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Old 12-01-2013, 01:19 PM   #1
Poppy's 5th Wheel
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Wheel/Brake/Bearing Question

Hi All,

I was having some poor braking on our last trip so, after scolding myself for failing to adjust the brakes or lube the bearings since we got the trailer (probably 12,000 miles ago) I decided to adjust the brakes and lube the bearings (I have the E-Z Lube bearings).

I got the trailer jacked and I noticed a lot of play in the wheel. By play I mean that if you have your hands at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock you can get a considerable amount of wobble out of the wheel. I tried both wheels on the drivers side and they both had play.

I went ahead and lubed the rear wheel first and it took a whole 12.5 oz tube before I got fresh lube coming out. I had hoped that might solve my problem but, of course, no such luck.

I went ahead and adjusted the brakes on both DS wheels but didn't lube the second wheel yet until I find out what my problem is. OR, if it is normal on a trailer to have that much play.

So my questions are
1.) is there normally some play in the wheel on trailers? (I suspect not)
2.) if not, do you think my problem is that I need entirely new bearings? (I suspect so)

I race a corvette and if my wheel has play like that, I need to replace the whole hub assembly as they do not have serviceable bearings.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:28 PM   #2
JRTJH
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NO !!!! It is NOT normal to have any play in the wheel when you try to "shake" it up/down !!!! It sounds like you've either got a loose hub or worn bearings. Even if it is the hub that's loose, I'd guess that the bearings/races are shot by now. I'd suggest you get new bearings/races/grease seals for all 4 hubs (assuming you've got a tandem trailer) and replace all of them. I certainly wouldn't trust "wobbling" down the road on "iffy" bearings and "Chinese tires"

IMHO, you're playing with borrowed time before you lose a wheel (or worse) towing like you are. If it were mine, I wouldn't tow even a mile, until the bearings are replaced and the wheels don't wobble.
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Old 12-01-2013, 05:35 PM   #3
kampincrazy
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there was a song about this

"In the mirror I saw something cruise down the highway
I thought how it looked out of place
It was my tire, going like fire
I had a strange look on my face
I really don't know but, it looked like a donut
For a minute I thought I was dead
I started crying, I thought we were dying
I looked out the windshield and said

You picked a fine time to leave me, loose wheel"
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Old 12-01-2013, 06:35 PM   #4
ktmracer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
NO !!!! It is NOT normal to have any play in the wheel when you try to "shake" it up/down !!!! It sounds like you've either got a loose hub or worn bearings. Even if it is the hub that's loose, I'd guess that the bearings/races are shot by now. I'd suggest you get new bearings/races/grease seals for all 4 hubs (assuming you've got a tandem trailer) and replace all of them. I certainly wouldn't trust "wobbling" down the road on "iffy" bearings and "Chinese tires"

IMHO, you're playing with borrowed time before you lose a wheel (or worse) towing like you are. If it were mine, I wouldn't tow even a mile, until the bearings are replaced and the wheels don't wobble.

Not true for no play!. no radial play, yes, but there must be axial play. Trailers use tapered roller bearings and unlike ball bearings, Tapered roller bearing MUST have axial clearance or they will fail. However the amount of play you detect should be very very slight. Normally they call for about 0.002-0.005 axial play. So if you grab the wheel at 3 and 9 o'clock, (or 12 and 6 o'clock) and shake (twist) you should detect a very slight amount of "wiggle". It should be almost unnoticeable, but you MUST be able to detect some axial movement. If you can't, chances are the bearings are to tight and not adjusted properly. Normal tapered roller adjustment calls for torquing the bearing down to a specifed torque to seat the bearings, then loosening it, and tightening it to a low torque (10lb/ft or so), then backing off the nut till the next slot lines up with a cotter pin, or something similar. And then checking for the actual axial play vs. given tolerance. (this last step is seldom done IMHO, most of the time, just checking to see there is play).

Once you've checked a known good wheel with properly adjusted tapered roller bearings, you'll get a feel for what I described. A causal tug on the wheels with a properly adjusted bearing and you'd say "no play".

an obvious "clunk" or large amount of play does indicate either improper bearing adjustment or impending or actual bearing failure. From your description, I'd say this is the condition your describing.

And with tapered roller bearings you should not be able to move the wheel in a pure vertical or horizontal plane. e.g. straight up and down or side to side, just in and out which is what you are detecting when you grab at 3 and 9 o'clock and shake in with one side, out with the other.
Now ball bearings are completely different. In that case there should be absolutely no play. They are designed to run with no axial or radial runnout.
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmracer View Post
.... A causal tug on the wheels with a properly adjusted bearing and you'd say "no play"...

an obvious "clunk" or large amount of play does indicate either improper bearing adjustment or impending or actual bearing failure. From your description, I'd say this is the condition your describing....
The bearings should spin freely and, as you say, when you grab the wheel, with a properly adjusted bearing set, you should perceive no play.

I'd say that when properly adjusted, the 0.005" movement in a 15" wheel/tire assembly is "imperceptible" to the "shadetree mechanic" on his RV. Certainly, the "considerable amount of wobble" described by Poppy is without question, a "too loose" or "damaged" bearing set. To have this condition on both hubs on the same side of an RV is a disaster in the making.
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
The bearings should spin freely and, as you say, when you grab the wheel, with a properly adjusted bearing set, you should perceive no play.

I'd say that when properly adjusted, the 0.005" movement in a 15" wheel/tire assembly is "imperceptible" to the "shadetree mechanic" on his RV. Certainly, the "considerable amount of wobble" described by Poppy is without question, a "too loose" or "damaged" bearing set. To have this condition on both hubs on the same side of an RV is a disaster in the making.


Agreed. I just didn't want someone to go out and wrench down on the bearings to make sure there was no play and then end up with a bearing failure from improper tapered roller bearing adjustment.

A 0.005 axial play at the bearing is enough that you can feel play in the wheel if you grab it by the sides of the tire and twist. You can detect it, more from a slight "click" and very slight rocking, but that's about it. I agree, if you aren't paying attention, or just push on the tire you likely won't notice movement. Anything more than that should result in further inspection!
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:20 AM   #7
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Thanks all. The trailer was already scheduled to go in to the shop for a problem with the main slide so I think I will just have them check all 4 wheels and be done with it. We go away for New Years and I won't have an open weekend between now and then to get it done myself.

Paul
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:15 PM   #8
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Good move

I do believe you have made the prudent choice here. I lubed ours at the beginning of last year and I must say, I did not feel what you are describing at all. That amount of movement must be allowing significant friction and wear, I'm surprised you did not notice extreme heat during towing. I would guess we have towed about 12-15K since picking the unit up in Fall of 2010. Again, I pumped through the Valvoline Red grease last Spring and will do it again before next season using the EZ-Lube. My plan is to bring it in to a dealer for brake / axle bearing service at 5yrs, it's not cheap, believe it's up to about $800+ now.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:13 PM   #9
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I went through all 6 wheels. 3 had bad grease seals so the brakes had grease on them. my bearings were ok I bought good seals(national) they were expensive but x times better than the crappy standard seals. I would recommend national bearings too at least Taiwan or Japanese made. Chinese bearings are so cheaply made from soft steel
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Old 12-07-2013, 04:49 PM   #10
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Poppy, I hope your RV repair shop is close. I wouldn't tow more than a mile or two with bearings like that.
Be careful. Go slow.
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