. That does not include the propane (or bottles), battery, or water. That's the delivery weight and the moment it leaves the factory it will never see that weight again. I only say this for anyone new reading this that don't get misinformed.

Good that yop0u scaled it ready to go so you know where you're at. What trailer did you see with the R40 insulation rating?
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Old 11-13-2020, 09:53 AM   #4
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I have seen the R40 claim as well and believe it was floor only. Can't recall where but I have my doubts about any insulation claims on any trailer. I have been inside my slide wall and the wispy little bit of fiberglass wouldn't insulate squat and if one area lacks insulation, the whole trailer won't be insulated to much of any degree. I have a rear kitchen and there is no insulation at all under the rear wall kitchen cabinets; only a water pump, the wiring for my converter, etc.
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Old 11-13-2020, 11:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCash View Post
We just picked up our Outback Ultra-lite 260UML on 11/06/2020. We needed bigger coming from an 18’ as we have been living full time. We don’t plan on staying anywhere for long periods of cold weather (below 38F) but wanted a trailer with good factors for it. The Keystone Outback Ultra-lite has it.

* Heated enclosed underbelly w/ designated heating duct
* Welded aluminum walls with R-7 solid block foam insulation
* R-14 equivalent blanket insulation

I wanted a kitchen with counter to prep food and outlets. Hubs wanted sitting that was comfortable and didn’t put a creak in your neck to look at the tv. We both wanted the bedroom to have privacy (door or curtain) because one of us is a morning lark and one is a night owl. I HATE carpet because of allergies and we have dogs. The tracking in of small fine dirt is unbelievable. The Outback is very “kid and pet friendly” in that respect.

The light weight 5912# (with propane & water) NO cargo and cargo allowance of 1688# with 31.5’ tongue to bumper is a lot of real estate on wheels. We put our cargo in and freshwater then hit the ⚖️ scales, 7100#

After two days of looking and 5 dealerships there was only one TT I would have bought instead of the Outback. The only reason being it had insulation of R-40!!!

I wish I could give you more. I can only give you based on research and what our needs and wants were.
You might want to do a little bit of verification on your weights for that trailer. The 5912 is a "advertised shipping weight (trailers are NOT shipped with water in the tanks or with propane or a battery on the tongue). There is also a problem with the 1688 cargo allowance (if you do not add the weight of water/propane to the "dry weight")...

Here are two "weight certification labels" from two Outback 260UML models on dealer lots. Note one weighs 6120 with a 919 cargo capacity (fresh water tank full) and the other weighs 6160 with only 879 cargo capacity (also with water tank full)....

While you may have weighed your trailer at 7100 pounds, ready to travel with fresh water tank full) you would not have been able to load 1688 pounds of cargo along with the water weight in the FWT.

There's some "significant boasting" in Keystone's advertising not only in the way they publish "brochure weights" but also in how they rate the "R-value" of their insulation. It's impossible to have a "sidewall R-value of 7 when you consider that all of the window cutouts are "R-1" single pane windows and they "contribute to the sidewall structure. So, while the "hard wall part" may be R-7, overall, when the 4 walls are averaged together with windows and you calculate the reduced R value of the slide walls (1" thick, not 2" thick) the "true "R-value of the wall structure" is much closer to R3 or R4 than it is to R7.

I'm not "knocking your trailer" rather suggesting that the "advertising hype" is just that: hype.....
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Old 11-13-2020, 11:27 AM   #6
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The R values are very misleading. The advertising may list a "wall constructed with R value X" but as has been stated that's not really relevant. IF, and that's a big IF, you could find the true R value of the trailer it would be very low for the total R value would factor in ALL materials like windows, doors, ceiling material, roof Vents, skylights,

The single pane windows are about R 1 and the doors are not much more. If you want to amuse yourself download an IR app (most phones can use the app) and on a good cold day look at your camper or others with the infared (IR) app. They will look like a big red/orange blob from all the heat loss.
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Old 11-13-2020, 02:03 PM   #7
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I may be mistaken, but the only trailers I've seen advertising r40 were GD for the roof. I noted that when comparing models. The Keystone has r38 and as has been noted, by the time you factor it all together it was a moot point. Some other travel trailer my advertise r40 because I only looked into the brands I wanted but I'm not aware of any.
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Old 11-13-2020, 02:30 PM   #8
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Here is the Keystone video explaining Outback construction:


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Old 11-13-2020, 04:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
That 5,912 is the shipping weight. That does not include the propane (or bottles), battery, or water. That's the delivery weight and the moment it leaves the factory it will never see that weight again. I only say this for anyone new reading this that don't get misinformed.

Good that yop0u scaled it ready to go so you know where you're at. What trailer did you see with the R40 insulation rating?
Grand Design Imagine has R-40, & R-11 in it. Nice if you find yourself in cooler or colder climates. Sitting in cold 🥶 atm in Ohio for family business for few days. Tonight 26F. Last was 30F. The Outback is warmer than last trailer but it didn’t have ductwork for heat.
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Old 11-13-2020, 04:52 PM   #10
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After living in a tiny 18’ “all season” trailer that we stayed in mountains for 5 days and froze. The nice underbelly works though ����! I want to be warm when I have to be in the cold climates in colder seasons

I did homework, read reviews, looked at more TTs than I ever wanted to see to be sure this go around. We didn’t have the 18’ for even a year or even 6 months!!!! ���� Hubs had enough of the one person at a time, one pupper at a time, can I turn around??! ����*♀️����*♀️��

In the end it comes down to personal tastes. If my hubs could have talked me into another truck I would be in a 5th wheel forum ����*♀️ Personally, I don’t like 5th wheels. I looked and am not impressed. ��
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Old 11-13-2020, 04:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
You might want to do a little bit of verification on your weights for that trailer. The 5912 is a "advertised shipping weight (trailers are NOT shipped with water in the tanks or with propane or a battery on the tongue). There is also a problem with the 1688 cargo allowance (if you do not add the weight of water/propane to the "dry weight")...

Here are two "weight certification labels" from two Outback 260UML models on dealer lots. Note one weighs 6120 with a 919 cargo capacity (fresh water tank full) and the other weighs 6160 with only 879 cargo capacity (also with water tank full)....

While you may have weighed your trailer at 7100 pounds, ready to travel with fresh water tank full) you would not have been able to load 1688 pounds of cargo along with the water weight in the FWT.

There's some "significant boasting" in Keystone's advertising not only in the way they publish "brochure weights" but also in how they rate the "R-value" of their insulation. It's impossible to have a "sidewall R-value of 7 when you consider that all of the window cutouts are "R-1" single pane windows and they "contribute to the sidewall structure. So, while the "hard wall part" may be R-7, overall, when the 4 walls are averaged together with windows and you calculate the reduced R value of the slide walls (1" thick, not 2" thick) the "true "R-value of the wall structure" is much closer to R3 or R4 than it is to R7.

I'm not "knocking your trailer" rather suggesting that the "advertising hype" is just that: hype.....
I can verify what trailer weight at scale after we loaded that baby 🙃😉

I can only go by what brochure says. Damn... but I can get back in the kitchen unless you want to talk about computers or electric 😐
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:02 PM   #12
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You will need to understand RV "advertising" vs real life...sort of like towing abilities for trucks vs real life. R40 vs R38 or the other tiny differences you mention mean actually nothing in trying to "keep warm". Ducted underbelly? Yes.

You are enamored of your new trailer and I get it...and that's good. It is NOT a 4 season camper so you will have some issues you need to need to be aware of and address. It is most certainly an upgrade from your 18' trailer but still has many issues that need to be addressed for 4 season camping....and staying warm. Staying warm and staying away from weather related failures in an RV require much more than R ratings. We can help when you encounter those situations.
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Old 11-15-2020, 04:04 PM   #13
LadyCash
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
You will need to understand RV "advertising" vs real life...sort of like towing abilities for trucks vs real life. R40 vs R38 or the other tiny differences you mention mean actually nothing in trying to "keep warm". Ducted underbelly? Yes.

You are enamored of your new trailer and I get it...and that's good. It is NOT a 4 season camper so you will have some issues you need to need to be aware of and address. It is most certainly an upgrade from your 18' trailer but still has many issues that need to be addressed for 4 season camping....and staying warm. Staying warm and staying away from weather related failures in an RV require much more than R ratings. We can help when you encounter those situations.
I can’t hijack this thread... another place, another time
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